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  1. #21
    VKG4LFE's Avatar
    VKG4LFE is offline Jersey Retired Tetris Champion, Monkey GO Happy 4 Champion
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    Games over, who cares, bring on da bears!

    I get the most pissed off looks from people with my VKG 4 LFE Wisconsin license plate, and I LOVE IT!!

  2. #22
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    "JWalkRulz84" wrote:
    I believe this is sort of a ridiculous argument. This game was weeks ago...Was it a bad call, in the Vikings opinon yes...Many Packer fans are iffy to point in a certain direction. My main point is that if Ross "clearly" has possession of the ball, why would this have been argued anywhere else. The only place I hear about "the gift" is here. Nothing on ESPN, nothing from the NFL, nothing from anywhere. I dont think this was a clean play but obviously there is something everyone is missing. And if it was obviously a recover by Ross, there would be more coverage about it than just on Viking web sites...Im not saying that I clearly know that Ross didnt recover, but I also cant say I clearly know Steele recovered the ball. This was a play that would have stood regardless of a challenge. We have no idea what the Refs saw in the pile...We have no idea if the Ball squirted out of Ross' hands by the time Steele got there. There are so many questions about this play that go unanswered...There is no way you can without a doubt award this ball to the vikes, but the same goes for the pack. And you cannot re-do the play. This is a dumb argument and the play is over.
    The reason you hear no one else talking about it is that it was 3 weeks ago. At the time it occurred, however, EVERYONE - Broadcastersand everyone else - was talking about it...briefly. Several reasons exist why it didn't become "Hot" news.

    1: Blown calls occur every weekend. This one is only important if you're a Viking or Packer fan. Steelers fans couldn't care less who recovered it...

    2: It was not - unfortunately - a "Reviewable" play under the new Instant-Replay rules, therefore the call was simply blown - not blown and then compounded by review denial. Last year, it would have been...but they changed the rules (Bastards).

    3: With the Medias well known love affair with favre, which headline is more appealing?
    A: "Packers slip past Vikings to lead NFC North and keep play-off hope alive".

    or

    B: "Vikings crush Packers dreams and take control of NFC North. Favre retires in depression."

    Ok, I exaggerated a bit on "B", but you get the idea.

    WHY THIS IS STILL IMPORTANT TO US (or, at least ME).

    1: I AM a Viking fan. While I can accept being beaten (ala New York, Indy, and Philly), I absolutely HATE being beaten by the Officials. Couple this with the debacle in Lambeau 2 years ago, and it becomes even more frustrating. Then toss in Packer fans who refuse to even acknowledge that they did - in fact - slip past us thanks to a blown call.

    2: It wasn't a reviewable play - highlighting again the failure of the instant replay system in place currently to be utilized properly. Any question of Possession should be AUTOMATICALLY reviewed...yet the NFL restricts obviously significant plays from being reviewed for "God only knows" what reason.

    So, again, you won...that is an obvious truth. But to gloat about beating us - especially when the Refs all but handed it to you - is galling in the extreme.

    Plus, this little debate keeps the fires hot for Christmas Eve...when we ruin your Holidays.

    Caine

  3. #23
    JWalkRulz84 is offline Rookie
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    Going in to the 4th quarter, the Pack was up by 14 and they handled the Vikes pretty easily until about 7 or 8 minutes left...Are you telling me that the Refs just decided they wanted the Packers to win that game thus giving every call to them? I mean seriously, come on here...You guys lost to us. What if you guys were down by 24 pts and that same play happened with the same result...Ill bet you wouldnt be complaining about it right now. Just give it up, you guys lost the game and it WASNT because of a questionable call. How about the fact that the Pack had 400 yds of total offense. 200 on the ground and 200 through the air? I dont believe the refs helped that out. I mean, I can admit we were at the advantage of a questionable call, but you also have to admit that for 3 1/2 quarters of that game, you guys were handled by us. The refs didnt win that game, you guys lost that game. And until you admit that, you guys are in for a sorry season.
    [img:ebda3835f6]http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/insider/wallpaper/111504/walk640.jpg[/img:ebda3835f6]

  4. #24
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    rjkvikings is offline Asst. Coach
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    Yeah, the Pack WAS up by 14. Then, we came back to make and evened it up. I'm not saying that the our D played great. I'm saying that they played good at the end to come back, and we had all the momentum right up until they gave you the fumble recovery. I dont' care if you had 600 yards of offense. That doesn't change the fact that it was our ball and we had a lot of momentum to go down and score. Lastly, I really don't think that us admitting anything will change the outcome of the season at all. We are just fans, and no matter how you look at it, we don't change the outcomes of the game (well, i guess you could argue that fans help by creating false starts at home and things like that, but you know what I mean).

