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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So maybe you would be interested in the pass defense ranking before you throw claiborne under the bus.


    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

    We ranked 9 against the rush and 32nd against the pass and 32nd when facing a #1 WR.

    But I guess kalil will fix that lol.
    After watching the team, we have three needs. A blind side protector for 'ole Ponder, a #1 receiver, and help in the secondary. Those three positions will all be open with our first pick. I really wont complain too much if we get Blackmon, Claiborne, or Kalil. Win, win, win.

  2. #92
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    I'm not against trading back but it would have to be for an extra a first next year and a 2nd this year.
    Floyd, your thoughts on picking up Decastro and Martin. Aren't bad ones. If we it still at 3 however, we have to take Kalil.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    For those who are bitching about the LT and RT maybe at least look at this site:
    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 OFFENSIVE LINES

    They graded out the lines and individual position play for the whole league and we graded out at 18, only 2 behind GB and by their metrics the LT and RT were right at mid pack while the RG and LG were right near the bottom.

    So if we want to improve the OL play then do as i said and move back from 3 to a spot we can take Decastro and then go get Martin at the back end of the 1st and we will be in better shape overall than taking the T at the 3 spot.
    They graded out the lines and individual position play for the whole league and we graded out at 18, only 2 behind GB and by their metrics
    You need to take a closer look. The #18 ranking is for run blocking only.

    AD's average helped to skew that stat. Furthermore, as I have mentioned several times here, our rushers get nailed behind the LOS way to much. In the "stuffed rankings" the Vikings ranked 28th, meaning only 4 other teams had runners stuffed behind the line more than us. Do you believe that's because the OL can't contain the defenders or because AD hit's the line & tips over if there's not a gaping hole?

    Also, we have been better at run blocking than we were at pass blocking.

    Take a gander at the pass blocking stats. We were the worst pass blocking OL in the league at #32. No team was worse. Not a single team. The 9.8% sack rate was the worst in the league, meaning that our QB was sacked the most times per pass attempt.

    the LT and RT were right at mid pack while the RG and LG were right near the bottom.
    Again, this is for run stats only & it was the LT & the RT that were worse than the RG & LG. Not sure which stats you're looking at.

    Ranking the Vikings runs;

    Between the C & the Gs: 16th
    Between the G & LT: 16th
    Between the G & RT: 3rd
    Outside the LT: 28th
    Outside the RT: 19th

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So maybe you would be interested in the pass defense ranking before you throw claiborne under the bus.


    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

    We ranked 9 against the rush and 32nd against the pass and 32nd when facing a #1 WR.

    But I guess kalil will fix that lol.
    Having Cook and Winfield for an extra 21 games might help tho!

    I'm not against Claiborne by any means! Pairing him with Cook and moving Winny to nickel/safety sounds like an awesome trio of Corners! I just think Kalil or Blackmon or Floyd (specially if we can add an extra 2nd this year) helps us a lot more. Pretty tough for a QB to develop well with bottom of the league production from most of the rest of the offense (excluding the running game).

    My other thing with spending a top five pick on CB is where the game has been going...the rules have been bent to favor the passing game. Seems no matter how good your secondary is, eventually, a good offense will find a hole or a seam somewhere and score anyway.

    We're sitting pretty. All three of our needs have top prospects available at no.3! I just think our best case scenario might be to move back with Miami to no.8, and collect a 2nd this year and hopefully, their 2nd next year, after all, the Marshall trade gave them 2 thirds this year and next! Then, we snag Floyd to give our QBs a true threat that will open up the rest of the offense a lil, and back him up with Ponder's familiar backside protector, Zebrie Sanders, LT FSU 6'6" 320.

    Zebrie Sanders, Florida State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

    Pass Blocking: Has good footwork and technique. Balanced and agile pass protection set with excellent hand placement. Lone concern is handling the super-quick NFL edge rusher. Foot speed and quickness are very good, but not elite. Has the power and bend needed to anchor against the bull rush. Easily loses balance when he misses initial punch.

    Run Blocking: Has the ability to sink his hips and generate real power with strong hands. Consistently moves defenders back. Grades out extremely well in every aspect of run blocking.
    We have TEs and a FB to help with super speedy pass rushers, so his "Lone Concern," has help already in place in our offense. And, we have another early 2nd to address our secondary too. But I might lean toward Safety first...the CBs will likely be largely picked over, but a top three option at S might still be there and finally fill a weak hole we've had for decades.

    "You can give Christain Ponder all the time in the world back there...but all the time in the world isn't going to get Michael Jenkins open." -Baldinger arguing why the Vikes should go with Blackmon over Kalil on NFLN.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  5. #95
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    I think that drafting a CB would be a mistake in the first round. Next season when we are sitting at 10-15 range we can pick up a solid CB then. To make a difference for Ponder we need to draft OL and WR. I personally like trading down from 3 and getting additional picks and selecting Floyd or Hill. Either one fits into our plans much better. Plus if that happens we are certain to get an extra 2nd rounder thsi season so in the second round we could get our SF (hopefully Barron) and our LT (Hopefully Osemele). That would be a perfect 1st and 2nd round draft for us. Not to mention we would probably get late round picks or picks next season included in the trade down.

