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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    you had a little typo. AD's low was 4.42 and Toby's was 4.62. You can try and convince yourself that these guys have similar speed, but you must be staring at the lineman's asses when these guys are in the game, because it isn't even close. Toby is average to below average speed of an NFL RB, AD is above average. Toby doesn't run by or around anyone.

    If you just want to play with the combine numbers, then think of it this way, AD's 40 time varied from 4.37 to 4.42. That's pretty consistent and shows his speed is fairly natural for him. Toby varied from 4.47 to 4.62. I'm sure you equate that to Toby ran a 4.47 and AD ran a 4.42, therefore, ergo, they are essentially the same.

    Toby does not have the burst of AD and he doesn't have the straight line speed that AD does, he is not blowing by any defensive backs in this league. He is a good north to south runner, beats up on opponents, and is a decent RB, but nothing special.
    How about this, take a look at the runners that came out this year and last year. Toby is right up there with them as well all the while carrying one hell of a load.

    Play with the numbers all you want and mix in stuff (I never mentioned) about busts, pizzaz, etc. but it still comes down to Toby is alot faster that alot of you want to accept.

    A avg of close to 5.0 yards a carry isn't achieved by getting 5 yards a carry my friend. It is achieved by breaking a few. Show me another back (other than AD of course) that can work the middle, get to the edge and catch the ball like Toby can.

    Is AD a bit more fun to watch? Sure, but damned if I don't like watching Toby out juke a cat on one play and then run through two of them the next and then outrun a guy on the next like he did on that 67 yarder he broke last year.

    Toby Gerhart Highlights - YouTube

    One last time for possible penetration (....snicker.....) he isn't AD, but he sure isn't the slow footed FB like oaf you guys make him out to be.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Then why did they burn the 4 pick on an OT who is good in pass protection but not near as good in the run? They could have traded back much farther and got a better run blocking LT or even used Love.
    I think you have the scouting report flipflopped on Kalil.

    One of his weaknesses is against the bull rush but his ability to get out in space and eat up defenders against the run was his strong point.

    • Mayock on USC LT Matt Kalil: “Wonderfully gifted. Great feet, long arms, fits athleticism bill for an All-Pro left tackle.” Lacks “core strength.”

    Z-Report Says: To me, Kalil is definitely the 2nd best prospect int his draft based on ability, high ceiling and high floor. He runs with the fluid hips of a big tight end which allows him to get to the second and third levels with ease. While Mayock thinks he lacks core strength, I believe he has enough to still be elite and I really like his punch.
    Mike Mayock gives his opinions on draft prospects & I chime in with mine | The Z Report | a Chron.com blog

    Pros--Extremely talented kid as a left tackle prospect…natural left tackle and has good feet…powerful in the running game…good family blood line…probably the most talented player between him and his brother (Ryan, C, Panthers)….very long arms…good height…gets off the snap fast…good use of hands…high motor…durable
    Cons--Sometimes plays a little high, not an elite level athlete…been the top of his class for a couple of years… needs to add more bulk to his frame…needs to play stronger and while a natural knee bender, not a great technician at this point will have to improve on that
    2012 NFL Draft: Minnesota Vikings Select Matt Kalil, OT, USC Live Draft Grade - NFL Mocks - 2013 NFL Mock Draft, Fantasy Football, NFL News, and NFL Mock Draft Databases

    In the end, right now he is probably a better run blocker than he is a pass blocker.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    How about this, take a look at the runners that came out this year and last year. Toby is right up there with them as well all the while carrying one hell of a load.

    Play with the numbers all you want and mix in stuff (I never mentioned) about busts, pizzaz, etc. but it still comes down to Toby is alot faster that alot of you want to accept.

    A avg of close to 5.0 yards a carry isn't achieved by getting 5 yards a carry my friend. It is achieved by breaking a few. Show me another back (other than AD of course) that can work the middle, get to the edge and catch the ball like Toby can.

    Is AD a bit more fun to watch? Sure, but damned if I don't like watching Toby out juke a cat on one play and then run through two of them the next and then outrun a guy on the next like he did on that 67 yarder he broke last year.

    Toby Gerhart Highlights - YouTube

    One last time for possible penetration (....snicker.....) he isn't AD, but he sure isn't the slow footed FB like oaf you guys make him out to be.
    Not a slow footed oaf, but not "almost as fast" as AD either. Just average in the speed category, which suits him fine.

    Your highlight video is a good example of Toby's strengths. Running through people and making them miss tackles. This does have a lot of similarities with AD. However, it does not show any break away runs. The 67 yarder you mention was not in that video.

