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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    Its all about balance my friend.

    Ole Pukers......15-1 because of their Offense. What happened after that. Teams with an offense and defense (balance) sent them home.

    Take it one step further......

    You also have to have balance on offense and defense. Good enough to run when you face a team that can't stop the run and good enough to pass when you have a team that can't stop the pass.

    Again, using the PUKERS for an example, they chucked it all over the place last year, and when they needed to run, they couldn't.

    Balance......only thing (well that and depth) that will get you to the end my friend.
    Nope, you only need an offense. A defense helps but the two top seeded teams(packers and patriots) were all offense. Once you get into the playoffs it is more of a crapshoot with 1 and done, often the best teams don't win(as all Vikings fans are well aware).
    BTW, the Giants had the 27th ranked defense.

  2. #12
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    Nope, you only need an offense. A defense helps but the two top seeded teams(packers and patriots) were all offense.
    And neither won the Super Bowl. Sort of a weak argument.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    And neither won the Super Bowl. Sort of a weak argument.
    Most of the time when you take one sentence out of a three sentence argument it becomes kinda weak.

    The Giants had the 27th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.
    The 2009 Saints had the 25th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.

    Saying you don't need a good defense to win a Superbowl is not an opinion it is a proven fact.

  4. #14
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    Of course if your offense sucks, the defense is worse and the coaching staff seems to be less effective than both of those units then it is really pointless to think you can get by what you have on either side of the ball.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    Most of the time when you take one sentence out of a three sentence argument it becomes kinda weak.

    The Giants had the 27th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.
    The 2009 Saints had the 25th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.

    Saying you don't need a good defense to win a Superbowl is not an opinion it is a proven fact.
    Did you notice how well their defense picked up in the playoffs?

    The Giants were a mediocre team until the end of the season, part of the reason when they went on the run they did was because their defense picked up significantly.

    Just like Kevon said earlier in the thread, you just need to score more points than you allow. There's many ways to skin that cat.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    Most of the time when you take one sentence out of a three sentence argument it becomes kinda weak.

    The Giants had the 27th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.
    The 2009 Saints had the 25th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.

    Saying you don't need a good defense to win a Superbowl is not an opinion it is a proven fact.
    The Giants had the 27th ranked defense in the regular season. They had the #1 ranked defense in ponts per game during the post season, when it counted.

    In 2010, the Packers had the #1 ranked defense in the ppg during theist season.
    In 2009, the Saints had the #3 ranked defense...
    In 2008, the Steelers were #4...
    In 2007, the Giants were #1 again...

    And so on... And in EVERY one of these cases the defense held post season opponents to and average of 20 ppg or below.

    I think the it is fair to say that you don't need a defense to be playing well to MAKE it to the postseason. But you need a defense that is playing well to win the Super Bowl.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #17
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    Most of the time when you take one sentence out of a three sentence argument it becomes kinda weak.

    The Giants had the 27th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.
    The 2009 Saints had the 25th ranked defense and won the Superbowl.

    Saying you don't need a good defense to win a Superbowl is not an opinion it is a proven fact.
    Scroll up and read Nodak's post.

    Try to keep up, might get a bit complex.

    To simply say they were the 27th ranked defense during the regular season and equating that to playing awful defense in the playoffs is myopic. Like Nodak pointed out, they had the #1 ranked defense in the postseason. Something tells me that's part of the reason why the Patriots only scored 17 points (their lowest point total of the season [tied with week 8 loss to Steelers... who also have a pretty good defense]).

    Also, if you broke out the last 5 games of the season, you'll notice that the defense really started putting it together and were playing much better than the 27th ranking would indicate.
    Last edited by C Mac D; 05-16-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    Scroll up and read Nodak's post.

    Try to keep up, might get a bit complex.

    To simply say they were the 27th ranked defense during the regular season and equating that to playing awful defense in the playoffs is myopic. Like Nodak pointed out, they had the #1 ranked defense in the postseason. Something tells me that's part of the reason why the Patriots only scored 17 points (their lowest point total of the season [tied with week 8 loss to Steelers... who also have a pretty good defense]).

    Also, if you broke out the last 5 games of the season, you'll notice that the defense really started putting it together and were playing much better than the 27th ranking would indicate.
    It is definitely true that all of these defenses are better than their regular season numbers indicated. But, talking about their postseason "ranking" is also kind of ridiculous.

    There are only 12 teams in the postseason (so the teams ranked #3 and #4 that were pointed out are not that special). Of the 12, at least 4 only play ONE GAME and at least 4 play no more than TWO GAMES. Those are hardly fair sample sizes and can be easily twisted by out-of-normal numbers.

    While it is obvious to any observer the Giants defense in 2012 and 2007 and the Saints defense in 2009 were much better than the regular season numbers indicated (in particular those Giants teams) it should also be obvious to ANY observer that defenses simply are not as integral to winning a Super Bowl as they once were.