    The talk on Tannehill is heating up and Cleveland is talking about posibly drafting him...That makes a desperate Miami a likely canidate to trade up and probably give us some good picks to do it.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPonderFan View Post
    I think that drafting a CB would be a mistake in the first round. Next season when we are sitting at 10-15 range we can pick up a solid CB then.
    When our 1st round pick is after the top 10 of the draft, I believe we'll be looking at 2015, not 2013.

    Look for them to go after a QB next year with a top 6 pick

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    When our 1st round pick is after the top 10 of the draft, I believe we'll be looking at 2015, not 2013.

    Look for them to go after a QB next year with a top 6 pick
    Thats the great thing about a forum...You get to have an opinion and so does everyone else. I learned a long time ago that opinions are like A-Holes...Everybody has one!

    I really think that Ponder has the tools. I question his deepball accuracy...but Joe Montana didnt have great down field accuracy. In the West Coast offense you dont have to have the deep ball, but you do need to have explosive players. Players that can get seperation off the LOS. Then its about making the read and throwing the ball. I think Ponder has the tools to work in this offense.

    I also dont agree with the draft position next season...I think that if we draft right this season we could be at or around the 10th pick and then the following season a playoff contender. But we have to make the right choices and ...most of all have a little luck on our side.

    OL, WRs, Sproles type HB , SF and of course CB. We have 10 picks...We can gt a few of these needs filled this season
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainviking View Post
    Having Cook and Winfield for an extra 21 games might help tho!

    I'm not against Claiborne by any means! Pairing him with Cook and moving Winny to nickel/safety sounds like an awesome trio of Corners! I just think Kalil or Blackmon or Floyd (specially if we can add an extra 2nd this year) helps us a lot more. Pretty tough for a QB to develop well with bottom of the league production from most of the rest of the offense (excluding the running game).

    My other thing with spending a top five pick on CB is where the game has been going...the rules have been bent to favor the passing game. Seems no matter how good your secondary is, eventually, a good offense will find a hole or a seam somewhere and score anyway.

    We're sitting pretty. All three of our needs have top prospects available at no.3! I just think our best case scenario might be to move back with Miami to no.8, and collect a 2nd this year and hopefully, their 2nd next year, after all, the Marshall trade gave them 2 thirds this year and next! Then, we snag Floyd to give our QBs a true threat that will open up the rest of the offense a lil, and back him up with Ponder's familiar backside protector, Zebrie Sanders, LT FSU 6'6" 320.

    Zebrie Sanders, Florida State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com


    We have TEs and a FB to help with super speedy pass rushers, so his "Lone Concern," has help already in place in our offense. And, we have another early 2nd to address our secondary too. But I might lean toward Safety first...the CBs will likely be largely picked over, but a top three option at S might still be there and finally fill a weak hole we've had for decades.
    I would not be upset with your scenario,

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPonderFan View Post
    Thats the great thing about a forum...You get to have an opinion and so does everyone else. I learned a long time ago that opinions are like A-Holes...Everybody has one!
    And that would include yourself as well!

    Quote Originally Posted by CPonderFan View Post
    I really think that Ponder has the tools. I question his deepball accuracy...but Joe Montana didnt have great down field accuracy. In the West Coast offense you dont have to have the deep ball, but you do need to have explosive players. Players that can get seperation off the LOS. Then its about making the read and throwing the ball. I think Ponder has the tools to work in this offense.

    I also dont agree with the draft position next season...I think that if we draft right this season we could be at or around the 10th pick and then the following season a playoff contender. But we have to make the right choices and ...most of all have a little luck on our side.

    OL, WRs, Sproles type HB , SF and of course CB. We have 10 picks...We can gt a few of these needs filled this season
    No, you don't have to have a deep ball, but you damn better sure have the threat of one.

    The problem with our version of the WCO is that we have AD. Teams typically stack the box when he's in there to stop the run. They can afford to do that because we don't have a deep threat QB or deep threat WR's.

    With that said, there are 8-9 guys in the box covering AD which also makes completing short passes that much more difficult since we don't spread the defense thin often enough.
    Last edited by singersp; 04-02-2012 at 08:47 AM.

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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    And that would include yourself as well!



    No, you don't have to have a deep ball, but you damn better sure have the threat of one.

    The problem with our version of the WCO is that we have AD. Teams typically stack the box when he's in there to stop the run. They can afford to do that because we don't have a deep threat QB or deep threat WR's.

    With that said, there are 8-9 guys in the box covering AD which also makes completing short passes that much more difficult since we don't spread the defense thin often enough.
    Exactly! We've seen this same freaking problem since we traded Moss away and Chiller took over. The same zone blitz that stuffs our running game clogs our short passing lanes too! We have to come up with some sort of deep threat, because it will finally force defenses to actually have to prepare more than one scheme to stop us, and open up some of the underneath stuff we want to do but so often can't.

    IF you look back at Moss' last games with us, I guarantee you will find that AP, Percy and maybe even Shank's averages went up by 20-40% per game. And that was just with a decoy, you add in a few big yardage passing TDs, and maybe, just maybe, we can score like the rest of our division can score.

    IF we do stand pat and collect Kalil, I hope we also do whatever it takes to land one of the premier WRs of this draft, even if it means giving up our third to move our 2nd up.

    It comes down to this: QB Development has to be priority number one! So, go get some talent for them and start building the chemistry and continuity NOW.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

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