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  1. #41
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    I agree with everything this guy says!

  2. #42
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    "vikinggreg" wrote:
    I'd say top ten but 5 is hard. As for Elway and Favre, SB 32 Elway has a torn bicep tendon, not a pinky or thumb injury or bruised elbow. With his 37 year old football limp help bet the 11.5 favored Favre lead Packers.
    Elway didn't freeze up at 38 and was able to repeat.

    [img width=450 height=326]http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0611/gallery.nfl.10.greatest.moments/images/a10.helicopter.jpg[/img]

    Didn't see Favre do this in the last years of his career to make a drive
    Yeah, but I bet you never saw Elway do this:







    (notice the ref standing right there? There was no flag on this play.)

  3. #43
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    "Jereamiah" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "StillPurple" wrote:
    Hey Shutz, Brad Johnson has a Super Bowl ring, does that make him "great" ? So does Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hofstelter. Would you call them "great" because of that ?

    Remember that game about 5 years ago ? NFC Playoffs, Packers at the Rams. Favre absolutely sank the team by throwing I think 5 interceptions. It was ridiculous. And he has done that more than once (I remember him doing it against us). I think to judge Favre's record, you have to look specifically at what he did or did not do for his team in the playoffs. I don't have the stats, but I just wonder what Favre's overall playoff record is, and how many picks he threw.

    And yes, he often at least appeared more personal-stat-driven than team-driven.

    Yes, the Packers won the Super Bowl, but if you are such a great QB, why not more than just one ? My argument is that they could have had more than that.

    The point is that the great QBs control the game, and that sometimes means sitting on the ball and handing off.

    BTW, I disagree about Eli. Throughout the playoffs, he threw zero INTs, and he had to throw some of those passes in the Show, because the game was so tight. Eli learned to throw shorter, high-percentage passes as the season went on. Eli threw those longer balls in the Super Bowl, but they were more like jump balls, because the Giants had decided that their own WRs were taller than the Pats corners, and so throwing those passes made sense, because the Pats corners were getting "owned" in that game.

    I also think that Favre's lame attempt to get Randy Moss was bad. No sense of team or history, especially after Moss mooned Lambeau. Can you imagine Tom Brady saying something like "We can't win and I will retire if we don't get Javon Walker ?". Or Joe Montana saying "I walk if we don't get Michael Irvin" ? Lame.
    Wow, go ahead and compile how many records Brad Johnson and company had.

    Season
    Team
    Passing
    Rushing
    Fumbles
    G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    2007 Green Bay Packers 16 16 356 535 66.5 4,155 7.8 28 15 15 93 95.7 29 12 0.4 0 9 3
    2006 Green Bay Packers 16 16 343 613 56.0 3,885 6.3 18 18 21 134 72.7 23 29 1.3 1 8 5
    2005 Green Bay Packers 16 16 372 607 61.3 3,881 6.4 20 29 24 170 70.9 18 62 3.4 0 10 7
    2004 Green Bay Packers 16 16 346 540 64.1 4,088 7.6 30 17 12 93 92.4 16 36 2.3 0 4 1
    2003 Green Bay Packers 16 16 308 471 65.4 3,361 7.1 32 21 19 137 90.4 18 15 0.8 0 5 2
    2002 Green Bay Packers 16 16 341 551 61.9 3,658 6.6 27 16 26 188 85.6 25 73 2.9 0 10 4
    2001 Green Bay Packers 16 16 314 510 61.6 3,921 7.7 32 15 22 151 94.1 38 56 1.5 1 16 6
    2000 Green Bay Packers 16 16 338 580 58.3 3,812 6.6 20 16 33 236 78.0 27 108 4.0 0 9 5
    1999 Green Bay Packers 16 16 341 595 57.3 4,091 6.9 22 23 35 223 74.7 28 142 5.1 0 9 4
    1998 Green Bay Packers 16 16 347 551 63.0 4,212 7.6 31 23 38 223 87.8 40 133 3.3 1 8 2
    1997 Green Bay Packers 16 16 304 513 59.3 3,867 7.5 35 16 25 176 92.6 58 187 3.2 1 7 4
    1996 Green Bay Packers 16 16 325 543 59.9 3,899 7.2 39 13 40 241 95.8 49 136 2.8 2 11 4
    1995 Green Bay Packers 16 16 359 570 63.0 4,413 7.7 38 13 33 217 99.5 39 181 4.6 3 8 4
    1994 Green Bay Packers 16 16 363 582 62.4 3,882 6.7 33 14 31 188 90.7 42 202 4.8 2 7 3
    1993 Green Bay Packers 16 16 318 522 60.9 3,303 6.3 19 24 30 199 72.2 58 216 3.7 1 14 6
    1992 Green Bay Packers 15 13 302 471 64.1 3,227 6.9 18 13 34 208 85.3 47 198 4.2 1 12 4
    1991 Atlanta Falcons 2 0 0 4 0.0 0 0.0 0 2 1 11 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    TOTAL 5,377 8,758 61.4 61,655 7.0 442 288 439 2,888 85.7 555 1,786 3.2 13 147 64


