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  1. #1
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    Packer Post Game Chat Log

    From JS Online. Read it from the bottom up.

    MONDAY, OCT. 11 (Titans-Packers postgame)
    Cliff Christl
    Journal Sentinel Packer Insider columnist

    Cliff Christl answered your questions after the Titans-Packers Monday night game.

    Q: Sol Rosenburg of Upstate - Are the Packers Management team wasting the end of Brett Favre's talented career? He is still sharp and courageous, but the defense is the worst I have ever seen, including the Lynn Dickey-Jefferson-Lofton era under Bart Starr. These interior lineman and DBs are so clueless.

    A: Cliff Christl - As bad as the '83 defense? I wouldn't go that far. Don't you remember Daryle Skaugtad? In fact, I'm heading to bed now. With Daryle Skaugstad on my mind, I'm sure to have sweet dreams. With him at nose tackle, it was like playing with 10 guys. Come to think of it, did the Packers play with 11 on defense tonight? They could have fooled all of us.
    Q: Rodney of Sacramento - Hi cliff. I'm telling ya, Barnett is not a MLB; Diggs is not a weakside; Kampman is not a starter; Sharper & Hunt must give alot of that money back; The Wr's are not smart; Green must sit to get the message; I've never liked the coaches. What, if any, do you agree with cliff?

    A: Cliff Christl - I think Barnett is struggling without Jackson, but I also think he's playing as well as anybody on defense. He hustles and makes some plays. Brian Urlacher struggled when he didn't have big DTs protecting him. Ray Lewis had a bad game against KC when linemen were able to get out on him. More than anything, Jackson eats up blockers. Their DTs now can be blocked with one man. That makes a big difference. I also think Kampman plays the run better than maybe anybody in their front seven. As for Sharper, I think they might be using him wrong. I've always thought he's at his best playing center field. I've said that for two years in these chats. That's why I didn't buy into the idea that he'd be more effective taking on a more diversified and expanded role. Hunt isn't a nose tackle; and he's inconsistent as a three-technique. Diggs is an Ok player. You can't bench Ahman Green. His fumbles have been costly, but he's still the second best player on the team. I think Walker and Driver are playing pretty well. Ferguson is a good player, nothing more.
    Q: Mike Hadler of Minneapolis, MN - Hi Chris, what an ugly game for the Packers tonight. It's obvious the end of an era and the season for the Green & Gold, but do you think that there is any way that Favre will come back to endure another season under Mike Sherman and his motley crew? I understand that the players have to make plays, but after watching 4 straight losses, it's apparent that it's not all on the players. What are your thoughts on this Packer debacle?

    A: Cliff Christl - My only complaint was that it took forever to play the game. The length of some of these games is ridiculous. In fact, I can't imagine with Tivo -- is that what that recording device on my TV that my wife always has to set up for me is called? -- why anybody would even watch a game live anymore. Tape it, watch it tomorrow, skip the commercials and it will take half the time.
    Q: Mike McKenzie of Nawlins' - Christl, Sherman's idiot. No wonder I got the [bleep] out of there.

    A: Cliff Christl - Do you really believe it matters to me if you think I'm an idiot? You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself because I could care less. In fact, I'm glad you do. I wouldn't want you to think anything else of me.
    Q: SledDogFred of Laurium - Cliff...Here's a "Watergate" question for you.."What did Mckenzie know, and when did he know it ?"

    A: Cliff Christl - Before any of us?
    Q: Scott of Sunnyvale, CA - Tonight was obviously a poor night from all angles. But it seems to me that the overall talent level on the team has slipped each year since Mike Sherman has been the GM, because of lots of bad draft and free agency decisions. I think the Packers need to hire a GM after the season. Do you agree?

    A: Cliff Christl - I disagree with your statement that this team has been getting worse each year. The Packers were a better team in 2001 than they were in 2000. They would have been a better team in 2002 than they were in 2001 if it hadn't been for some critical injuries. They were a better team in 2003 than they were in 2002. They've taken a slide backward in 2004. But part of me thinks this is the best thing that could happen to the Packers, assuming Favre doesn't retire following the season. Get a top 10, 12 pick, use the two picks in the second round and that might be all it takes to get back in the hunt. They'd have to draft wisely, but Sherman has had a pretty good track record in the first round. Better than Ron Wolf.
    Q: John of Los Gatos, CA - Ouch! This is more than Michael Hawthorne. Sharper isn't making plays, KGB, Hunt, Diggs neither. This is a bad defense. Cliff, what do you think can be done to salvage the season?

