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  1. #21
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    He was drafted after both Gabbert and locker. After seeing all 3 play I would say we got the best of the three at a later pick so if Ponder was a reach, what would you call Gabby and Locker?
    they were all over drafted... we would have been better off taking Fairley somebody else... We had Joe Webb we could have relied on

  2. #22
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    Gotta go LT over CB. We got nothing at LT. We still have Winny and Cook at CB. Also, big men who can move are way more rare than quick, little guys who can run. But, the biggest reason is our two young QBs!

    We are rebuilding. We've got a 2nd and 3rd year QB who need all the help you can give them. I say, we let the defense slide til later rounds and/or next year and start building Chemistry AND Consistency on offense first. Our defense still holds its own while our offense has struggled 5 of the past 6 years.

    1st round Kalil
    2nd round Best deep-threat WR available...at this point, I'd even give up a 4th or maybe even our 3rd to move that 2nd back into the first if it'll land Mike Floyd or Stephen Hill.

    (Tho, I'd have given that 3rd up in a heartbeat to bring DeMeco Ryans in at MLB! Stupid Texans shoulda shopped a bit more!!)
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  3. #23
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    Only this team would blow this pick. Sorry while Claiborne is a good corner, he will not be an elite CB. Even if he is....we don't need a starter at Cb this year. We need a starter at LT last week. My god. You can finds corners, you can't find elite tackles. Why, why, why did I find myself drawn to the Vikings.
    This team is cursed and the curse is stupidity.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    So what you're saying is they are finally going after a CB that can play our style of zone defense, but if we get him, they plan on going away from that zone defense & playing man to man?
    No, but I am not surprised that you couldn't read it in the proper context. I have no way to help you.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    The one area that does concern me about Claiborne is his ability to play physical with big recievers and in run defense. Both very important in our division and our primarily cover 2 defense. I have not heard that Frazier wants to run more man-to-man as you state, I actually heard the exact opposite and was part of the reason why Pagac is no longer DC, but rather one of his Tampa 2 disciples.

    From KFFL:


    That being said, I think he is the best cover corner in the draft, and providing our coaching staff doesn't try to play to his weaknesses, he should be a huge upgrade to our secondary.

    But take Kalil
    You can play the weakness game with any player.

    Kalilís Weaknesses (in buzzwords):
    • Only an adequate run blocker
    • Commonly does not finish run blocks
    • Lacks elite lower body strength
    • Not an instinctive run blocker
    • Not considered to have elite lateral agility, which may make him susceptible to speed rushers and secondary pass rush moves at the NFL level. Has added weight since the end of his collegiate career, but may be a little light for a left tackle even at his current 306 pounds.

  6. #26
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    .we don't need a starter at Cb this year.




    You can finds corners, you can't find elite tackles.
    So you are using corners in general but limiting the LT's to elite ones? Way to tweak a point to fit your thinly based argument.


    3 things are wrong with your point.
    1) Elite LT's don't transfer teams as often because they are not in as high of a demand so teams are able to sign them more often and still stay in the cap.

    2) Elite CB's leave more often in FA because they have a higher premium than tackles and teams are more willing to break the bank to get them because they know they have a much greater impact on the success of the team than a LT does.

    3) There are more so called franchise LT's drafted year over year than CB's because they have a more narrowly defined role that is easier to fill than an elite CB. That is why you can compare a guy like Kalil to recently drafted LT's like Long, Ferguson, Thomas etc that come out nearly every year but when the debate shifts to elite CB's they have to harken back nearly 30 years and pull up names like Woodson, Green,Sanders etc. The elite ones just don't come around that often and even the ones that are not necessarily HOF material

  7. #27
    CPonderFan is offline Rookie
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    I personally could see this senario playing out...Miami needs a QB and could be hot for Tannenhill. The browns could possibly draft a QB at #4 (I think they will draft Richardson) but does Miami want to take that chance? They have been trying to land a Franchise QB for years. I think there could be a chance that MN deals #3 to Miami and Tannenhill is taken for the 3rd QB in 3 picks. Then MN ends up with the 8th pick. The Browns take Richardson, Tampa takes Mo Claiborne at #5, The Rams take Blackmon at #6, Jacksonville takes Coples at #7 and MN is left taking OT Rieff.....

    With that move we would probably get a few other solid picks...some this year, some next year...maybe the year after that.


