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  1. #121
    BBQ Platypus's Avatar
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    As for the broader issue, I would be happy if they drafted either Kalil or Claiborne. Both are excellent players who would help the team out a lot at a position of need. You could make a case for either as the BPA (though a slightly stronger case for Kalil in my admittedly non-expert opinion). The Wonderlic isn't a problem - Claiborne went to LSU, we already know he's dumb. Hasn't stopped him so far. Besides, he's going to be a starting CB (in a Cover 2, no less), not a QB.

    I'd have a bit of a problem (not a huge one, but a bit of one) if they took Blackmon. It's not that he isn't good, but there seems to be a guy like him in every draft. There's nothing especially esoteric about him, and it's not like it's a position that absolutely can't be filled in later rounds (and later drafts - it's going to take more than one to right this ship). Keep in mind that Greg Jennings went in the second round while Wes Welker and Victor Cruz weren't drafted at all. It's not like we're missing out on our last chance if we don't take him in the first.

    Last year, 19 receivers had 1000-yard seasons and 30 had 900-yard seasons. Having good weapons for your QB is important, but it's not like good receivers are especially hard to find in today's league. They don't need to prototype guys that are tall, handsy, AND fast anymore - a wider range of receivers can be successful with the current pro-offense rules in play. In this sort of climate, it's a lot easier for a receiver to "make it" in this league.
    Last edited by BBQ Platypus; 04-03-2012 at 09:16 PM.


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  2. #122
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    I think people are missing the boat a lil on Blackmon. To me, there's NO DOUBT that he's right up there as far as being a fit for us in talent and need with the other two options at pick #3, and here's why:

    SOOOOO, many of these badass WRs have Diva and/or behavior issues! Rarely do you see a star at that position who has the work-ethic, cool demeanor, and decision making to stay out of trouble and be the best they can be like Calvin Johnson. Blackmon is that guy. The intangibles are there, right along side top end speed, good size, great strength and balance, and loads of production on tape to back it up!

    And don't give me this poor Tom Brady and Drew Brees crapola!!!

    They've both been surrounded by good players for pretty much their entire careers! Brady had a WR that set the record for TDs, and now, a TE set that record. He's also got the best slot guy in the biz, and has always had a good defense and OL to back him up too. Same with the Saints...sure, there's not one standout guy, there's like 6 of them: Colston, Meachum, Henderson, Sproles, Bush, Jimmy Graham, etc! There's a lot of early picks there, and injury aside, any one of those guys would be an upgrade to our recieving talent!

    ITs a TEAM GAME! Your QB makes your OL look good and vice versa! Your WRs make your QB look good and vice versa! It goes both ways or it most likely goes down the toilet. Even Peyton Manning has had a bevy of first round picks around him: Marvin Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Addai, Gonzales, Don Brown and 2 of the past three years a first round pick on OL!!

    We need, not necessarily in order, LT, deep-threat WR, multiple Ss and CBs, a MLB, a "WarPig" DT, and a new stadium! We can't fill all those holes in one draft. We're devoping 2 young QBs.

    I just happen to think our old-school, smash-mouth team might like the elite WR first, run blocking LT second, more than an elite athletic but undersized run blocker LT first with more of a developmental with plenty potential WR second...

    But we won't know for sure til April 27th, after the first 3 rounds are in the books.
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  3. #123
    seaniemck7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    No, what you are saying is the top 5 important key players on a team in your opinion are;

    1. QB
    2. LT
    3. DE/CB (DE in C-2 type teams, CB in man-press type teams)
    4. CB/DE (Flop with #3 by type of D you play)
    5. CB

    And apparently we are supposed to build our team around CB's in slots 3, 4 & 5 before even considering a WR, TE or RB.

    Did you want me to ask Tom, Brees & Favre how lucky they were that their GM's built their teams around DE's & CB's before a WR?

    While I'm at it do you want me to ask them how many SuperBowls they think they would have won if only they had Bernard Berrian, Troy Williamson, Devin Aromashodu & Greg Camarillo instead of Welker, Moss, Branch, Driver, Freeman, Sharpe, Lofton or Colston?

    Exactly where after punter do you rank the need for solid WR's? TE'S? RB's?

    BTW, CB's & DE's do not protect the QB.

