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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I'm not against adding an athletic TE. I am against paying him starter money.
    He will probably be the starter, why shouldn't he get starter money?
    We all love Rudolph, he made some nice catches and showed soft hands, but he only caught 26 balls playing in all 16 games and starting for 8 of them. In Carlson's rookie season he caught 55 balls, and started 9 games. Carlson also had slightly better numbers at Notre Dame.
    At the very least it will be a competition for playing time between the two.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I'm not against adding an athletic TE. I am against paying him starter money.
    When he'll be playing most of the offensive snaps, I'm fine with whatever you deem to be starter money:

    (oh, and for reference:
    Gates: 6-year, $40 mil
    Witten: 5-year, $37 mil
    Davis: 6-year, $42.7 mil
    Daniels: 4-year, $22 mil
    Cooley: 6-year, $30 mil

    He does NOT make Davis/Gates money, he makes competive money for above average TE's in the league. LIke it or not, we're not going with a 3-wide 1 TE set very much. It'll be alot of 2 TE sets, which requires we need 2 decent TE's.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    When he'll be playing most of the offensive snaps, I'm fine with whatever you deem to be starter money:

    (oh, and for reference:
    Gates: 6-year, $40 mil
    Witten: 5-year, $37 mil
    Davis: 6-year, $42.7 mil
    Daniels: 4-year, $22 mil
    Cooley: 6-year, $30 mil

    He does NOT make Davis/Gates money, he makes competive money for above average TE's in the league. LIke it or not, we're not going with a 3-wide 1 TE set very much. It'll be alot of 2 TE sets, which requires we need 2 decent TE's.
    You list Gates, Witten, and Davis and say this is for above average TEs?
    My point is, in our offense our TEs did shit. They will continue to do Shit because we do not have a good team. We just cut our two starting guards. Which means out TE will have to block even more than last year. All of the TEs you mentioned have been productive minus C.C.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    He will probably be the starter, why shouldn't he get starter money?
    We all love Rudolph, he made some nice catches and showed soft hands, but he only caught 26 balls playing in all 16 games and starting for 8 of them. In Carlson's rookie season he caught 55 balls, and started 9 games. Carlson also had slightly better numbers at Notre Dame.
    At the very least it will be a competition for playing time between the two.
    I can't believe people are saying this is a good idea.

    We dont have a starting

    FS
    SS
    WLB
    MLB
    LCB and the other is coming off of IR and is 35+
    WR#2 is Emmanuel Arceneaux

    And you guys think that signing a 2nd TE to a lucrative deal is a good idea!!!!!!
    Lol. We are easily the worst team in the league right now.

    My point is good teams get better because they address their issues. The Bucs are looking like they might be the worst team in their division or at least in a fight with the Panthers. They go out and they fix their issues. They address their team to make them competitive. They may not take over the Saints of the Falcons for the best team in the division but if they do nothing they definitely will not be competitive. We are terrible at drafting. Our scouting department is in love with late round picks that due nothing for the team. We trade back in the 4th and 5th and collect tons of crap picks. We need to package those picks and live in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    You list Gates, Witten, and Davis and say this is for above average TEs?
    My point is, in our offense our TEs did shit. They will continue to do Shit because we do not have a good team. We just cut our two starting guards. Which means out TE will have to block even more than last year. All of the TEs you mentioned have been productive minus C.C.
    apparently you have your monitor still on 620*480 resolution, and scrolling down to view the rest of my post is too much work for you. Understandable. Let me help you. I included Owen Daniels and Chris cooley. Keller will make 3 mill in base salary this year, comparable. Comparable to other above average te's in the league as well.

    The thing is, the bucs have a qb, they have receivers, they have some tools on defense. They are a few fas away from being good. We are not. We can't buy a competitive team, why compromise our cap situation just so we can stock up on fas that will be gone by the time we actually become good. Like it or not, we'll only build a winner by drafting and signing a few key fas to build around. If we can't feet well, then we need a staff change. What better way than exposing spielman as the worthless turd he is?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I can't believe people are saying this is a good idea.

    We dont have a starting

    FS
    SS
    WLB
    MLB
    LCB and the other is coming off of IR and is 35+
    WR#2 is Emmanuel Arceneaux

    And you guys think that signing a 2nd TE to a lucrative deal is a good idea!!!!!!
    Lol. We are easily the worst team in the league right now.

    My point is good teams get better because they address their issues. The Bucs are looking like they might be the worst team in their division or at least in a fight with the Panthers. They go out and they fix their issues. They address their team to make them competitive. They may not take over the Saints of the Falcons for the best team in the division but if they do nothing they definitely will not be competitive. We are terrible at drafting. Our scouting department is in love with late round picks that due nothing for the team. We trade back in the 4th and 5th and collect tons of crap picks. We need to package those picks and live in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
    Just because we have other needs doesn't mean that signing a TE isn't a good deal. (especially one that will complement Rudolph in 2 TE sets)

    Yes, we have lots of needs. And No, we aren't making a lot of headway against those needs. I listened to Rick Speilman yesterday on KFAN, and it sounds like that was the plan all along. He definitely wants to BUILD a team, not sign one. If it works, it is a great strategy. If it doesn't, well, we'll know that soon enough.

    I am OK with being patient and seeing what happens over the entire offseason and regular season. I am OK with giving him the chance to succeed or fail.