  5. #25
    JWalkRulz84 is offline Rookie
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    no, i meant that if you guys are going to make silly excuses for losing every game and blame the refs, you, "the fans" are going to be in for a long season. i mean come on, listen to yourself...its not like the refs had it out for you...yes, you guys evened the score, but you LOST the game. you lost the game fair and square. the packers did not cheat, they didnt pay the officials, and if this was such a big deal, you guys wouldnt be the only one complaining about it...I live up here in minnesota and i havent heard a single viking fan blame the refs for losing that game. they say that we need to stop an explosive offense and make some more stops...you dont blame the refs for losing a game, if that was the case, there wouldnt be any refs with a job...come on and just admit that you lost the game. did you see that monday night game between the pack and rams? there were 2 ridiculous call where st. louis fumbled and mike martz had called a timeout so the rams go to keep possession eventhough the play was snapped before the timeout...or the fake field goal when jeff wilkens fumbled but they ruled his forward progress stopped...if it was a close game, that would have been bullshit, however there would have been other factors to why we lost the game, not just a "blown" call by refs. get over it, you guys lost to the Pack. plain and simple. not the refs, not the nfl, you lost to the PACKERS. so stop complaining and just take it like a good sport.
    [img:ebda3835f6]http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/insider/wallpaper/111504/walk640.jpg[/img:ebda3835f6]

  6. #26
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    rjkvikings is offline Asst. Coach
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    Good points. I wouldn't exaclty say that we lost fair and square and I never said the Packers paid the officials, but it's over. No matter how much we argue about it, it's not going to change a thing so lets just move on to this week where you guys will lose and we will win putting us in 1st place all by ourselves.

    By the way, I know I just said that it's over and we shoudl move on, but one thing about your game last week. The fumble was a questionable call, and I dont' know if the right one was made so I won't pretend I do, but on the time out. He actually did call the time out, but the play should have been stopped earlier.

  7. #27
    Caine's Avatar
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    It still amazes me that you gloss over the "details" in order to prove your "point".

    Yes, you were ahead...then we caught up. While you lead throughout the game, we came back at the end...when it counted.

    So, with the score tied, less than 2 minutes on the clock, and both Offenses rolling, everyone in that stadium knew that whomever had the ball last would win - it really was that simple.

    Out comes the ball. The 17 packer fans I was in the Suite with at Lambeau all got dead silent...shock on all of their faces as they observed Fergy fumble and Minnesota recover. They had been smack talking the first 3 quarters, and had gotten quieter and quieter as their boys got rolled over by the Vikes for the tie.

    Now, it's a fumble and recovery. Half of them are dead silent, the other half is pissed, saying, "here we go again".

    Me? I'm just sitting there intently waiting for the Refs to call it Viking ball. I'm not much for shit talk, and didn't see any reason to gloat...after all, it was a hell of a game to this point.

    Suddenly, the Refs call it Green Bays ball...game over. I know it, the 17 Packer fans know it, the entire stadium knows it. The TV announcers (There are TV's in the Suites - 3 of them) are shocked at the call, the Vikings are shocked, the Viking fans are shocked...

    The Packer fans act like it was theirs all along, and wonder why we are shocked/upset by it. I've covered above why that is.

    So, while you may have been ahead, JWalk, that call, at that time, under those conditions was the game. Just like the blown coin-toss call in that Pittsburg play-off game a few years back. One call at the right time can affect the outcome of the entire game. And, at that point, the call became more important than everything that had occurred in the previous 58 minutes.

    So, while you won, it was due to THAT CALL. Everything you've brought up thus far is simply smoke. The truth is, if you admit that you got a gift, you also have to admit that perhaps you aren't as good - something few Packer fans have the courage to do.

    NOTE: I've already stated that the other 3 losses were cases of us simply being beat, so your allegation about "Silly Excuses" doesn't hold water. I call 'em like I see 'em...even if I don't personally like the result.

