Thread: Overall thoughts on the draft + UDFA

Originally Posted by Marrdro

1 Adrian foster - Give you that one.
2 Adrian Peterson - Give you that one, but you do realize Toby will be starting for us.
3 Frank Gore - Almost done. Lets see how much he has left this year especially after the cat they drafted.
4 Jamaal Charles - What? Did he even play last year?
5 Matt Forte - Give you that one. Wonder why the Bores don't agree.
6 Jones drew - Give you that one.
7 Ray Rice - Give you that one.
8 Chris Johnson - Not anymore. Teams have figured him out. He will continue to slide like he did last year. Still will have the big play every now and then but won't be a consistent threat running.
9 Steven Jackson - Done.
10 Michael Turner - Give you that one, but he had around 300 carries again last year. My guess, he might be done as well or you will start to see production slipping. Lombardi said something about them being the second worst at rushing attempts that went for negative yardage and Turner only had 1 game of over 75 yards after week 11.

10b Darren McFadden Whew, did he even crack a grand this year?
10c Ryan Matthews I think he did, but just barely.

Not counting AD, how many is that? Foster/Forte/Drew/Rice and even if I do give you Turner, thats only 5.

Ok. You have just lost any shred of credibility that may have remained.
moving on.

This is easier, lets count teams Gerhart WOULD be a starter on against their current starter (assuming they are healthy to start the season)

New England
Cincy
Indy
Washington
Lions
Tampa
Arizona


Please, name me ONE other team that actually has a starter that Gerhart would start over. One.

He is not a starting calibre back. He is an average backup at best. Not a bad player to have, but by no means is he a difference maker.

Easy, Green Bay. His versatility and power running would be a great fit for a pass-first team. He could also likely provide an upgrade to some early pick/under achievers like Greene with the Jets or Mathews of the Chargers and was more consistent than the Titans or Giants RBs, who believe it or not, finished 31st and 32nd in rushing yards/game last year!

Furthermore, Toby averaged 4.9 yards/carry last season (while constantly running into 8 & 9 man fronts) which was as good as or better than all but 3 TEAM's average per rush!!

NFL Stats: by Team Category

True, Peterson is way more of a threat to go the distance, but as a late game, power running/clock eating dominator, there's not many out there that are better.

Originally Posted by mountainviking

Easy, Green Bay. His versatility and power running would be a great fit for a pass-first team. He could also likely provide an upgrade to some early pick/under achievers like Greene with the Jets or Mathews of the Chargers and was more consistent than the Titans or Giants RBs, who believe it or not, finished 31st and 32nd in rushing yards/game last year!

Furthermore, Toby averaged 4.9 yards/carry last season (while constantly running into 8 & 9 man fronts) which was as good as or better than all but 3 TEAM's average per rush!!

NFL Stats: by Team Category

True, Peterson is way more of a threat to go the distance, but as a late game, power running/clock eating dominator, there's not many out there that are better.

You are drinking the KoolAid.
Gerhart would not start over 3 of the teams you named. Bradshaw is a superior back to Gerhert.
Everyone points to his 5.0 yards a carry...ha anyone taking the time to look at how he got 5.0 yards a carry.
2 for 18? 2 for 12? 3 for 36? These are his full game stats. I won't look past the washington game where he average 9.0 yards a carry.
However, he is an average back. He would not start over Greene, Bradshaw or Chris Johnson. He might split reps with Matthews.

Originally Posted by kevoncox

You are drinking the KoolAid.
Gerhart would not start over 3 of the teams you named. Bradshaw is a superior back to Gerhert.
Everyone points to his 5.0 yards a carry...ha anyone taking the time to look at how he got 5.0 yards a carry.
2 for 18? 2 for 12? 3 for 36? These are his full game stats. I won't look past the washington game where he average 9.0 yards a carry.
However, he is an average back. He would not start over Greene, Bradshaw or Chris Johnson. He might split reps with Matthews.