    I honestly believe that we are going to shore up our offense first, and then work on the defense. Let's face it - offense sells tickets. Pick up Kahlil and a top tier WR in the draft (maybe even trading up if Blackmon falls out of the top ten - not likely, but possible). Pick up a new RG in the early third. Suddenly with a revamped OL and new targets for Ponder, our offense may start to be fun to watch again.

    yes, that means that we are going to have holes still on defense. And to be fair, we probably would be in the top ten against next draft. But then we would be able to concentrate on the defense...

    As a fanatic, I want to win now. As a fan, I want to see us in the Superbowl in the next 5 years. I wish I knew the best way to get there. I am leery of Speilman's tactics, but I can see the potential in them.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I can't believe people are saying this is a good idea.

    We dont have a starting

    FS
    SS
    WLB
    MLB
    LCB and the other is coming off of IR and is 35+
    WR#2 is Emmanuel Arceneaux

    And you guys think that signing a 2nd TE to a lucrative deal is a good idea!!!!!!
    Lol. We are easily the worst team in the league right now.

    My point is good teams get better because they address their issues. The Bucs are looking like they might be the worst team in their division or at least in a fight with the Panthers. They go out and they fix their issues. They address their team to make them competitive. They may not take over the Saints of the Falcons for the best team in the division but if they do nothing they definitely will not be competitive. We are terrible at drafting. Our scouting department is in love with late round picks that due nothing for the team. We trade back in the 4th and 5th and collect tons of crap picks. We need to package those picks and live in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
    Again, it's not like we signed carlson at the expense of signing nicks. We were obviously never going after nicks. Oj and landry are still available. We have 25 mil in space, why not spend? Even if every dime of Carlson's contract counts against the cap, we still have 18 mill, better than half the teams in the league.

    Spielman evidently had a plan for fa, which isn't to sign allot of players. THERE is absolutely no reason that this was a bad move. You claim money, but are you paying him? Didn't think so. Does it hurt or cap shape? Didn't think so. Does it give us a needed te, a position of which we now only have one real player on the roster? Sure does. Does it give us a younger player who will be with us for five years, insurance if Rudolph gets hurt? Yep.

  8. #108
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I can't believe people are saying this is a good idea.

    We dont have a starting

    FS
    SS
    WLB
    MLB
    LCB and the other is coming off of IR and is 35+
    WR#2 is Emmanuel Arceneaux

    And you guys think that signing a 2nd TE to a lucrative deal is a good idea!!!!!!
    Lol. We are easily the worst team in the league right now.

    My point is good teams get better because they address their issues. The Bucs are looking like they might be the worst team in their division or at least in a fight with the Panthers. They go out and they fix their issues. They address their team to make them competitive. They may not take over the Saints of the Falcons for the best team in the division but if they do nothing they definitely will not be competitive. We are terrible at drafting. Our scouting department is in love with late round picks that due nothing for the team. We trade back in the 4th and 5th and collect tons of crap picks. We need to package those picks and live in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
    We have many needs, and they will be addressed in the draft. There is a lack of TE in this draft, which is why they knew they had to get a FA TE.
    If they Vikings were to try to fill every hole through free agency we would be over the cap. Instead they will attempt to fill holes with the draft, and then based on how those rookies pan out fill the gaps that remain with FA.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I can't believe people are saying this is a good idea.

    We dont have a starting

    FS
    SS
    WLB
    MLB
    LCB and the other is coming off of IR and is 35+
    WR#2 is Emmanuel Arceneaux

    And you guys think that signing a 2nd TE to a lucrative deal is a good idea!!!!!!
    Lol. We are easily the worst team in the league right now.

    My point is good teams get better because they address their issues. The Bucs are looking like they might be the worst team in their division or at least in a fight with the Panthers. They go out and they fix their issues. They address their team to make them competitive. They may not take over the Saints of the Falcons for the best team in the division but if they do nothing they definitely will not be competitive. We are terrible at drafting. Our scouting department is in love with late round picks that due nothing for the team. We trade back in the 4th and 5th and collect tons of crap picks. We need to package those picks and live in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
    So because we have other needs, we should ignore this one?

    Shiancoe is a free agent, Kleinsasser retired and Dugan is... Dugan.

    You just assume that the coaching staff is going to make Kyle Rudolph the #1 guy. He's a second year guy who showed some flashes. Mistral Raymond showed some flashes - why should we bother going after a safety?

    9 months from now I might tell you this was a shitty signing, but I'm gonna try to look at it from an objective perspective right now. I didn't expect them to spend on a tight end, but they did. My feelings aren't hurt. As much as I've questioned this team, they know a hell of a lot more than I do, and obviously they like this guy. Maybe the plan for this years team was different than last? I think they expected too much from McNabb and had to scrap the whole plan when they realized he was the worst QB in the league. Didn't you want us to sign him? There is almost no way Carlson has a season worse than McNabb did in 2011. And we paid McNabb $5 million last season.

    You were wrong about McNabb. Can you admit you might be wrong about this? No one is saying this a slam dunk, guaranteed great deal for us, merely that it's not that bad, even potentially good. You are making it out to be horrible, with no real reasoning other than "we have other needs" and phony contract claims about Vernon Davis or Antonio Gates with exclamation points and smilies.

  10. #110
    skum's Avatar
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    Al he is saying is that OL, DB's and WR's are more pressing needs and giving 25 million with 11 guaranteed seems illogic, even if we use many two-TE sets id rather have given the shot to Reisner, Shuler or an UDFA, saved the money and targeted one of the many OL's, WR's or DB's on the market.


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