Thread: Spielman likes Claborne over Kalil?

Originally Posted by Jarlvik

Most of what I'm hearing about Kalil is that he's the best OT in the draft. Very few are saying "franchise", "elite", "can't miss"...rather they are saying "solid", "room for improvement", "needs to develop as a run blocker".
Fast and athletic, but doesn't rate nearly as high as Thomas or Long.
I love all the speculation because there are some solid options out there.
Claiborn has some "holes" too. Blackmon is no guarantee. 5 years ago the Lions would have given their entire draft for him, because, as we all know, top rated WR's are "bank".
BPA, trade down, I just don't care. As long as we get more than 2 starters out this this frigin' draft.

Lets stop the madness
"The most complete tackle I have evaluated in my time scouting prospects, Kalil has the athleticism to excel as a pass-blocker and the mean streak to be a force in the running game."

-Todd McShay -

2012 NFL Mock Draft - Projecting the first two rounds - ESPN

I think people are overlooking the impact Safety's have with the Cover 2. A blue chip caliber Safety is more valuable than a blue chip Cornerback.

I bet if you went back and watched video of all the touchdown's given up I bet around 70% was due to the Safety being out of position leaving the Cornerback out to dry.

Originally Posted by Freakout

I think people are overlooking the impact Safety's have with the Cover 2. A blue chip caliber Safety is more valuable than a blue chip Cornerback.

I bet if you went back and watched video of all the touchdown's given up I bet around 70% was due to the Safety being out of position leaving the Cornerback out to dry.

Thats why I would love to see Barron available at the top of the 2n round

Originally Posted by bleedpurple

It doesn't make sense to pass on a franchise LT

We just gave our last franchise LT away.

... all those guys you mentioned are either late draft picks or bumbs... if we are going to have any chance on offense.. it will involve Ponder not running for his life...

If we had a deep drop offense I would agree with you but we are running a short pass, 2 TE offense. Things develop faster and there are TE's and FB's galore to help out with the pass protection so a franchise LT is less important.A good one- yes.

as far as a CB... we don't need an elite CB in a cover-2 scheme... all they have to do is play their zones, maybe do a little press coverage, release to the safety and sit in their zone... LT's are more valuable than CB's anyway..

That is funny. If that is your metric it can also be said we don't need a franchise LT because we run a WCO and all they need to do is deflect the DE a bit until the QB gets rid of the ball, which should be in less than 3 seconds at most and often half that time.

.. that's why you see tons of them on the open market but not elite franchise LT's...

You see them on the market only because the teams cannot afford to pay what an elite CB can command so teams end up losing them. How many elite CB's leave from teams because the coaches didn't think they really wanted them and felt they would do better with a less talented replacement?

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

We just gave our last franchise LT away.



If we had a deep drop offense I would agree with you but we are running a short pass, 2 TE offense. Things develop faster and there are TE's and FB's galore to help out with the pass protection so a franchise LT is less important.A good one- yes.



That is funny. If that is your metric it can also be said we don't need a franchise LT because we run a WCO and all they need to do is deflect the DE a bit until the QB gets rid of the ball, which should be in less than 3 seconds at most and often half that time.





You see them on the market only because the teams cannot afford to pay what an elite CB can command so teams end up losing them. How many elite CB's leave from teams because the coaches didn't think they really wanted them and felt they would do better with a less talented replacement?

Exactly...Thats why Asomugha was the top prospect of all positions last season. Oline is important dont get me wrong, but Top CBs and WRs are always the first players signed.

For those who are bitching about the LT and RT maybe at least look at this site:
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 OFFENSIVE LINES

They graded out the lines and individual position play for the whole league and we graded out at 18, only 2 behind GB and by their metrics the LT and RT were right at mid pack while the RG and LG were right near the bottom.

So if we want to improve the OL play then do as i said and move back from 3 to a spot we can take Decastro and then go get Martin at the back end of the 1st and we will be in better shape overall than taking the T at the 3 spot.