    A: Cliff Christl - Probably nothing. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. I don't think this team has a prayer of winning the Super Bowl.
    Q: Brian Murphy of Crystal, MN - Cliff, Do you agree that Mike Sherman the GM deserves to be fired immediatley and replaced in that copacity, or do you keep waiting til the Packers are finished with a 6-10 or worse record? Quite often, fans are criticized as being fanatics and uneducated. Quite often, coaches and NFL personnel make terrible decisions that seem to be obvious to fans. The reasons are often political. When the Packers hired BOB SLOWIK as defnesive coordinator, I KNEW that we were doomed so much that I bet heavily on the under 10 for wins on the season for us. That is like stealing. You may try and defend Sherman again, but the facts are in the performance of the defense. You cannot sugarcoat it any longer. Grady Jackson is great, as I said when we signed him after the Saints dumped him. But the loss of one guy should never hurt a defense like this. Then the drafting of BJ Sander (ANY PUNTER) in the third round. That is totally INEXCUSABLE. Someone should be held accountable for these 2 catastrophic moves. Quicky. Ed Donnatel is laughing his ass off right now, as is Mike McKenzie. My only hope is that Favre stays healthy enough so that we can actually get a top 5 draft pick next season so people don't give them the excuse that they are alwways drafting lower than 20 so they never can get top talent. That's BS. We had a chance at Randy Moss in 1998, and he still haunts all teams. Clinton Portis and Ahman Green, Thurman Thomas, Terrell Davis were all drafted in the 2nd rounds or later, and so were more than half of the current Pro Bowlers on Defense in the NFC.

    A: Cliff Christl - I couldn't agree with you more. The fans are geniuses and the people running all the teams but New England are fools.
    Q: Bill Casper of Sarasota,FL - Cliff; Regarding your answer to Bill of Rinelander, if the Packers don't have the talent, particularly on the defensive side of the ball, then who is responsible for that? Please don't argue that their long -term success has created poor draft positioning. New England Denver, Tennessee, St Louis, have all fared better drafting in the same relative position. I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel without making some management changes. The Packers have been outcoached as well the last three weeks. I'm interested in your comments.

    A: Cliff Christl - The general manager is responsible. But I also still believe that the time to hire a new general manager is when you believe it's also time to hire a new coach. Otherwise, the new GM's authority is compromised from day one. As for some of the other teams you mentioned, Tennessee is 2-3. Are the Rams that good? Denver won the Super Bowl in '98 and fell to 6-10 in '99. It didn't make the playoffs in 2001 and 2002. I think that's partly why they have rebounded again; that and the Champ Bailey trade. The Titans and Rams haven't gotten back to the Super Bowl since 1999. The Patriots were fortunate that Tom Brady blossomed and Drew Bledsoe brought a No. 1 pick in a trade. I think that's one reason why the Patriots have been able to stay on top. To get better in the NFL, you normally need to draft high or stockpile extra picks. So I don't buy your theory that these other teams have stayed on top with the exception of the Patriots. The Titans were 7-9 in 2001; the Rams were 7-9 in 2002. I'm sure most of the Packer fans calling for Sherman's scalp would have been demanding that Shanahan be fired during his 6-10, 8-8 years; and that Martz and Fisher be fired when they fell below .500. Sometimes, it pays to stick with a coach through some tough years.
    Q: Wayne of Green Bay - OK, I don't think there is anything to say about the defense other than it sucks, it is the worst Packers defense that I can remember, and it may be the worst unit in the league. My question is, what is wrong with our running game? It got nothing on our first two drives when it was still a game. The line gets no push. Is this a result of the loss of Flanagan? Or have teams just figured out how to counter all of our blocking schemes?

    A: Cliff Christl - I'm sure the loss of Flanagan hurts. But you also can be sure the Titans' defensive game plan focused on stopping the run. And most defenses can stop the run if they make it a priority. Under those circumstances, it figures that the running game might take awhile to get untracked. Well, when you fall behind 17-0 in the first quarter, time is no longer on your side.
    Q: Carl Gerbschmidt of Elk Mound - Cliff, how damaging was this loss to the Packers organization?

