Thread: Jared Allen wants Morris Claiborne

Originally Posted by BBQ Platypus

The same applies to cornerback or literally any other position. This barely even qualifies as an argument. Besides, the general consensus is that this draft is much thinner at O-line than it is at the skill positions anyway.

I would argue that the two most important skill positions are QB and WR. Having an Elite LT is NOT a prerequisite to a Championship. It's simply something that a talking hat put out there once, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Rogers, Brady, and Manning did great for years without Elite LT's. In fact, most of the "Elite" left Tackles are on crappy teams...doesn't seem to make their QB's any better.

Truth is, with an average line, and great receivers, any QB can shine....look at what Flynn did in Green Bay. That certainly wasn't because Chad Clifton is a beast...Clifton has been recycled so many times it's amazing he's still in the game.

Further, just because there are a shortage of line players in this draft doesn't mean that the one's available are "must have" players. The fact remains that the teams winning championships have strong passing games (because they have good QB's and WR's), and strong defenses....or, to follow the Green bay model, have such a strong passing game that no one can outscore them (Except the Giants in January...roflmao).

So, for MY money, I'd rather see us load up on WR's. Following that, I'd like to see some solid DB's brought in, as well as LB upgrades. I had originally wanted a QB, but the two worth chasing are already off the table so...

As for LT, I think it will be a wasted pick if we take Kalil. Sure, he may turn out to be great, but it won't help us where we need it most.

Caine

Originally Posted by Caine

I would argue that the two most important skill positions are QB and WR. Having an Elite LT is NOT a prerequisite to a Championship. It's simply something that a talking hat put out there once, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Rogers, Brady, and Manning did great for years without Elite LT's. In fact, most of the "Elite" left Tackles are on crappy teams...doesn't seem to make their QB's any better.

Truth is, with an average line, and great receivers, any QB can shine....look at what Flynn did in Green Bay. That certainly wasn't because Chad Clifton is a beast...Clifton has been recycled so many times it's amazing he's still in the game.

Further, just because there are a shortage of line players in this draft doesn't mean that the one's available are "must have" players. The fact remains that the teams winning championships have strong passing games (because they have good QB's and WR's), and strong defenses....or, to follow the Green bay model, have such a strong passing game that no one can outscore them (Except the Giants in January...roflmao).

So, for MY money, I'd rather see us load up on WR's. Following that, I'd like to see some solid DB's brought in, as well as LB upgrades. I had originally wanted a QB, but the two worth chasing are already off the table so...

As for LT, I think it will be a wasted pick if we take Kalil. Sure, he may turn out to be great, but it won't help us where we need it most.

Caine

Our O-line is terrible and a great LT is a great start. And we solve two problems, we have a LT and a LG because we can move Charlie Johnson inside where he is a better fit. So if we draft Kalil we will be upgrading two positions not one. If we don't take Kalil I hope we trade back and go after Claiborne, I am not sold on Blackmon. If we trade with Miami we could get floyd. I hope we get Claiborne, there are a lot fo WR that I like that are similar to Blackmon and other that are an intriguing choice for me. So many WRs and DBs in this draft and the O-line is so thin I think Kalil is our best choice at #3.

Originally Posted by Caine

I would argue that the two most important skill positions are QB and WR. Having an Elite LT is NOT a prerequisite to a Championship. It's simply something that a talking hat put out there once, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

Rogers, Brady, and Manning did great for years without Elite LT's. In fact, most of the "Elite" left Tackles are on crappy teams...doesn't seem to make their QB's any better.

Truth is, with an average line, and great receivers, any QB can shine....look at what Flynn did in Green Bay. That certainly wasn't because Chad Clifton is a beast...Clifton has been recycled so many times it's amazing he's still in the game.

Further, just because there are a shortage of line players in this draft doesn't mean that the one's available are "must have" players. The fact remains that the teams winning championships have strong passing games (because they have good QB's and WR's), and strong defenses....or, to follow the Green bay model, have such a strong passing game that no one can outscore them (Except the Giants in January...roflmao).

So, for MY money, I'd rather see us load up on WR's. Following that, I'd like to see some solid DB's brought in, as well as LB upgrades. I had originally wanted a QB, but the two worth chasing are already off the table so...

As for LT, I think it will be a wasted pick if we take Kalil. Sure, he may turn out to be great, but it won't help us where we need it most.

Caine

While you do have a point about those QB's... they also are elite QB's that get rid of the ball very quickly bc they recognize coverages and manipulate the defense... We don't have an elite QB... so a tackle is warranted.. Additionally, most of those top teams are good for other reasons and therefore don't draft high enough to get an elite LT...
I can't disagree more about Brady... Have you seen a pats game?? Dude sits back there "literally sits" picks his nose, scratches his ass etc. Brady has all day to throw..

BTW, we gave up the 5th most sacks last year... I highly disagree our line could even remotely be considered "average"... AD led the league in hits behind the line of scrimmage....

