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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Everyone forgets that we were a stone throw away from a Superbowl by use of FA. Yes we can point to the Packers who have had a great amount of Luck in their drafts and fielded a great team. However, what about the like of the Ravens. Who went out and signed Boldin because they felt they needs a legit #1 WR? Signed Mac because they needed a LT, Signed countless Cbs because they need help there to assist their Superstars. That team is always in contention.

    The truth of the matter is that the league has about 3 team with amazing FOs that can build a team via the draft only. The rest of the league cannot. We can't even get a 3rd round pick to be on our team after 3 years.
    Yeah, we spent all of that money and had a one year window of opportunity before the CAP hits kicked in and we started to hemorrhage players and were forced to cut or trade vets because we couldn't pay their escalated salaries.

    What have those FA's gotten the Ravens? It seems to me they built their team and won a SB a decade ago with a team mostly built through the draft. Now they are trying to fill holes in FA and they can't get past the first game of the playoffs.

    The common thread in all of the top 3 is they have a franchise QB, great coaching and a FO that understands building football teams. We have Zero of those 3 at this point and we could spend every nickel in the bank on overpriced free agents and that fact is not going to change. Although signing a franchise QB would be a good first step.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Yeah, we spent all of that money and had a one year window of opportunity before the CAP hits kicked in and we started to hemorrhage players and were forced to cut or trade vets because we couldn't pay their escalated salaries.

    What have those FA's gotten the Ravens? It seems to me they built their team and won a SB a decade ago with a team mostly built through the draft. Now they are trying to fill holes in FA and they can't get past the first game of the playoffs.

    The common thread in all of the top 3 is they have a franchise QB, great coaching and a FO that understands building football teams. We have Zero of those 3 at this point and we could spend every nickel in the bank on overpriced free agents and that fact is not going to change. Although signing a franchise QB would be a good first step.
    Wrong, we had more than a 1 year window. We had 3 solid years that were WASTED by inept QB play. Don't give me that 1 year Crap. We were a dynamic team and should have won in 2009, contested in 2008 and 2007 but we settled for MEDICORITY AT KEY POSITIONS ON THE FIELD (WR, QB etc). Even with that crap in 2008 we were 10-6 and in 2007 we were 8 and 8 behind TJack and Brooks Bollinger.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post

    The common thread in all of the top 3 is they have a franchise QB, great coaching and a FO that understands building football teams. We have Zero of those 3 at this point and we could spend every nickel in the bank on overpriced free agents and that fact is not going to change. Although signing a franchise QB would be a good first step.
    So you admit we don't have a good front office to draft a new team but you support them in building thru the draft? Don't blame the ravens for always being competitive but not getting over the hump. I rather be in the chase every year than whatever it is we are doing.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Wrong, we had more than a 1 year window. We had 3 solid years that were WASTED by inept QB play. Don't give me that 1 year Crap. We were a dynamic team and should have won in 2009, contested in 2008 and 2007 but we settled for MEDICORITY AT KEY POSITIONS ON THE FIELD (WR, QB etc). Even with that crap in 2008 we were 10-6 and in 2007 we were 8 and 8 behind TJack and Brooks Bollinger.

    Contested in 2008? How exactly?

    QB: Who should we have gone with? Brees probably wasn't an option. Sure, we coudl try guys like Garcia and Carr, but there wasn't really anybody who would be a future franchise QB available to us. We were too low in the draft to pick one up and we had too many holes to trade for a guy like Cutler. Especially in 2007, coming off a 6-10 season... Contender? GTFO.

    Due to being patient in 2006/2007, we got some good players and assembled a good team in 09 that just needed a QB to win. We got that, and lost due to a coaching/turnovers. 2010 comes, and we started losing players due to injuries/salary cap.

    2009 (you can argue 2008) was our ONE YEAR to make a championship run. Why? Because we built the theam with free agents. If you do that, and miss your window, you go back into rebuild mode. Note teams like the Steelers, Giants, Packers, Pats, etc. seem poised to do well for years in a row. Why? Because they don't build through free agency. They sign a few key players to complete the team, but are mostly built with draftees.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    Contested in 2008? How exactly?

