Thread: Jared Allen wants Morris Claiborne

Originally Posted by 12purplepride28

It's easy to point to the Patriots and Packers and say that we don't need an elite LT, but their OL's, QB, and Coaches are much much better than us. And I disagree with you on the Patriots. Matt Light is a beast of a LT, and the Packers have a pretty decent OL.

Chad Clifton is a pretty damn good LT as well. Look at how many times he held his own against JA one on one.

Originally Posted by 12purplepride28

Not really. Assuming Kalil helps us get an extra 1.5 plays per drive, that gives our defense more time to rest and also helps our offense. Any offensive help makes our defense better. Doesn't work as much the other way.

That is one hell of an assumption. Name one LT in the history of the NFL that came in and gave the team an extra 1.5 plays per drive.

Did any of the top LT's in the game right now personally account for that type of increase in plays per drive? considering the records of those teams I find it highly unlikely but feel free to post proof.

Originally Posted by 12purplepride28

It's easy to point to the Patriots and Packers and say that we don't need an elite LT, but their OL's, QB, and Coaches are much much better than us. And I disagree with you on the Patriots. Matt Light is a beast of a LT, and the Packers have a pretty decent OL. Get a good OL and let Ponder get comfortable and WRs will get better. They are a dime a dozen

It's pretty easy to look at teams like Miami and Cleveland and say even with a top LT their offense still looks like crap.

Originally Posted by Caine

I would argue that the two most important skill positions are QB and WR. Having an Elite LT is NOT a prerequisite to a Championship. It's simply something that a talking hat put out there once, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Rogers, Brady, and Manning did great for years without Elite LT's. In fact, most of the "Elite" left Tackles are on crappy teams...doesn't seem to make their QB's any better.

Truth is, with an average line, and great receivers, any QB can shine....look at what Flynn did in Green Bay. That certainly wasn't because Chad Clifton is a beast...Clifton has been recycled so many times it's amazing he's still in the game.

Further, just because there are a shortage of line players in this draft doesn't mean that the one's available are "must have" players. The fact remains that the teams winning championships have strong passing games (because they have good QB's and WR's), and strong defenses....or, to follow the Green bay model, have such a strong passing game that no one can outscore them (Except the Giants in January...roflmao).

So, for MY money, I'd rather see us load up on WR's. Following that, I'd like to see some solid DB's brought in, as well as LB upgrades. I had originally wanted a QB, but the two worth chasing are already off the table so...

As for LT, I think it will be a wasted pick if we take Kalil. Sure, he may turn out to be great, but it won't help us where we need it most.

Caine

+1

Originally Posted by singersp

Chad Clifton is a pretty damn good LT as well. Look at how many times he held his own against JA one on one.

You do know the last 4 times Allen face the Packers when Clifton was a starter he has 8.5 sacks....although Clifton didn't give up any last year since he missed 10 games and Allen never saw him

What makes me relatively happy at least is the fact that it's almost impossible for the Rickster to screw up the first and second pick. Well....maybe not the second but for sure the first. We have a ton of holes in the dam, and only so many corks. We have to fix the 'gushers' first and then worry about the others.

Gushers in my mind are the .4 seconds Ponder has to throw the ball, and basically one slot receiver to throw to on offense. I know are secondary is and should be considered a gusher, but I honestly believe with FA signings and getting "the strangler" back, we will be better than most think in the secondary. I'm not saying that means much, but we should be quite a bit better than last year as it stands right now.


In this division, if you aren't scoring a lot of points than you are never going to keep up and that's a fact. We need offense bad. That being said, I would like to see 1. Kalil 2. WR

Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

That is one hell of an assumption. Name one LT in the history of the NFL that came in and gave the team an extra 1.5 plays per drive.

Did any of the top LT's in the game right now personally account for that type of increase in plays per drive? considering the records of those teams I find it highly unlikely but feel free to post proof.

It's not that great of an assumption, and it shouldn't be that hard to do. Charlie Johnson was awful and people were all over Ponder. Bring in a (potentially) great LT who can give Ponder a couple extra seconds once in awhile and that will do wonders for his confidence.

Cleveland's and Miami's offenses suck because their QBs are garbage, not because they have LTs. We have our QB, now we need an OL for him. Look at Carr. No OL --> always sacked --> Bust. If we had an average or above average OL as a unit then I would understand the desire to go WR or CB, but we don't . Our OL is garbage and it's going to get Ponder murdered.

Kindof like the Chicken or the Egg discussion. Good WR's get open quicker, QB can throw to them quicker, don't need a great OL.

Good OL allows the QB more time to find crappy WR's as they try to get open and can protect him long enough until the crappy WR's get open.

Truth of the matter is, both answers are correct. What one has to "Ponder" is, what do the Vikings staff think is correct? In this instance my belief is that they are going to take the T. They've then fixed/plugged/addressed 3 of 5 positions on the OL.

RT Load
RG The Swartz be with you
C Sully
LG CJ (moves in from LT)
LT Kalil

Add in 2 or 3 WR's from this class and Ponder should have some targets at WR. Problem that worries me is the signing of Carlson and Hardy still make me want to believe Ole Musgrove is going to employ alot of multi TE sets.

Not alot of work for a WR when they run out a 2-3 or a 1-3 set.
LT Kalil

Ex-Viking Gary Zimmerman talks about Matt Kalil

Bob Sansevere: Ex-Viking Gary Zimmerman talks about Matt Kalil - TwinCities.com

So, basically, what Zim is saying is, as long as you stay away from 7 step drops, any ole LT will do, as long as you have the WR's who can get open on the 3 and 5 step routes.

Hmmmmmmm, sounds like one of the eggs has moved in front of the chicken.

AFAIK, both Kalil and Claiborne are considered "elite" prospects. I would be happy with either one. If we take Claiborne, I could see taking Mississippi LT Bobby Massie with our 2nd round pick.

If the defense can get off the field more/sooner, and yield less points, the Vikings offense may not be forced to score tons of points to win. I think either player is a move in the right direction.