    A: Cliff Christl - It's going to make it almost impossible to make the playoffs this year. Other than that, I don't know how damaging it was. I'm assuming everybody will come to work this morning and approach the next game like every other game.
    Q: Twinkie the Kid of Oconomowoc - So who do I have to kill to get Holmgren, Reid, or Gruden back on the Green Bay sidelines? Seriously, on a scale from "slim" to "none", what are the chances of throwing a big sweaty pile of money at a guy like Gruden? Is there any hope? I know he's 1-4 too, but he's a DYNAMIC 1-4. Sherman makes me feel like taking a bottle of Quaaludes every time I look at him on the sideline.

    A: Cliff Christl - A dynamic 1-4? 1-4 is 1-4.
    Q: PowerBall of Texas - Hey Cliff- Do the reporters from JS stay in Green Bay or drive back to Milwaukee after games and practices? That's the fluff question. When Sherman went with Slowik, and then basically used three picks to get a punter on top of a bad defense to begin with, did he really expect the results to be much different than what we are seeing. I'm not an expert at all, but I knew the moment that Slowik was promoted it was over, and the third round of the draft was basically sealing the deal on the defense. I feel bad for Sherman, but did he really expect that the rest of the NFL would show some mercy just because. Do you remember a worse defense in the last 20 years in Green Bay. This is beyond comprehension.

    A: Cliff Christl - Fourth-and-26. What did they do to improve themselves and to assure that it wouldn't happen again? Absolutely nothing other than changing coordinators.
    Q: Rod of Yuba City - Cliff, I want to vent. But you are the voice of reason. You are able to look at this from an objective stand point. I like that. I don't see the coordinators getting it done, nor the players. Tell me what the problem is, especially on defense. Please don't say the loss of G. Jackson. He's one guy. What about the rest?

    A: Cliff Christl - Grady Jackson's loss can't be minimized. Without him, the Packers are soft up the middle. And you can't be soft up the middle and expect to win in the NFL. But the Packers also should have known that Jackson was an injury waiting to happen before the season even started. He was overweight, limited in camp because of bad knees and getting up there in years. But you're right. You can't blame a performance like tonight on the loss of one player. Sherman and Slowik deserve the brunt of the blame. And, again, they set the tone when they started the season with Hawthorne at left corner. They were playing scared and they still are playing scared.
    Q: Martin of Waunakee, WI - Leaving Favre in the game borders on the criminally negligent. I agree with you re: hitting rock bottom and harvesting a high draft pick. But then I think these jokers should be run out on the rails, from Sherman on down to the scouts, secretaries, and janitors. A prideful organization is reeling.

    A: Cliff Christl - I agree about Favre. I remember the day Lynn Dickey was hurt. It was Bart Starr's fault. He was trying to score a meaningless touchdown to save face. Mike Sherman was doing the same thing tonight. Somebody should have whispered in his ear: Nothing that happens in the final quarter is going to erase the embarrassment of the first three. You're right: A proud franchise stooped mighty low tonight by keeping Favre in a game that was hopelessly lost.
    Q: Furious George of Hartland - As big of a knucklehead as Mike McKenzie might be, it's starting to look an awful lot like he was right about the defensive philosophy and the Packers' long-term prospects under Mike Sherman. Maybe it wasn't all about the money...

    A: Cliff Christl - Maybe it wasn't.
    Q: prickly pete of plano - Oh, boy...this is starting to sound like a Bears chat room rather than a Packers one. "Fire the coach! Fire the GM! Fire everybody!" (Not that I don't think those calls are warranted). This is probably a little like picking at a scab that is almost healed, but...Ray Rhodes got canned unceremoniously after he went 8-8 with basically the same team that went 11-5 the previous year. And he inherited those players, he had nothing to do with building that team. Fast forward to 10/11/04. It looks like sherman is going to have to go on one hell of a hot streak to finish at 8-8, and he has no one to blame but himself for the personell. Would it be fair to say that a precident has been set for what is and is not an acceptable regular season record in the Brett Favre era? Would we be able to reasonably assume that sherman should be fired following anything less than 8-8? I feel like the answer is yes.

    A: Cliff Christl - I would find it inexcusable if a team with Favre finished 8-8 or worse.
    Q: Luke of Madison - Cliff, did you see any Defensive back tonight make a play on the ball? It seemed like the Packer dbs were just running with the titan receivers and praying they wouldn't make the catch! It was real obvious on Berlin beating Carrol in the end zone, he didn't even look for the ball!

