Spielman likes Claborne over Kalil?

**bleedpurple** · 03-20-2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by singersp

Either Spielman just doesn't get it or he believes Ponder is an elite, all-pro caliber QB, which explains the reach for him in the 1st a year ago.

well he did over-draft him in the first round last year... so that makes sense...

**bleedpurple** · 03-20-2012, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Anderson

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, I can't help but disagree with the finer points.

Claiborne is a better cover guy than Peterson is. He's not the same type of athlete or playmaker, but to say he doesn't hold a candle to him really isn't fair. There's a reason the guy is going to go top 5 in the draft. And AJ Green stronger than Blackmon? Have you seen AJ Green? The guy is one of the skinnier players in the league.

AJ Green was a better prospect though.. but your right... I think blackmon will be good though.. but kinda reminds me of Mike Williams coming out of USC.. big and questionable speed... better work ethic...

You have to take Khalil.. if you overdraft a qb and have a blue chip prospect sitting there at #3 you take him... not because he is that good, but bc you protect your other two biggest investments... AP and Ponder....

I'm not mad at the claiborne pick, but yu can't take a CB over a LT even when both are in need... Besides are Secondary is soo far off i doubt he makes a difference... and we've neglected the OLine since childress was a rookie head coach....

If we had claimed Jared Gaither off waivers last year and re-signed him.. then fine but not now...

Additionally and more importantly, we don't need elite corners to play the cover-2 defense... we can find serviceable cb's later on in the draft...

WAIT... scratch that... a competent GM could find value at cb in the later rounds...

basically, outside of our first 2 picks... we have no hope...lol....

**Purple Floyd** · 03-20-2012, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by bleedpurple

well he did over-draft him in the first round last year... so that makes sense...

He was drafted after both Gabbert and locker. After seeing all 3 play I would say we got the best of the three at a later pick so if Ponder was a reach, what would you call Gabby and Locker?

**Purple Floyd** · 03-20-2012, 08:46 PM

I understand the average rubes desire to draft a top LT. Heck, I have been after the team to upgrade the OL myself for as long as anyone. But in this draft at this spot Claiborne is the best player for us to take. And he is the best defensive player on the board.

We had a historically bad secondary last season and the defense was limited by the team not having the talent to play man coverage when the offense we faced dictated we needed to. Frazier has also stated that they want to run less zone and more man defense this year. There is no player we can take in the draft that will be a better man coverage CB than Claiborne and there is no CB in FA that fits into our budget that can do what he will be able to do.

Yes, having an elite LT would be nice, but if you look at our division we really don't have any young, elite RDE's that even call for a player like Kalil to go against. The best RDE in the division is on our team and while Peppers is a great RDE he is getting up there in age as is Vanden Bosch. The packers RDE is probably the weak link on their line and between the Lions and Packers we will see more pressure from center to the right side of our line than center left.

However, looking at the division we face 3 elite QB's and 3 very good to elite WR groups with the addition of Marshall in Chicago. There is no way we can improve our team than to bring in an elite CB that can lock down a guy like Marshall or Johnson or Cobb/Nelson and make them irrelevant.

Giving the offense more turnovers and better field position will also help Ponder and the offense more than having an elite LT will. And Claiborne can also return punts which can give the offense better field position and limit the pressure defenses can apply which will help Ponder also.

So in the end i am strongly in favor of drafting Claiborne if we stay at 3. ( I would prefer us to trade back and get extra picks personally) I want a better LT but I am not convinced we cannot get a LT that can do the job unless we draft one in the top 3. I think Martin can be the answer and he may slip to the late 1st or early second.

**Purple Floyd** · 03-20-2012, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by tastywaves

Looks like Spielman and PF are seeing eye to eye again

I would prefer Kalil if we stay at #3, but wouldn't be disappointed with Claiborne. Blackmon I would put behind both of them, although he could end up being the most productive of the lot. Hard to say.

Actually I have been on the Claiborne platform for a long time. The rest of the talking heads are finally starting to see the light.

**singersp** · 03-20-2012, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by NodakPaul

lol.

....if Spielman could somehow pull off a trade for the #3 pick and still get Claborne as a result... I would be pretty impressed.

Be careful what you wish for. Spielman could pull off "The Trade" Part 2, reminiscent of Mike Lynn.

Isn't Spielman the first GM we've had since Lynn?

**Formo** · 03-21-2012, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

I understand the average rubes desire to draft a top LT. Heck, I have been after the team to upgrade the OL myself for as long as anyone. But in this draft at this spot Claiborne is the best player for us to take. And he is the best defensive player on the board.