We need a lot and a LT is among the biggest areas of need... maybe more than a corner since everyone is healthy for once...

Originally Posted by Caine

Truth is, with an average line, and great receivers, any QB can shine....look at what Flynn did in Green Bay. That certainly wasn't because Chad Clifton is a beast...Clifton has been recycled so many times it's amazing he's still in the game.

Caine

For a so called average LT, Clifton sure has been able to handle JA one on one. I think you're selling him a bit short.

"Give him time to throw," Kalil told the Star Tribune on Sunday. "Honestly. It's that simple. It's about making that quarterback feel more comfortable in the pocket, that he can trust that he can get that extra read and get that extra second knowing he's not going to be getting hit from behind or speared in the back. I think a quarterback's confidence is everything."

NFL draft preview: offensive linemen | StarTribune.com

Originally Posted by singersp

NFL draft preview: offensive linemen | StarTribune.com

Spielman has said a "functional" left tackle might have the same value. But will he prove it by passing on Kalil?

Caine & Spielman are thinking alike.....

Originally Posted by singersp

Caine & Spielman are thinking alike.....

In this ONE instance, I agree with him.

A PREMIER LT absorbs a lot of cap space...space better used developing a WR corps. Further, a Premier LT only makes the LT position premier...we have other line issues as well.

It's like putting expensive rims and tires on a POS car....

Your transmission slips, the exhaust is broken, the engine misfires regularly, the windows won't roll down, the heater/air-conditioner is busted, and half the time it won't start....

...but it's got some damn nice tires and rims....

Like Cleveland with joe Thomas.

I think that a FUNCTIONAL LT will serve us better than an elite one - SO LONG AS WE USE THE $$$$ SAVED TO UPGRADE THE WR POSITION. That is where we need the most help IMO.

Caine

Originally Posted by Caine

In this ONE instance, I agree with him.

A PREMIER LT absorbs a lot of cap space...space better used developing a WR corps. Further, a Premier LT only makes the LT position premier...we have other line issues as well.

It's like putting expensive rims and tires on a POS car....

Your transmission slips, the exhaust is broken, the engine misfires regularly, the windows won't roll down, the heater/air-conditioner is busted, and half the time it won't start....

...but it's got some damn nice tires and rims....

Like Cleveland with joe Thomas.

I think that a FUNCTIONAL LT will serve us better than an elite one - SO LONG AS WE USE THE $$$$ SAVED TO UPGRADE THE WR POSITION. That is where we need the most help IMO.

Caine

That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard... Spend LT money on developing receivers?? Seriously?? Successful teams are built from the inside out... getting Khalil would be upgrading 2 positions, LT and LG bc Cjohnson moves to the LG. It would give Ponder more time making him better, More time for Receivers to get open and bigger holes for AP to run through...

With the changes we've made on the line, Khalil would be the best prospect to draft.. Not only is it about making our team better, he's the best player or value for the pick we have.... besides maybe Claiborne...

I don't think it's about putting rims on a crappy car.. the OLine is more or less the most important unit on the team outside of QB... arguably... without a solid O-Line, your not gonna get the extra time to throw, get open, or those few precious inches that could decide the game...

You can't just put anybody on the left side of the line.. We did that last year and we ended up giving up the 5th most sacks in the league last year and AP was hit behind the LOS more than any other back last year.. not to mention he missed like 4 games...

Originally Posted by bleedpurple

That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard... Spend LT money on developing receivers?? Seriously?? Successful teams are built from the inside out... getting Khalil would be upgrading 2 positions, LT and LG bc Cjohnson moves to the LG. It would give Ponder more time making him better, More time for Receivers to get open and bigger holes for AP to run through...

With the changes we've made on the line, Khalil would be the best prospect to draft.. Not only is it about making our team better, he's the best player or value for the pick we have.... besides maybe Claiborne...

I don't think it's about putting rims on a crappy car.. the OLine is more or less the most important unit on the team outside of QB... arguably... without a solid O-Line, your not gonna get the extra time to throw, get open, or those few precious inches that could decide the game...

You can't just put anybody on the left side of the line.. We did that last year and we ended up giving up the 5th most sacks in the league last year and AP was hit behind the LOS more than any other back last year.. not to mention he missed like 4 games...

Are you sure we were 5th? Our OL gave up 49 sacks last year. What 4 teams gave up more? I don't think any.

I agree with Caine that we have a great need for decent WR's, but our front line needs to be addressed first.

It would be hard for Ponder to hit those elite WR's while lying on the turf.

If we don't address the OL, I wonder how many sacks they'll give up with the best blocking TE in the league now enjoying retirement?

It's easy to point to the Patriots and Packers and say that we don't need an elite LT, but their OL's, QB, and Coaches are much much better than us. And I disagree with you on the Patriots. Matt Light is a beast of a LT, and the Packers have a pretty decent OL. Get a good OL and let Ponder get comfortable and WRs will get better. They are a dime a dozen