In the NFL, it's easier to go 2 for 1, 2 for -5, 3 for 10. Don't just wipe away the fact he's gaining significant yards on a team with a widely known passing problem. Super Star, no, but I wouldn't want to play against him.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

This is easier, lets count teams Gerhart WOULD be a starter on against their current starter (assuming they are healthy to start the season)

New England
Cincy
Indy
Washington
Lions
Tampa
Arizona


Please, name me ONE other team that actually has a starter that Gerhart would start over. One.

He is not a starting calibre back. He is an average backup at best. Not a bad player to have, but by no means is he a difference maker.

Counting 7 out of 32 teams, and then asking for an 8th does NOT prove your point. If anything, it proves that he is a starting caliber RB that, if paired with an effective passing threat, could be a solid difference maker.

A difference maker is one thing (runs out the clock, catches out of back field, finds first downs). A Superstar (carry team on back) is another. Toby is a difference maker, not quite a super star.

Well, some of you are looking at Toby the wrong way. He's a grinder. He wears down defenses and then starts to pile up the yards. He doesn't really get to do that here. I think he'd start on about half the teams in the league.

I don't see how him being defined as a grinder gives him any more chance to be a starter than if he is classified differently. If anything the fact that he is a grinder, which I agree with, puts restraints on when and where he can be used and limits his chances of starting on any team over backs that are closer to the prototype RB's.

His skill set is always going to limit him to being a bit player in an offense unless he finds a coach and a system that thinks enough of him to build or scheme around the skills he has and is content with giving up the things he lacks.

On way or the other there is no way that he could unseat the starter on half the teams in the league. The number could be counted on one hand.

Am I the only one who doesn't think Toby would start in TB? He wouldn't be ahead of Blount and Doug Martin. Also, Mikel Leshoure and Javid Best would start ahead of him in Detroit also. Beanie Wells wouldn't lose his job to Toby either. So that narrows his teams down to these five IMO.

New England
Cincy
Indy
Washington
Green Bay

And NE doesn't even really have a feature back, so he wouldn't really be anything more than a committee back with Woodhead and Ridley. Also, Hightower and Helu are both underrated in Washington. So in reality, there's only 3, maybe 4, spots where he's a shoe in to start.

Jesus ... all this talk about Toby is crazy.

Marrdro is doing his usual thing here. Sticking his foot in his mouth and then talking all sorts of goofiness to get out of it. Toby is so noticeably slower than AD that it has to be one of the most ridiculous things claimed on this site ... EVER. I do agree that Toby is better than many give credit though ... and do believe he can be an effective RB in this league, but to act like he would start all over the league is ridiculous.

Places he NO QUESTION would ride the pine in: Philadelphia, Minnesota, Chicago, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans, San Francisco, St. Louis, Seattle, Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh (with health Mendenhall), Baltimore, Tennessee, Houston, Jacksonville,

Places he would at best share SOME carries, but likely be the second choice: Dallas, N.Y. Giants, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Arizona, Miami, N.Y. Jets, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego,

Places he would MAYBE have a shot at starting: Green Bay, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh (with Mendenahll injury worse than though), Denver

Places he would have a shot at starting: Washington, New England, Indianapolis

That is probably a generous list too. C'mon Marr ... you are really off your rocker on this one. There are maybe six or seven teams in the entire league where Toby would have an expanded role compared to what he has in Minnesota.

Does not change the fact that I am happy with him in his role, but acting like he could be a feature back all over the league and he is held back by being behind AD is just wrong.

EDIT: Also Marr, while we are at it here ... since we have so many solid starters, so many starter worthy backups ... and such good coaches that know what they are doing ... why the fuck are we only winning 3 games? Is it because of the fans? Seriously? The only players on the team you bag on are the good ones (Jared Allen being a constant snarky target) and you are constantly touting the good play of the offensive line and players like Gerhart while giving props to the front office and the coaches. How come we lose?