    QB: Who should we have gone with? Brees probably wasn't an option. Sure, we coudl try guys like Garcia and Carr, but there wasn't really anybody who would be a future franchise QB available to us. We were too low in the draft to pick one up and we had too many holes to trade for a guy like Cutler. Especially in 2007, coming off a 6-10 season... Contender? GTFO.

    Due to being patient in 2006/2007, we got some good players and assembled a good team in 09 that just needed a QB to win. We got that, and lost due to a coaching/turnovers. 2010 comes, and we started losing players due to injuries/salary cap.

    2009 (you can argue 2008) was our ONE YEAR to make a championship run. Why? Because we built the theam with free agents. If you do that, and miss your window, you go back into rebuild mode. Note teams like the Steelers, Giants, Packers, Pats, etc. seem poised to do well for years in a row. Why? Because they don't build through free agency. They sign a few key players to complete the team, but are mostly built with draftees.
    We won 10 games with Gus ]and T. Jackson. 10 freaking games. Thats a deep playoff team with Garcia easily. The Giants and Pats should be removed from your list of teams. The Gmen sign as much as they draft. They draft DEs but both their Depth at Safety is mostly due to Signings, Lb as well. The fact remains they fill their needs.

    My point still remains, I am not trying to have us buy a team, however, we have serious needs. We aren't going to draft 8 guys that will start this season. They is no harm in filling positions while we build a competitive team. If you think signing a 25 year All Pro TE is a good idea, why not do the same for a real area of need....say CB/S/Lb/WR/G/T/FB

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    We won 10 games with Gus ]and T. Jackson. 10 freaking games. Thats a deep playoff team with Garcia easily. The Giants and Pats should be removed from your list of teams. The Gmen sign as much as they draft. They draft DEs but both their Depth at Safety is mostly due to Signings, Lb as well. The fact remains they fill their needs.
    I already showed you they don't. They sign backups, but most of their impact players were all drafted with the exception of two. Pats sign a few key players, but they all come cheap. They don't spend on free agents. They draft smart, have a good scheme and get players that fit what they want to do. We don't do any of that.

    My point still remains, I am not trying to have us buy a team, however, we have serious needs. We aren't going to draft 8 guys that will start this season. They is no harm in filling positions while we build a competitive team. If you think signing a 25 year All Pro TE is a good idea, why not do the same for a real area of need....say CB/S/Lb/WR/G/T/FB
    And no, we aren't going to sign 8 guys that will start each other. The point of this offseason is not to become a superbowl contending team. It's to get some building blocks to build a successful franchise.

    Quick question. Who should we sign if you think FA is the answer? Please, enlighten us.

    I'd assume you'll say Nicks, probably Landry or Atogwe, draft Kalil, sign Bell, pick up a LB. Our cap space is gone at this point. Next year, it will be even worse. We still won't be winning games even with those signigns, so how exactly does that help us?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    So you admit we don't have a good front office to draft a new team but you support them in building thru the draft? Don't blame the ravens for always being competitive but not getting over the hump. I rather be in the chase every year than whatever it is we are doing.
    What is so hard to understand? I am not convinced they are good enough to build through the draft but I am already convinced they can't build through FA because they already did it and they ended up with too many expiring contracts and not any cap space to sign them. They also got too old too fast. It isn't that hard to understand.

    So in this case I am more eager to see them try to build a team with young players through the draft because if they prove me wrong and get it right we will have a good team for an extended time and if they fail there will be no where to hide for the whole staff from top to bottom and they can all get changed over to hopefully a better staff.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    Quick question. Who should we sign if you think FA is the answer? Please, enlighten us.
    So you think we can replace all these players who have played during the year with the 10 picks we have on the draft? How do you plan on doing that & improving the team at the same time without adding talent via FA?

    Devin Aromashodu
    Greg Camarillo
    Jim Kleinsasser
    Visanthe Shiancoe
    Anthony Herrera
    Steve Hutchinson
    E.J. Henderson
    Erin Henderson
    Kenny Onatolu
    Cedric Griffin
    Benny Sapp
    Husain Abdullah (possibly resigning)
    Tyrell Johnson

    BTW, that isn't the full list of Vikings FA, this is, although some are long gone;
    KFFL - 2012 NFL Free Agents

    The above list also doesn't address upgrading other positions with starters on them in need of up grading. For instance, if we draft Kalil to replace Johnson (who's not a FA) at LT, it leaves 9 picks to fill all the voids.