    Also to note: Christian Ponder needs to perform a hell of a lot better before he can even wash the jocks of Brady, Brees & Favre.

    A QB, with all the time in the world, with the likes of Berrian or Williamson will gain you nothing.
    First of all CBs are not listed in slots 3, 4 and 5. DE takes one of those slots. I donít know who would argue that QB is the most important position on field. Protecting the QB is number one priority. His blindside is where he most vulnerable and the LT is usually going against the one of the defenses best athletes. That brings us to position 3: DE. Rushing the passer and being a disruptive force in the backfield is a great foundation to build a defense. 2 CBs that can cover and a stud DE, you would have to be a moron not to be able to coach up a top 10 defensive unit (unless of course your name is Frazier and run a C-2)Ö Well I am being a bit dramatic in that last statement, but still if I had to build a team from scratch, I am gonna be looking for those top 5 positions as my highest priorities. The one thing I did like about Chillyís early philosophy was to build and win in the trenches.

    A WR can put an already good team over the top. A shitty team with an awesome WR is still a shitty team. Look at Brandon Marshall and Miami. He is a stud, and they did pretty much dick with him around. Moss- best in the game- heads to Oakland where they continue to suck. If I could choose any WR in the league right now, I would take Fitzgerald over any other wide out on my team. Yet the year after Kurt retired, he wasnít doing much carrying of the offense.
    Tom, Brees and Favre have had for the most part average to above average talent at WR. You can come at me with how sucky Berrian and Williamson were compared to others in the league, but that comment is misguided. Berriand and Troy are EXACTLY the products of what you are asking our folks to do: Draft a WR at #1 or go get a high priced WR free agent. Donít blame me for the fact that we cannot scout WR talent worth a shit.

    Oh and by the way wtf did branch do in Seattle? Honestly, who knew who Welker was when the Patriots traded with the Dolphins for a 2nd and 7th rounders? Any reason why Colston didnít even shop his wares in FA? Because he knows he would not be as good in another offensive system. We can call him elite in the brains department though. Sharpe and Moss are the only elite WRs on your list, but Moss and Sharpe are ringless.

    The bottom line is, if we think we have the pieces in place where a high end WR will help us win, I am all for it. I contend that we could have had Moss, Fitz and Andre Johnson on our team last year, and Ponder would have still been running for his life.

  4. #124
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaniemck7 View Post
    First of all CBs are not listed in slots 3, 4 and 5. DE takes one of those slots. I donít know who would argue that QB is the most important position on field. Protecting the QB is number one priority. His blindside is where he most vulnerable and the LT is usually going against the one of the defenses best athletes. That brings us to position 3: DE. Rushing the passer and being a disruptive force in the backfield is a great foundation to build a defense. 2 CBs that can cover and a stud DE, you would have to be a moron not to be able to coach up a top 10 defensive unit (unless of course your name is Frazier and run a C-2)Ö Well I am being a bit dramatic in that last statement, but still if I had to build a team from scratch, I am gonna be looking for those top 5 positions as my highest priorities. The one thing I did like about Chillyís early philosophy was to build and win in the trenches.

    A WR can put an already good team over the top. A shitty team with an awesome WR is still a shitty team. Look at Brandon Marshall and Miami. He is a stud, and they did pretty much dick with him around. Moss- best in the game- heads to Oakland where they continue to suck. If I could choose any WR in the league right now, I would take Fitzgerald over any other wide out on my team. Yet the year after Kurt retired, he wasnít doing much carrying of the offense.
    Tom, Brees and Favre have had for the most part average to above average talent at WR. You can come at me with how sucky Berrian and Williamson were compared to others in the league, but that comment is misguided. Berriand and Troy are EXACTLY the products of what you are asking our folks to do: Draft a WR at #1 or go get a high priced WR free agent. Donít blame me for the fact that we cannot scout WR talent worth a shit.

    Oh and by the way wtf did branch do in Seattle? Honestly, who knew who Welker was when the Patriots traded with the Dolphins for a 2nd and 7th rounders? Any reason why Colston didnít even shop his wares in FA? Because he knows he would not be as good in another offensive system. We can call him elite in the brains department though. Sharpe and Moss are the only elite WRs on your list, but Moss and Sharpe are ringless.