    Here it is: Gerhart's 67 yard run

    He does a good job of outrunning the LB, but notice the CB that catches him from behind. That CB, Josh Wilson for the Redskins had similar 40 times to AD. This video gives a good view of the difference in speed between Toby and AD and how it translates on the field.

  4. #94
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    Iw atched both videos and i still feel the same way; he's a modern day fullback. Dead and gone are the guys like Richardson and Mack Strong. Instead we have the Brian Lenoards, Jacob Hesters and Mike Tolberts. They are big down hill runners, used to pound the ball but are not the type of fast Rbs, big backs coming out of college. The spread is killing the FB.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    Not a slow footed oaf, but not "almost as fast" as AD either. Just average in the speed category, which suits him fine.

    Your highlight video is a good example of Toby's strengths. Running through people and making them miss tackles. This does have a lot of similarities with AD. However, it does not show any break away runs. The 67 yarder you mention was not in that video.

    Here it is: Gerhart's 67 yard run

    He does a good job of outrunning the LB, but notice the CB that catches him from behind. That CB, Josh Wilson for the Redskins had similar 40 times to AD. This video gives a good view of the difference in speed between Toby and AD and how it translates on the field.
    Again, not saying he is a CJ, AD or a Tate kindof guy. But he can (and does several times in teh vid) get to the edge nicely and can outrun people.

    Quick question, how many teams have a better RB than him right now? 5, maybe 6? I bet ole Toby here would start for atleast 15 teams, possibly 18 or 20 and would get alot more reps on about 5 more than he does here because we have AD.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Iw atched both videos and i still feel the same way; he's a modern day fullback. Dead and gone are the guys like Richardson and Mack Strong. Instead we have the Brian Lenoards, Jacob Hesters and Mike Tolberts. They are big down hill runners, used to pound the ball but are not the type of fast Rbs, big backs coming out of college. The spread is killing the FB.
    FB?

    Bigger, stronger AND faster that any FB my friend.

    On a side note, so much love for Tony around here. Kindof odd you, above all people, would lump him in with the likes of Mack. If that cat would have played on the east coast, well. You know were I'm going with that.

    On a side note, I agree with your point about the FB position being dead. Been saying it for years, but it is interesting that the O-coord drafted a FB/TE/HB kindof cat this year. From what I've heard coming out of the first camp, he was a "eye opener".

    Notes From Rookie Camp: All Hail Rhett Ellison | May
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    FB?

    Bigger, stronger AND faster that any FB my friend.

    On a side note, so much love for Tony around here. Kindof odd you, above all people, would lump him in with the likes of Mack. If that cat would have played on the east coast, well. You know were I'm going with that.

    On a side note, I agree with your point about the FB position being dead. Been saying it for years, but it is interesting that the O-coord drafted a FB/TE/HB kindof cat this year. From what I've heard coming out of the first camp, he was a "eye opener".

    Notes From Rookie Camp: All Hail Rhett Ellison | May
    I wouldn't say he is faster than the Tolberts, Hesters and McClains would you?
    Yeah, Mack Strong was a hell of a football player. He should teach clinics on opening holes and wiping out backers. He imposed his will on defenses and I wager made a couple of Backers hate blitzing.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post


    Quick question, how many teams have a better RB than him right now? 5, maybe 6? I bet ole Toby here would start for atleast 15 teams, possibly 18 or 20 and would get alot more reps on about 5 more than he does here because we have AD.
    Lol

    that is as big of a reach as you saying TJ would start on half the teams in the NFL and Ryan Cook would be a starter on half of the NFL OL's.

    I am going to simply this and name 10 RB's and you give me the 5 you think that Toby would take a roster spot from:

    1 Adrian foster
    2 Adrian Peterson
    3 Frank Gore
    4 Jamaal Charles
    5 Matt Forte
    6 Jones drew
    7 Ray Rice
    8 Chris Johnson
    9 Steven Jackson
    10 Michael Turner

    And i will throw in

    10b Darren McFadden
    10c Ryan Matthews

    Just to see if he can get into the top 13 which I would doubt.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Lol

    that is as big of a reach as you saying TJ would start on half the teams in the NFL and Ryan Cook would be a starter on half of the NFL OL's.