    Offense is the name of the game right now. Anyone can see that the Packers, Saints and Steelers won based on very prolific offenses (now the Steelers also happen to have a dynamic defense). The Giants were the No. 5 scoring offense in 2011 (which is kind of low for a winner), but the Packers were No. 3 in 2010 (because the Saints only played ONE game which also skewed the Seahawks to No. 2), the Saints were No. 2 in 2009 (because the Packers played ONE game where the Cardinals played NO DEFENSE), Steelers No. 2 in 2008, the Colts No. 3 in 2006.

    So, the offenses were scoring as well, but again, those numbers are very skewed by the small sample sizes the playoffs allow.

    It really seems to be that your defense needs to be able to make big plays here and there (Colts in 2006, Packers in 2010, Saints in 2009 for example) but your offense carries you ... unless you are the Giants of course ... then all talking of what leads you to wins goes out to windows because they are completely all over the place

  9. #19
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    It is definitely true that all of these defenses are better than their regular season numbers indicated. But, talking about their postseason "ranking" is also kind of ridiculous.

    There are only 12 teams in the postseason (so the teams ranked #3 and #4 that were pointed out are not that special). Of the 12, at least 4 only play ONE GAME and at least 4 play no more than TWO GAMES. Those are hardly fair sample sizes and can be easily twisted by out-of-normal numbers.

    While it is obvious to any observer the Giants defense in 2012 and 2007 and the Saints defense in 2009 were much better than the regular season numbers indicated (in particular those Giants teams) it should also be obvious to ANY observer that defenses simply are not as integral to winning a Super Bowl as they once were.

    Offense is the name of the game right now. Anyone can see that the Packers, Saints and Steelers won based on very prolific offenses (now the Steelers also happen to have a dynamic defense). The Giants were the No. 5 scoring offense in 2011 (which is kind of low for a winner), but the Packers were No. 3 in 2010 (because the Saints only played ONE game which also skewed the Seahawks to No. 2), the Saints were No. 2 in 2009 (because the Packers played ONE game where the Cardinals played NO DEFENSE), Steelers No. 2 in 2008, the Colts No. 3 in 2006.

    So, the offenses were scoring as well, but again, those numbers are very skewed by the small sample sizes the playoffs allow.

    It really seems to be that your defense needs to be able to make big plays here and there (Colts in 2006, Packers in 2010, Saints in 2009 for example) but your offense carries you ... unless you are the Giants of course ... then all talking of what leads you to wins goes out to windows because they are completely all over the place
    Yeah, you're still missing the point. Hate to use regular season stats to prove you wrong... but here you go:

    The Packers had one of the best defenses in the league in 2010... 5th in the league actually (regular season). In 2011 when their defense disappeared, they were 1-and-done in the playoffs.

    And saying the Steelers had a 'very prolific' offense in 2008 is laughable. It was ranked 22nd in the league (20th in scoring)... they did, however, have the #1 defense.

    If you disagree, you disagree... no big deal, I just feel bad because you're missing a big part of the game and only seem to be paying attention to the offenses. But - that's what casual fans do.
    Last edited by C Mac D; 05-16-2012 at 02:17 PM.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  10. #20
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    Yeah, you're still missing the point. Hate to use regular season stats to prove you wrong... but here you go:

    The Packers had one of the best defenses in the league in 2010... 5th in the league actually (regular season). In 2011 when their defense disappeared, they were 1-and-done in the playoffs.

    And saying the Steelers had a 'very prolific' offense in 2008 is laughable. It was ranked 22nd in the league (20th in scoring)... they did, however, have the #1 defense.

    If you disagree, you disagree... no big deal, I just feel bad because you're missing a big part of the game and only seem to be paying attention to the offenses. But - that's what casual fans do.
    Those are very valid points and I definitely did not realize the Steelers were as poor in 2008.

    I by no means think that defense does not matter. It definitely does. But the game has definitely shifted in the last few years to offensive teams having more and more success. That is quite obvious to the most intense of fans as well as the "casual" ones.

    In 2007, the 14th scoring offense won the title while carrying the 16th scoring defense. In 2008, the 20th scoring offense won while carrying the BEST scoring defense. In 2009, the TOP scoring offense won while carrying the 20th scoring defense. In 2010, the 10th scoring offense won with the No. 2 scoring defense. In 2011, the 9th scoring offense made it carrying the 25th scoring defense.

    It is obvious in the Super Bowl runner ups also. In 2007, the top scoring offense made the bowl carrying the 4th scoring defense. In 2008, the 3rd scoring offense made it carrying the 28th scoring defense. In 2009, the 9th scoring offense made it carrying the 8th scoring defense. In 2010, the 12th scoring offense made it while carrying the BEST scoring defense. In 2011, the 3rd scoring offense made it carrying the 20th scoring defense.

    So the last 10 Super Bowl participants include and average of the 8th scoring offense and the 13th scoring defense.

    So while the defense still matters (an average in the top half of the league) ... being able to score matters more (an average in the top 4th of the league).

    To win it all though, the averages are 10th and 13th ... still in favor of the offenses.

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