    That is of course counting on all 10 draft picks to pan out/be better than who we lost.

    On a side note, looking at all those FA, it's hard to believe it only freed up $28 mil in cap space after signing a few FA of our own.
    Last edited by singersp; 03-20-2012 at 09:42 PM.

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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    So you think we can replace all these players who have played during the year with the 10 picks we have on the draft? How do you plan on doing that & improving the team at the same time without adding talent via FA?

    Devin Aromashodu
    Greg Camarillo
    Jim Kleinsasser
    Visanthe Shiancoe
    Anthony Herrera
    Steve Hutchinson
    E.J. Henderson
    Erin Henderson
    Kenny Onatolu
    Cedric Griffin
    Benny Sapp
    Husain Abdullah (possibly resigning)
    Tyrell Johnson

    BTW, that isn't the full list of Vikings FA, this is, although some are long gone;
    KFFL - 2012 NFL Free Agents

    The above list also doesn't address upgrading other positions with starters on them in need of up grading. For instance, if we draft Kalil to replace Johnson (who's not a FA) at LT, it leaves 9 picks to fill all the voids.

    That is of course counting on all 10 draft picks to pan out/be better than who we lost.

    On a side note, looking at all those FA, it's hard to believe it only freed up $28 mil in cap space after signing a few FA of our own.
    Alright mr. football GM guru, since you obviously have this all planned out. How do you think we're turning this team into a contender in one year?

    We're Not. What we will do, sign some players as depth players, re-sign a couple players (hopefully Erin Henderson and Aromashodu), and draft some players. Bring in some UFA's, a couple of which will make the team. We'll still suck, but ideally, we'll draft well and have three future starters, and four or so really solid backups. Next year, if there's a FA or two that would be great additions, super. Rinse and repeat.

    We should not be signing any FA who happens to come our way. That's how teams get in cap trouble. All the good teams draft the core of their team, and sign a couple key players who fit what they do well. The rest of their FA signings are low-key depth players.

    What is so hard to understand about this? Yes, we have a ton of holes, and yes, we'll sign a few more players, but don't expect any starters. (or should I say starting-quality players, we all know they'll invetiabely end up as starters)

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    There are only one or two notable FAs in that entire list. I think PF's point is still valid.
    I don't.

    His claim was GB hadn't drafted anyone since 2007. Clearly they did. Several of them in fact.

    It's easy to sit back after the fact & say only a few of them are big name players, but what was GB's intent for those players when they first signed them?

    Whether they became legit starters or is irrelevant. You can't say they were all signed with the expectation that none of them would become starters & they were all POS fillers until the players they drafted, whose NFL play was unknown, would come in & replace them. Surely GB would have loved for more of those FA's to become legit starters.

    Let's also not forget how many of their own FA's that they re-signed that weren't even listed. They didn't simply let them all walk & sign elsewhere and replace them with younger draftees. They resigned them.

    The thing is with GB, if they had a hole to fill or were short on depth they addressed it thru both FA & the draft. They weren't necessarily always big name FA players, but the point is, they filled the voids.

    No one here is saying the Vikings need to fill all of their holes & depth shortage with Pro Bowl caliber FA's, but there are some key positions that you would like to have legitimate starters in them.

    There are also holes that simply need filling period.

    We lost 2 starting guards, 2 starting LB's & 2 other LB's who saw playing time. We also lost 2 starting CB's that have been starters, 2 starting TE's, a starting WR & a backup WR. We also have 3 SS in FA, but do have an abundance of S on the roster.

    That list doesn't include the glaring needs we have at LT & depth at WR.

    So far in FA, we addressed 1, count them, 1 of those major holes & we didn't upgrade from what we had.

    What are the chances of filling all of those remaining positions with younger talent via the draft with just 10 picks?

    Rebuilding via the draft, how many years do you feel it will take to acquire enough drafted players to reach the level of talent of all the vets we lost?

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