    I am going to simply this and name 10 RB's and you give me the 5 you think that Toby would take a roster spot from:

    1 Adrian foster
    2 Adrian Peterson
    3 Frank Gore
    4 Jamaal Charles
    5 Matt Forte
    6 Jones drew
    7 Ray Rice
    8 Chris Johnson
    9 Steven Jackson
    10 Michael Turner

    And i will throw in

    10b Darren McFadden
    10c Ryan Matthews

    Just to see if he can get into the top 13 which I would doubt.
    1 Adrian foster - Give you that one.
    2 Adrian Peterson - Give you that one, but you do realize Toby will be starting for us.
    3 Frank Gore - Almost done. Lets see how much he has left this year especially after the cat they drafted.
    4 Jamaal Charles - What? Did he even play last year?
    5 Matt Forte - Give you that one. Wonder why the Bores don't agree.
    6 Jones drew - Give you that one.
    7 Ray Rice - Give you that one.
    8 Chris Johnson - Not anymore. Teams have figured him out. He will continue to slide like he did last year. Still will have the big play every now and then but won't be a consistent threat running.
    9 Steven Jackson - Done.
    10 Michael Turner - Give you that one, but he had around 300 carries again last year. My guess, he might be done as well or you will start to see production slipping. Lombardi said something about them being the second worst at rushing attempts that went for negative yardage and Turner only had 1 game of over 75 yards after week 11.

    10b Darren McFadden Whew, did he even crack a grand this year?
    10c Ryan Matthews I think he did, but just barely.

    Not counting AD, how many is that? Foster/Forte/Drew/Rice and even if I do give you Turner, thats only 5.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    1 Adrian foster - Give you that one.
    2 Adrian Peterson - Give you that one, but you do realize Toby will be starting for us.
    3 Frank Gore - Almost done. Lets see how much he has left this year especially after the cat they drafted.
    4 Jamaal Charles - What? Did he even play last year?
    5 Matt Forte - Give you that one. Wonder why the Bores don't agree.
    6 Jones drew - Give you that one.
    7 Ray Rice - Give you that one.
    8 Chris Johnson - Not anymore. Teams have figured him out. He will continue to slide like he did last year. Still will have the big play every now and then but won't be a consistent threat running.
    9 Steven Jackson - Done.
    10 Michael Turner - Give you that one, but he had around 300 carries again last year. My guess, he might be done as well or you will start to see production slipping. Lombardi said something about them being the second worst at rushing attempts that went for negative yardage and Turner only had 1 game of over 75 yards after week 11.

    10b Darren McFadden Whew, did he even crack a grand this year?
    10c Ryan Matthews I think he did, but just barely.

    Not counting AD, how many is that? Foster/Forte/Drew/Rice and even if I do give you Turner, thats only 5.
    Stick to talking about B gaps, WR routes, and OL assignments marr. Anyone with a brain could see that Toby wouldn't start on any of those teams.

    You honestly think that Toby would start ahead of Chris Johnson? LOL. I hate the guy, but he started getting it together last year. You can't "figure out" a player and make him useless. He was still a top 10 rb last year.

    Frank Gore is the heart of that offense, you think Toby would go start there, especially with Brandon Jacobs and Lamichael James backing him up?

    And good lord, just because Jamaal Charles was injured last year, you think Toby would start ahead of him? Jamaal Charles was in contention for being the best RB in the league before he tore his ACL and now our backup RB would go start ahead of him? Also, Peyton Hillis is over there in KC and he's better than Toby if he get's his head on straight.

    Steven Jackson isn't done and he is still the unquestioned starter. He's getting old, but not so old that Toby would start ahead of him. Why don't you go to a Rams forum and ask them if they think that Toby would start ahead of Jackson.

    Mcfadden had injury problems but he was easily a top 10 top 15 RB last year. Then he was hurt and Michael Bush played in his stead and I don't think Toby would start ahead of either of them.

    Ryan Mathews is a 3rd year back and really started to come on last year. He's the future of that franchise. Gerhart isn't doing anything there.

    He also wouldn't start ahead of Deangelo Williams/Jonathon Stewart, LeSean McCoy, Trent Richardson, Willis McGahee, Demarco Murray (guy showed a TON of potential and ability last year), and Reggie Bush (showed he can be a #1 back last year), LeGarrete Blount, and Marshawn Lynch.

    Places he could compete are CIN, NE, maybe NO but Sproles in the perfect back for that situation, Indianapolis, possibly ARI but Beanie Wells is showing he can be a force so who knows, GB, PIT if Mendenhall keeps getting injured and Gerhart is a nice back for that system, Washington even though he'd split with Helu, and DET if their two starting RBs keep getting hurt/busted for ganja.

    Look, Gerhart isn't bad and I like him on our team, but he's nowhere near as good as you think he is.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

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