We had a historically bad secondary last season and the defense was limited by the team not having the talent to play man coverage when the offense we faced dictated we needed to. Frazier has also stated that they want to run less zone and more man defense this year. There is no player we can take in the draft that will be a better man coverage CB than Claiborne and there is no CB in FA that fits into our budget that can do what he will be able to do.

Yes, having an elite LT would be nice, but if you look at our division we really don't have any young, elite RDE's that even call for a player like Kalil to go against. The best RDE in the division is on our team and while Peppers is a great RDE he is getting up there in age as is Vanden Bosch. The packers RDE is probably the weak link on their line and between the Lions and Packers we will see more pressure from center to the right side of our line than center left.

However, looking at the division we face 3 elite QB's and 3 very good to elite WR groups with the addition of Marshall in Chicago. There is no way we can improve our team than to bring in an elite CB that can lock down a guy like Marshall or Johnson or Cobb/Nelson and make them irrelevant.

Giving the offense more turnovers and better field position will also help Ponder and the offense more than having an elite LT will. And Claiborne can also return punts which can give the offense better field position and limit the pressure defenses can apply which will help Ponder also.

So in the end i am strongly in favor of drafting Claiborne if we stay at 3. ( I would prefer us to trade back and get extra picks personally) I want a better LT but I am not convinced we cannot get a LT that can do the job unless we draft one in the top 3. I think Martin can be the answer and he may slip to the late 1st or early second.

I would love Claiborne in purple..

IF the Vikes ditch the zone-only Tampa2.

**Purple Floyd** · 03-21-2012, 07:21 AM

Frazier has already come out and said that they plan to play more man coverage packages if they can get the players to run it.

Incidentally, if anyone cares to go back and look at the defense that Claiborne actually played in at LSU you would see that he played a great deal of zone coverage and he did extremely well when he was in it.

The idea that he cannot be used in zone is a myth and a misrepresentation. The reason we sucked in zone is because the CB's lacked the footwork and closing speed to shrink the size of the zones the WR's operated in. With his speed and ability the zones are going to be much smaller and lead to a lower completion percentage and higher rate of turnovers because the QB's margin for error is lower.

**singersp** · 03-21-2012, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

Frazier has already come out and said that they plan to play more man coverage packages if they can get the players to run it.

Incidentally, if anyone cares to go back and look at the defense that Claiborne actually played in at LSU you would see that he played a great deal of zone coverage and he did extremely well when he was in it.

The idea that he cannot be used in zone is a myth and a misrepresentation. The reason we sucked in zone is because the CB's lacked the footwork and closing speed to shrink the size of the zones the WR's operated in. With his speed and ability the zones are going to be much smaller and lead to a lower completion percentage and higher rate of turnovers because the QB's margin for error is lower.

So what you're saying is they are finally going after a CB that can play our style of zone defense, but if we get him, they plan on going away from that zone defense & playing man to man?

**tastywaves** · 03-21-2012, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

Frazier has already come out and said that they plan to play more man coverage packages if they can get the players to run it.

Incidentally, if anyone cares to go back and look at the defense that Claiborne actually played in at LSU you would see that he played a great deal of zone coverage and he did extremely well when he was in it.

The idea that he cannot be used in zone is a myth and a misrepresentation. The reason we sucked in zone is because the CB's lacked the footwork and closing speed to shrink the size of the zones the WR's operated in. With his speed and ability the zones are going to be much smaller and lead to a lower completion percentage and higher rate of turnovers because the QB's margin for error is lower.

The one area that does concern me about Claiborne is his ability to play physical with big recievers and in run defense. Both very important in our division and our primarily cover 2 defense. I have not heard that Frazier wants to run more man-to-man as you state, I actually heard the exact opposite and was part of the reason why Pagac is no longer DC, but rather one of his Tampa 2 disciples.

From KFFL:

Weaknesses

Relies too much on athleticism
Poor tackling technique
A bit undersized at 5-foot-11, 188 pounds
Struggles in zone coverage
Gambles too much
Tends to get lazy in his technique and cannot allow that to happen in the NFL, where competition is playing at a higher level - high backpedal, sloppy footwork at times
Doesn't usually get a good jam at the line - may have problems against physical NFL receivers

Read more: 2012 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU :: KFFL - Article

That being said, I think he is the best cover corner in the draft, and providing our coaching staff doesn't try to play to his weaknesses, he should be a huge upgrade to our secondary.

But take Kalil