    Brad Johnson

    Season
    Team
    Passing
    Rushing
    Fumbles
    G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
    2007 Dallas Cowboys 16 0 7 11 63.6 79 7.2 0 0 1 9 85.0 5 -5 -1.0 0 -- --
    2006 Minnesota Vikings 15 14 270 439 61.5 2,750 6.3 9 15 29 200 72.0 29 82 2.8 1 9 4
    2005 Minnesota Vikings 15 9 184 294 62.6 1,885 6.4 12 4 23 134 88.9 18 53 2.9 0 5 3
    2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 4 65 103 63.1 674 6.5 3 3 8 55 79.5 5 23 4.6 0 2 1
    2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 16 16 354 570 62.1 3,811 6.7 26 21 20 111 81.5 25 33 1.3 0 6 2
    2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 13 13 281 451 62.3 3,049 6.8 22 6 21 121 92.9 13 30 2.3 0 8 2
    2001 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 16 16 340 559 60.8 3,406 6.1 13 11 44 269 77.7 39 120 3.1 3 4 2
    2000 Washington Redskins 12 11 228 365 62.5 2,505 6.9 11 15 20 150 75.7 22 58 2.6 1 5 3
    1999 Washington Redskins 16 16 316 519 60.9 4,005 7.7 24 13 29 177 90.0 26 31 1.2 2 12 6
    1998 Minnesota Vikings 4 2 65 101 64.4 747 7.4 7 5 4 30 89.0 12 15 1.3 0 1 1
    1997 Minnesota Vikings 13 13 275 452 60.8 3,036 6.7 20 12 26 164 84.5 35 139 4.0 0 4 1
    1996 Minnesota Vikings 12 8 195 311 62.7 2,258 7.3 17 10 15 119 89.4 34 90 2.6 1 5 1
    1995 Minnesota Vikings 5 0 25 36 69.4 272 7.6 0 2 2 18 68.3 9 -9 -1.0 0 2 0
    1994 Minnesota Vikings 4 0 22 37 59.5 150 4.1 0 0 1 5 68.5 2 -2 -1.0 0 -- --
    1993 Minnesota Vikings 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    1992 Minnesota Vikings 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 0.0 -- -- -- -- -- --
    TOTAL 2,627 4,248 61.8 28,627 6.7 164 117 243 1,562 83.1 274 658 2.4 8 63 26


    But no you're right comparing a bunch of mediocre QBs to Brett Favre is a great example of why he was such a "terrible" QB.
    Please, I know some of the Vikings fans don't like anybody that isn't currently playing for the Vikings, but it's just said that someone would try to compare Brad Johnson to Brett Favre.

    If Brett Favre didn't play football his way he probably wouldn't have been have the QB he was.
    Kind of like telling Fran Tarkenton, well I think he would have been a good QB if he didn't run so much.


    Was Brett Favre the best to ever play?
    Probably not
    , there's a couple guys I'd put ahead of him.
    Was he one of the top 5 to ever play?
    I would say yes, and to sit around and nit pick at a QB who broke so many records and made so much history is just dumb.
    Take off the Purple tinted wonder land glasses and acknowledge he was a great QB.
    He may have had some faults, but that doesn't mean we should sit around trying to convince people that makes him a bad QB.

    This announcer is still and idiot with nothing more than a grudge or some sort of look at me personality who wanted to tear Favre down to make himself look smart.
    He was not even the best "packer" qb. That title belongs to B.Starr. Championships, qb rating: B.Starr. He deserves props for playing as long as he did, and the records are by-products of his longevity. Everyone is tied up with the records. P.Manning plays that many seasons and will smash the records. Greatest of all time? What a joke. There are several ahead of him Easy. They just all knew when to quit, mostly.
    Like someone else said, Eli, Payton, D.Williams, Elway, B.Jofnson, and Dillhole all have the exact same # of Lombardi trophies. Favre just kept playing. The last decade of his career was mediocre except for last year. Greatest ever? I think Montana and Brady are it. You can't even put Favrays name next to those guys except for his longevity.
    Bart Starr? C'mon now. Sure he had more Titles, but he also had VINCE LOMBARDI! and played in the pre-parity era (which definitely makes Tom Brady all the more impressive). By the way ... Starr's rating is not even close to Favre's ... just Google it. Five points difference.
    I just find it odd that so many people are so quick to discount Favre's greatness. These same people will talk about how great Tarkenton is (which he was). That shows a little bit of bias I think.
    Look ... Montana, Elway, Unitas and even Brady you can make some very legitimate arguments for, but after that it gets tough to keep throwing people ahead of Favre just because you like the Vikes and dislike the Pack.
    Just to point out one more thing ... the last ten season Favre has averaged: 341 Completions, 555 Attempts, 3,906 yards, 26 TDs and 19 INTs, 61.4 Comp % and an 83.96 passer rating. Definitely not what he was in his prime ... but as good as Elway was for almost his entire career (Elway carries a 79.9 career rating).