    A: Cliff Christl - I didn't think Al Harris played a bad game. He shadowed Derrick Mason, a quality receiver, for much of the game and didn't get burned for any big plays. Even Carroll made some aggressive plays. He was burned two, three times, but that was to be expected. He hadn't played since the opener. I thought the game was lost at the line of scrimmage and the second level.
    Q: RBH of Tyler Texas - Cliff- When a guy can coach and has proven as much, why change head coaches. Sherman can coach. It's dismal tonight and this season, but if we had more talent, we'd win. But we don't, and outside of Wolf returning, there isn't really a suitable GM situation given the circumstances. But since the GM and Headcoach don't have good internal debates, who is going to advise Sherman that he is so far off the mark it's sick when it comes to defense. Slowik has to be relieved of the position. He simply is in over his head. We can't go a season with him. Who plays devils advocate with Sherman. When you see thousands of fans exiting the stadium in the third qtr, I am positive that concession revenues took a huge hit. Someone is losing a ton of revenue over this. Clearly there is a level of ineptitude drawn in the sand somewhere that once you cross it, a change is forced upon you. In my mind it has been crossed, but at what point do changes occur in season. Is it 50 points allowed, 60 pts, 8 passing TD's in a game, 400 yard rushing. what is the bottom line of ineptitude on defense to cause change.

    A: Cliff Christl - That's the weakness in Green Bay with the GM-coach structure. There's nobody above Sherman that knows anything about football. But I don't think you gain anything by firing a GM or coach during the season. You're better off hitting rock bottom and getting a high draft pick. I'll say this: I can't imagine this team sinking to this level under Ron Wolf. A fall was inevitable. That's how the league is structured with the draft: The strong get weaker and the weak get stronger. But I think it's safe to assume that the depth would be better right now if Wolf hadn't retired. But he did and life goes on.
    Q: Completely Disgusted of Holmen - If Sherman is so intent on finding a roster spot for B.J Sander why doesn't he try him out at cornerback or DT? The defense is pretty much non-existent anyway, why not try to save a couple of bucks (especially at Cletius Hunt's position). Seriously though, if you were Mike Sherman what would you do to fix the defense?

    A: Cliff Christl - There isn't much that can be done at this point to dramatically improve the defense. Grady Jackson's return might help. Ahmad Carroll should remain at left cornerback, but he should have been the starter in week one. Let's face it, the defense is in shambles. The Packers worked all training camp on being an all-out blitz team and they've essentially abandoned that philosophy. Now, it's pretty much a vanilla defense. They play a 4-3 even on second-and-whatever, then switch to a dime on third-and-long. There doesn't seem to be any deception whatsoever.
    Q: AJ of Madison - in your opinion, Cliff, if the Packers finish 6-10 or worse, will Sherman be fired? or another way of asking the question is: how bad will it have to be for Sherman to be fired?

    A: Cliff Christl - If the bottom falls out, Bob Harlan will have to at least give thought to making some sort of change. But there's 11 games left in the season. The time for an owner or president to make decisions of that magnitude is when it's over.
    Q: Jim of Palo Alto - Earlier this year I asked if you thought Sherman might not be the Devine of this century. You said that Devine was in a class by himself. Do you still feel that way?

    A: Cliff Christl - Dan Devine was in a class by himself. He knew nothing about football and maybe even less about dealing with pro players.
    Q: dave of west allis - Hi, Cliff, Let's just pretend for a moment that Harlan blows a gasket and fires sherman as head coach, along with all his staff. Who are some head coach candidates out there? Should the packers go the retread route, pluck a coordinator from another team, or try to lure a Saban-like guy from the college ranks? What's typically the fastest road to respectability when hiring a new head coach?

    A: Cliff Christl - Well, look at Dallas and Washington. Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs have Hall of Fame credentials. How are those teams doing? How's Norv Turner, everybody's resident genius, doing in Oakland? The 49ers went the retread route with Dennis Erickson. The Bengals hired a hot name among assistants when they hired Marvin Lewis. How are those teams doing? Butch Davis came from the University of Miami? How's Cleveland doing this year? Get the drift? I see no cure-all.
    Q: Donnie of Rock Falls - What will it take to get Sherman out of here!!!! I am a life long Packer fan and I have never been more discouraged with a Packer team than I am with this one. You can say it's not Sherman because all of the GB media handle him with kid gloves. But this is all Sherman he picked the players, and more importantly he picked his coordinators which I think are the biggest problem. He has to be held accountable for this mess it is all his. I don't want him back at either position. I am not sure which of the 2 he is worse at.