    The bottom line is, if we think we have the pieces in place where a high end WR will help us win, I am all for it. I contend that we could have had Moss, Fitz and Andre Johnson on our team last year, and Ponder would have still been running for his life.
    I have no problem with a QB & protecting that QB being top priority. I just don't believe the next 3 top priorities on our team should be a DE & 2 CB's in our C-2 defense.

    True a shitty team with an awesome receiver may still be a shitty team, but how is that any different than an awesome DE or an awesome CB on a shitty team. Weren't we 3-13 with JA AND Winfield?

    We could have an awesome defense & an awesome OL, but if we don't have playmakers in the receiving & rushing departments, we aren't scoring TD's & if we aren't scoring TD's, we aren't winning games.

    You keep on bringing up names like Brady, Brees & Favre. Hell, might as well toss Peyton into that mix. Now when people talk about those teams that they are on, do you really think they're talking about how good their DE or DB's are or are they talking about how good their offense is/was?

    I think one of the biggest problems we've had in our secondary was not so much the personnel as it was the scheme. We give up those little chunks all day long & teams keep taking them.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-04-2012 at 07:30 PM.

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBQ Platypus View Post
    I see you're still at it. Would it be pointless to remind you once again that literally no one is saying this? People who think drafting Kalil is a good idea are in no sense advocating the idea that we should completely ignore the skill positions. We have multiple picks this year and will have multiple picks next year. We will have plenty of opportunities to address our needs over the next few years.

    You've been bludgeoning this board over the head with the blunt end of this strawman argument for months now. Sit down, take your meds, and talk about something else for a change, Floyd. You're making yourself look like an asshole.
    AAAAAW Bullshit.


    For some reason it is perfectly valid on the board to say Kalil is the only answer at 3 and there are no other choices and I disagree that there is only one choice. I certainly have not stated my preference any more than the Kalil fans have stated theirs and certainly not as defensively either.

    If you think I am an asshole because I feel the team would be better served by trading back and getting more picks, still addressing the LT position and also adding another player of need then fine, I am an asshole. I can live with that.

    I went through the same shit when I said Childress sucked as a coach, that you could stick a fork in TJ because he wasn't going to be our starting QB, that the KAO and the Childress ZB scheme sucked and really got hammered when I said McNabb was washed up and was a stupid signing so I guess being wrong and being an asshole is something I am comfortable with being called by those who supposedly know better.

    If you so strongly believe that Kalil is the only player who can save the franchise and that no other LT in the draft will be capable of blocking then we can agree to disagree. I personally have no problem with RK. I am sure he has the potential to be a great player and I have been an advocate for taking a LT for years. But drafting this high on the board I would like to get something more than an OL. If we were at 10 or higher that is in my comfort range.


    Also, make sure you put me on the asshole list for thinking the coaching staff sucks and needs to be replaced.

  6. #126
    PackSux!'s Avatar
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    [QUOTE=singersp;1121313]I have no problem with a QB & protecting that QB being top priority. I just don't believe the next 3 top priorities on our team should be a DE & 2 CB's in our C-2 defense.

    True a shitty team with an awesome receiver may still be a shitty team, but how is that any different than an awesome DE or an awesome CB on a shitty team. Weren't we 3-13 with JA AND Winfield?

    We could have an awesome defense & an awesome OL, but if we don't have playmakers in the receiving & rushing departments, we aren't scoring TD's & if we aren't scoring TD's, we aren't winning games.

    You keep on bringing up names like Brady, Brees & Favre. Hell, might as well toss Peyton into that mix. Now when people talk about those teams that they are on, do you really think they're talking about how good their DE or DB's are or are they talking about how good their offense is/was?

    I think one of the biggest problems we've had in our secondary was not so much the personnel as it was the scheme. We give up those little chunks all day long & teams keep taking them.[/QUOTE]

    Better tackling is a must in this defense. Cook, Carr and Winfield could be a really good trio. Although I fear Winfield is getting a bit to old to perform at his usual level.

  7. #127
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackSux! View Post
    Better tackling is a must in this defense. Cook, Carr and Winfield could be a really good trio. Although I fear Winfield is getting a bit to old to perform at his usual level.
    Carr gives us better tackling?