    I like this move
    None

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So you are using corners in general but limiting the LT's to elite ones? Way to tweak a point to fit your thinly based argument.
    No!!!!!
    Try and follow me. We have Cook and Winny. Allen is a good Nickel (outside in our system) Cb. I would love to bring in a new guy to in the 2nd or 3rd to start over Allen and fill in for Whinny when is annual injury happens. The only issues with this is
    1) No one has said Claiborne has the ability to be an elite CB in this league. I have heard very good to great...not elite.
    2. We are still a cover 2 team. Ignore the "we will play more man this season talk." At the end of the day we will be in a defense where the guys elite cover skills won't be used. It's like having a power back in an Andy Reid defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    3 things are wrong with your point.
    1) Elite LT's don't transfer teams as often because they are not in as high of a demand so teams are able to sign them more often and still stay in the cap.
    Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
    Elite LTs don't change teams that often because teams know their worth and they are extended and locked up regardless of price. What is easier to find: Fast/quick small guys or Agile/Strong Big guys?
    Cbs can be let go because there are a ton of guys out there with quick feet and fluid hips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    2) Elite CB's leave more often in FA because they have a higher premium than tackles and teams are more willing to break the bank to get them because they know they have a much greater impact on the success of the team than a LT does.
    That makes no sense. If teams are more willing to break the bank. Why wouldn't they( the other team) keep them. The fact is Cbs are easier to replace. You can find a starting caliber CB in the 2nd round. Most teams prefer to have a LT drafted in the 1st round. Heck most tackles that are drafted after the 1st rounds are drafted to be RTs and stay there or get moved to the LT when it is discovered they have the talent to play LT.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    3) There are more so called franchise LT's drafted year over year than CB's because they have a more narrowly defined role that is easier to fill than an elite CB. That is why you can compare a guy like Kalil to recently drafted LT's like Long, Ferguson, Thomas etc that come out nearly every year but when the debate shifts to elite CB's they have to harken back nearly 30 years and pull up names like Woodson, Green,Sanders etc. The elite ones just don't come around that often and even the ones that are not necessarily HOF material
    I see where you are going here...but that makes my point. Clairboure isn't an elite player. If you have a chance to draft an Elite player vs. a Great one. You take the Elite player. Most Cbs drafted in the first round require a year to get acclimated to the league. Revis had an above average rookie year but most of those other guys don't really do much as a Rookie.

    2011 - Peterson
    2010 - Haden
    2009 - Jenkins
    2008 - McKelvin
    2007 - Revis

    Why draft a guy whose position is being nerfed by the league and the defense you run?
    Lastly.... Would you rather have:
    Khalil & Janoris Jenkins/Alfonzo Dennard
    or
    Morris Claiborne & Mike Adams/Zebrie Sanders
    The choice is easy.

  9. #29
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    The choice is easy but it doesn't mean your choice is the right one......

    First off- You have zero idea of who will or will not be elite so your point is based on faulty data. I am not contending Claiborne will be the next Sanders but then again it is just as likely as thinking Kalil will be the next munoz.

    Point blank the LT position is over-hyped and in our division it is far less important than the CB position

    What I would take is Claiborne-Martin-Jeffrey. We can do that by trading back a few spots and aquiring a few extra picks, then bundling to move back up. That is a far stronger overall group than Kalil and any other 2 players we can get with our available picks.

    And just how the hell is it going to be any different with Kalil in terms of production in the first year anyway? We will have 3 new starters on the OL, a shitty OL coach and a suspect blocking scheme. To think he is going to singlehandedly change any of that is a fantasy. He plays only in one single spot on the field and even if he is every bit the player you dream he is, the pressure we are facing is coming from a lot more locations than directly over the LT. Looking at GB and Detroit, they bring more pressure from our right side of the line and Kalil will do nothing for that pressure.

    We need to get skill players and that means we need to look at
    QB
    WR
    DE
    CB.

    Those are the 4 core positions on the team that need star players. If you have those filled then draft a LT in the 12-20 spot and move on with it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    No, but I am not surprised that you couldn't read it in the proper context. I have no way to help you.
    I read it in the proper context, I'll explain it so an average rube like yourself can get it.

    For years we've taken players that could play well man-to-man & tried to force them to play zone defense, which they played worse at.

    Now, they may draft a DB that actually plays well at zone defense, but Frazier is indicating he'd like to play more man-to-man.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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