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

For those who are bitching about the LT and RT maybe at least look at this site:
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 OFFENSIVE LINES

They graded out the lines and individual position play for the whole league and we graded out at 18, only 2 behind GB and by their metrics the LT and RT were right at mid pack while the RG and LG were right near the bottom.

So if we want to improve the OL play then do as i said and move back from 3 to a spot we can take Decastro and then go get Martin at the back end of the 1st and we will be in better shape overall than taking the T at the 3 spot.

WOW! Those guys get into it!!

Actually, in the running game play-by-play breakdown, only runs off Right Tackle are doing well, 3rd in the league. What do ya know? The Load would appear to be good at something!? Anybody know off hand if Jimmy K lined up on the left or right more often...?

BUT, The rest is mid to ugly! Running off left end came in 28th in the league, Left Tackle and Mid/Guard at 16th, and out around Right End ranked 19th in Adjusted Line Yards. Ick! Our running backs are working way too hard to stay above average! Adding an upgrade at LT and moving Charlie inside is a must! Seems obvious it would help the run game as much as the passing game.

But I'm not saying we have to go Kalil. I think there's still going to be some pretty talented Run Blocker LTs available at the top of the 2nd, and a true threat to catch and score deep would really help give the rest of our dink-n-dunk offense some space to work!

Additionally, as far as a best bang for your buck, to excite a bummed franchise with no home, type of guy, the playmaker at WR is going to help the most, both on-field with our QB development and big play potential, but off field selling jerseys and maybe, more importantly, hope!

EeeeOOOOOUUUW!!! AND LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN ADJUSTED SACK RATE!!!!!

OUCH!!

please...do...something!

Furthermore... FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 WIDE RECEIVERS

The simple version: DYAR means a wide receiver with more total value. DVOA means a wide receiver with more value per play.

So, in their crazy in-depth ranking of total value, of the 92 WRs that had 50 or more passes thrown their way, we had 3. Aromashadu was the 92nd, and only caught 31% of passes, basically of all the teams' third on the depth chart WRs in the NFL, he was last. Jenkins came in at 49, right in the middle of the pack of 2nd WRs. Harvin was 28th, which would be great production from a no.2, but is bottom of the pack for a no.1 Wideout.

We need a no.1 guy because of how much it improves the rest of our depth, upgrade at the top and every body else is suddenly above average for their level of reps & production. Pretty sure, the chance of getting a real no.1 threat in the 2nd is greatly diminished from the top of the first.

I guess, either way, LT then WR or vice versa, cuz if we don't get Ponder and Webb some help at OL AND WR, they will remain near the bottom and, eventually, lose whatever confidence they might have entered the league with.

Originally Posted by mountainviking

Furthermore... FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 WIDE RECEIVERS



So, in their crazy in-depth ranking of total value, of the 92 WRs that had 50 or more passes thrown their way, we had 3. Aromashadu was the 92nd, and only caught 31% of passes, basically of all the teams' third on the depth chart WRs in the NFL, he was last. Jenkins came in at 49, right in the middle of the pack of 2nd WRs. Harvin was 28th, which would be great production from a no.2, but is bottom of the pack for a no.1 Wideout.

We need a no.1 guy because of how much it improves the rest of our depth, upgrade at the top and every body else is suddenly above average for their level of reps & production. Pretty sure, the chance of getting a real no.1 threat in the 2nd is greatly diminished from the top of the first.

I guess, either way, LT then WR or vice versa, cuz if we don't get Ponder and Webb some help at OL AND WR, they will remain near the bottom and, eventually, lose whatever confidence they might have entered the league with.

So maybe you would be interested in the pass defense ranking before you throw claiborne under the bus.


FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

We ranked 9 against the rush and 32nd against the pass and 32nd when facing a #1 WR.

But I guess kalil will fix that lol.