    A: Cliff Christl - You must be under the age of 20. In other words, a lifelong Packers fan for 13 years. You were never this despondent watching Lindy Infante's teams or Forrest Gregg's or Bart Starr's or Dan Devine's? This game typified the Packers of the '70s and '80s.
    Q: CajunCheesehead of New Orleans - Cliff, I think you hit it on the head. They don't have the players. That is the GM's fault. We have to address the personel question. What can the Packers do have better players here? Is it time for a new GM or have we just had a string of bad luck? I think we need new folks making personel decisions. It sure ain't easy being cheesy in the big easy.

    A: Cliff Christl - Let's not overlook that they looked liked a poorly prepared, poorly coached team tonight.
    Q: Brian of Kewaskum - Whats prediction on Packers final record?

    A: Cliff Christl - Hey, they might be on pace for a repeat of Scooter McLean's dreadful season.
    Q: Steve Akers of Atlanta - I am a Pack fan living in the ATL where the 4-1 Falcons are doing well. Oh, their D is #1 in the NFL, what is the Packs ??? I don't think its all about players. Atlanta is getting it done with the same bunch of guys. Please don't make excuses, call it like you really see it. What is wrong with the Packers!!!!I'll tell you my opinion -LEADERSHIP, plain and simple. Oh, lack of in the Packers case.

    A: Cliff Christl - As I wrote the week before the opener, Bob Slowik set his standards low when he started Michael Hawthorne in the first game. And the players are performing at that level.
    Q: Rob of Bellingham via Green Bay - Any suggestions on how we, as fans, can influence the removal of Sherman as either the GM or Head Coach?

    A: Cliff Christl - The fans spoke tonight with their boos and their early exit from the stadium. Again, I can't remember the last time Lambeau was so empty at the end of a game. I'm guessing it was sometime in the '70s and '80s.
    Q: Jeff N. of Apex, N.C. - If the Packers finish 3-13 this year, which is very possible, do you think Favre will retire?

    A: Cliff Christl - I have no idea. He might be more inclined to do so. How you'd come up with 3-13? After a game like this that sounds mighty optimistic.
    Q: Biff of Rhinelander - Cliff - For any of my favorite sports teams, I have never let a temporary lack of talent keep me from rooting for them, and it certainly seems like the Packers don't have the bodies (on defense, anyway) to compete this year. But I have no time for teams that are gutless and heartless, and the Packers displayed both of these traits tonight. Is this what Packer fans have to deal with this year, or does this team have the mettle to turn things around?

    A: Cliff Christl - I don't think it was heartless and gutless. It was a shameful performance. I can't remember the last time the Packers played that poorly. It might have been in the second game of the '92 season, a 37-3 loss to Tampa Bay. Does this team have the mettle to turn it around? That's not the pertinent question. Do they have the talent to turn it around? I doubt it. What do you think after tonight?
    Q: KJ of Milwaukee - We need a full time GM. The draft the last two years has been a joke.

    A: Cliff Christl - It sure looked tonight like they need more than that.
    Q: John of Cary, North Carolina - Hey Cliff, hope you are doing okay. I am not... we were having a big Packer tailgate party tonight and it turned into a real downer. Oh well, that is life as they say. Just a quick question if you don't mind. On the Packer Radio Network and ESPN2 they are talking about how this team has quit on Sherman and his staff... do you see this or is it something else? Thanks for the time... have a good evening and an even better rest of the week.

    A: Cliff Christl - Cheers to all. John, we'll start with you. No, I don't think this team has quit on Sherman. If there was anything in tonight's game that was a positive for the Packers, it was that they didn't quit. They simply put on a disgraceful performance.

  2. #2
    Kleinsasser40 is offline Coordinator
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    Packer Post Game Chat Log

    Its good to see that at least some packer fans can admit their team is reaching the rebuilding stage. Pretty funny though that someone wrote in as McKenzie, hahaha.

  3. #3
    hawaiianvike21 is offline Team Alumni
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    Packer Post Game Chat Log

    "Kleinsasser40" wrote:
    Its good to see that at least some packer fans can admit their team is reaching the rebuilding stage. Pretty funny though that someone wrote in as McKenzie, hahaha.
    I laugh it was mckenzie and giving his thoughts about the packers. Maybe its a good thing he left? :roll: :lol:
    Hupo oe ke kau ana i ka waiupa a ma kou pa o & Hupo na Po o waiupa a

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