    Caine

  8. #28
    JWalkRulz84 is offline Rookie
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    you bring up some very intelligent points and i respect them. however, it was everything in the past 58 minutes that mattered...the entire game matters and every single play is significant in a game. i do not consider this a blown call simply because that call could have gone either way. im sorry, but if it was "clearly" minnesota ball, i believe the refs would have awarded it to minnesota. that play could have taken place at any point of the game and it just so happens it took place in the final 2 minutes. if that was the opening kick off or in the middle of the game, it wouldn't have been such a big deal to you. i dont necessarily believe we received a gift because if the refs would have awarded the vikes the ball, there would be substantial evidence the you guys received the gift. and this doesnt even come close to comparison on the coin toss. a coin toss is strictly black and white. there is no telling what the refs saw in the pile up. we couldnt see and they saw something we didnt. plain and simple. you guys lost the game regardless...there will be no asterics next to the final score of this game...just because a group of disgruntled viking fans feel that they recovered a fumble that the refs obviously believe wasnt recovered by them...doesnt mean the packers received a gift...if this was the case, there would have been an apology by the NFL...i watched NFL Primetime and Sportscenter after the game, they did absolutely no contemplating about the decision of the referees...its solely the fact that viking fans are in denial about losing the game. plain and simple. also, the pittsburgh game wasnt a playoff game...it was a regular season game against the lions. i believe that the Packers are just as good as any team in the NFC and that the Vikings are no better than them.
    [img:ebda3835f6]http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/insider/wallpaper/111504/walk640.jpg[/img:ebda3835f6]

  9. #29
    Caine's Avatar
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    GREEN BAY NEWS FLASH

    Gotta take this one a piece at a time...
    you bring up some very intelligent points and i respect them.
    Thank you.

    however, it was everything in the past 58 minutes that mattered...the entire game matters and every single play is significant in a game. i do not consider this a blown call simply because that call could have gone either way.
    But it didn't. It went to Green Bay in spite of the fact that Ross has possession (As clearly shown on tape). It occurred in the final two minutes with the score TIED. That possession WAS the game.

    im sorry, but if it was "clearly" minnesota ball, i believe the refs would have awarded it to minnesota.
    Well, no, that's why we call it a "Blown Call". Had they gotten it right, it wouldn't be a "blown call" now, would it?

    that play could have taken place at any point of the game and it just so happens it took place in the final 2 minutes. if that was the opening kick off or in the middle of the game, it wouldn't have been such a big deal to you.
    Taking the play out of context to diminish it's significance simply won't work. Totality of the Circumstance applies here. Once you start to "theoretically" alter the circumstances to prove a point, you invalidate the point you're trying to make. As stated above, that possesssion was the game. No hypethetical alteration of the circumstances can alter that fact. While I grant you that had the circumstances altered it wouldn't have been as big a deal, they didn't and it is.

    i dont necessarily believe we received a gift because if the refs would have awarded the vikes the ball, there would be substantial evidence the you guys received the gift.
    And how do you suggest you can argue this point? We have game tape showing possession, you have guess-work, theories, and conjecture. In short, we can PROVE what we're saying, you can't. In any court in the land, that gives us the case.

    and this doesnt even come close to comparison on the coin toss. a coin toss is strictly black and white. there is no telling what the refs saw in the pile up. we couldnt see and they saw something we didnt. plain and simple.
    The "pile Up" - as covered previously - is immaterial. Possession was established and Ross was down = Viking ball. Everything after that - after the ball is "Down by contact" - is irrelevant.

    you guys lost the game regardless...there will be no asterics next to the final score of this game...just because a group of disgruntled viking fans feel that they recovered a fumble that the refs obviously believe wasnt recovered by them...doesnt mean the packers received a gift.
    Yes, we lost. No, we can't alter that. However, when presented with clear cut evidence to the contrary, you still maintain that it wasn't a gift? AMAZING!! Is it really that difficult to admit that you won on a blown call? Doing so won't alter the standings or even decrease our "respect" for you.

    ..if this was the case, there would have been an apology by the NFL...i watched NFL Primetime and Sportscenter after the game, they did absolutely no contemplating about the decision of the referees...its solely the fact that viking fans are in denial about losing the game. plain and simple.
    Not always. The NFL doesn't typically come out and apologize..in fact, the ONLY time I recall them doing so was 2 years ago after they farged up the Packer-Viking game (Fate or coincidence?? You decide).

    also, the pittsburgh game wasnt a playoff game...it was a regular season game against the lions.
    You may be right. All I recall is the toss and hearing the Pittsburg player alter his call prior to the toss while the Ref kept repeating his original call...they got screwed, lost possession, and then lost the game. I think it cost them a play-off berth too, didn't it?

    i believe that the Packers are just as good as any team in the NFC and that the Vikings are no better than them.
    I can think of two teams that would gladly argue that point with you - Philly and Minnesota. We shall see.

    Caine

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