    Carr's best year in the NFL;

    Chris Carr - 2010: 61 tackles (54 solo) in 16 games

    Prior Vikings CB's in their last year with us before being let go;

    Cedric Griffin - 2011: 67 tackles (55 solo) in 14 games

    Fred Smoot - 2006: 61 tackles (57 solo) in 11 games
    Last edited by singersp; 04-05-2012 at 06:52 AM.

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  8. #128
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    While we could trade the pick and pick up a tackle, I'd rather take the top tackle in the draft... I'm not sure how much the drop off is between Khalil and Reiff, however, If I was the GM, I wouldn't want to take that chance... take the player with the chance of being special... IMO...

    with that said, if we were to get a kings ransom like the Rams, then you don't have a choice

    1. btw, Childress was awful
    2. Never was a fan of TJ... or Culpepper, he fumbled too much and couldn't bring us back if we were down in the 4th quarter...
    3. Best coach in my lifetime was Denny Green
    4. Our coaching staff sucks.. Why hire a coach who led a defense that underperformed???
    5. Our GM sucks just as much... if not more....
    6. the KAO was the worst offense i've ever seen until Favre got here the first year... Offense last year wasn't much better.
    7. I hate to say it, but our offense performed better when we feature Harvin instead of AP, When AP is in the game the offense is too predictable - bad coaching/playcalling

  9. #129
    BBQ Platypus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    For some reason it is perfectly valid on the board to say Kalil is the only answer at 3 and there are no other choices and I disagree that there is only one choice. I certainly have not stated my preference any more than the Kalil fans have stated theirs and certainly not as defensively either.
    I'll grant you this point if and only if you can bring up quotes in support of this viewpoint. You've certainly expressed your preference for trading the pick far more vocally than the people who think we should draft Kalil have. Largely by insulting the people who think we should draft Kalil and mischaracterizing their arguments.

    If you think I am an asshole because I feel the team would be better served by trading back and getting more picks, still addressing the LT position and also adding another player of need then fine, I am an asshole. I can live with that.
    I don't think you're an asshole because you think the Vikings should trade for more picks. I think you're an asshole because you express that opinion in the manner of an emotionally incontinent shitpile.

    I went through the same shit when I said Childress sucked as a coach, that you could stick a fork in TJ because he wasn't going to be our starting QB, that the KAO and the Childress ZB scheme sucked and really got hammered when I said McNabb was washed up and was a stupid signing so I guess being wrong and being an asshole is something I am comfortable with being called by those who supposedly know better.
    Congratulations for being literally the only person on this board who had a problem with Childress, TJ, McNabb, and the KAO. I'm sure you must be proud. Also, congratulations on being unable to deal with people disagreeing with you, or to be able to deal with them being proven wrong with any grace whatsoever.

    If you so strongly believe that Kalil is the only player who can save the franchise and that no other LT in the draft will be capable of blocking then we can agree to disagree. I personally have no problem with RK. I am sure he has the potential to be a great player and I have been an advocate for taking a LT for years. But drafting this high on the board I would like to get something more than an OL. If we were at 10 or higher that is in my comfort range.
    Again, I've said no such thing. I've said he'd be a big help to the team and that there's a strong case for him being the BPA, which usually tends to be the way to go in the draft. This paragraph makes me question whether you actually read my post.

    See, your statement of your position here is actually a sensible, intelligible position that can be debated with. You should stick to posting stuff like this. People tend to be more receptive to your opinions when you actually, you know, express them. As opposed to just pouring buckets of shit over everyone.

    Also, make sure you put me on the asshole list for thinking the coaching staff sucks and needs to be replaced.
    No, you're actually right here. Doesn't change the fact that you need to climb back into the phonebooth, take off the Captain Angryfuck costume, and change into some big boy clothes.

    You're really not helping your case here, Floyd.
    Last edited by BBQ Platypus; 04-05-2012 at 12:02 PM.


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  10. #130
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    Spielman likes a guy that scored a 4 on the wonderlic... he must feel akin to morons.

    Spielman's other signing this offseason is widely regarded as the worst FA pickup of 2012: Wow, Now That's Rich - Offseason Low Down - Rotoworld.com

    Fire Spielman.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

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