  4. #44
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    Midgensa, I was not discounting his "greatness" But to call the guy the "best ever" is ridiculous. My point was that his long career produced records, as any career that length is sure to do for Payton or Brady. Those two play even two thirds of what favre did and his records will be smashed. The long career and streak were very impressive and I said he desreved props for that. The super bowl title was also his. Just like Elway, Williams, Dilhole, Johnson Etc.... He just played longer and he should be considered top 5 or even the "best ever?" No way. It's not hard to come up with at least 5 guys who are unquestionably better. Montana, Young, P.Manning, Brady, Unitas, Bradshaw, Aikmen, Thiesman. C'mon The only reason Favre is mentioned with those guys is because of the long career. He was an ironman no doubt. I am not hating on him just cause i like the 'Vikes and he played for the Pack. The Favre love and top 5 greatest ever stuff is just a stretch (imo) I wish the 'Vikes had an outstanding 17 year qb. Pack fans were lucky. He is just not the best ever. no way.
    Tuco the world.....

  5. #45
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    "midgensa" wrote:

    Bart Starr? C'mon now. Sure he had more Titles, but he also had VINCE LOMBARDI! and played in the pre-parity era (which definitely makes Tom Brady all the more impressive). By the way ... Starr's rating is not even close to Favre's ... just Google it. Five points difference.
    I just find it odd that so many people are so quick to discount Favre's greatness. These same people will talk about how great Tarkenton is (which he was). That shows a little bit of bias I think.
    Look ... Montana, Elway, Unitas and even Brady you can make some very legitimate arguments for, but after that it gets tough to keep throwing people ahead of Favre just because you like the Vikes and dislike the Pack.
    The reason for people wanting to discount Favre's 'greatness' - simply that generally people like to make their own decisions as to who and who isn't a great QB. As I recall we didn't have the media constantly singing the praises of the likes of Elway, Unitas etc even when they had their bad days and sucked. However with the 'chosen one' we have, over the years, been fed a constant diet of how great he is, how lucky the league has been to have him and how we fans should go on bended knee whenever we are within sight of the Messiah.
    I'll decide who I consider worthy of the title great.. not some spotty or smarmy media type telling me and I'll do that based on judgement not just because a player may or may not have been a Packer.
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  6. #46
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    Granted Favre was a great QB, but enough already.

    This has gone beyond crotch sniffing & has spilled over to some full fledged crotch licking by some Favre fans finally coming out of the closet to show there man love for the first time.

    :P

    If I didn't know any better, I'd swear this was a fucking Packer board.

    Someone break his stats down to an average per game instead of career totals & then do your comparisons so we can put this thing to rest.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #47
    Nightgaunt is offline Starter
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    "singersp" wrote:
    Granted Favre was a great QB, but enough already.

    This has gone beyond crotch sniffing & has spilled over to some full fledged crotch licking by some Favre fans finally coming out of the closet to show there man love for the first time.

    :P

    If I didn't know any better, I'd swear this was a fricken Packer board.

    Someone brake his stats down to an average per game instead of career totals & then do your comparisons so we can put this thing to rest.
    http://www.nfl.com/players/brettfavre/gamelogs?id=FAV540222

    About good as your gonna get far as individual game stats go, can also go to game splits tab, basically the same thing with more stats.

    I wish he played another year, every time we played the fool we had a chance to win with his play style. Listening to Madden with his finger shoved up Favre's ass all the time made me sick to my stomach among other things. I just hope the media is right this time and he fades away and we never to be seen again like a ghost....

  8. #48
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    So the guy's rant was okay.
    Not bad points.
    But the idea is that 'Favre could have been better.'
    The media and fans have been telling him (and every other quarterback) how he should play forever.
    So what?
    He is who he is, and his career was his career.
    Every player could have done things better at some point.

    It reminds me of one of the few things Brett Favre ever did that I liked (about 289 things including this):

    [youtube=425,350]ZoEGYFzS0jA[/youtube]

    Anyway, in my opinion he was a good QB, but not the best ever.
    Favre had a handful of great years in the mid-to-late 90s, but was too inconsistent later in his career to be considered at the top of the pile.
    I can rationalize him somewhere in the 5-10 range, and I happen to have him at 6 on my list:

    Rank Name Comp. % TDs INTs TD:INT Y/A Rate First Year Last Year
    1 P. Manning 64.2% 306 153 2.00 7.7 94.7 1998 Active
    2 S. Young 64.3% 232 107 2.17 8.0 96.8 1985 1999
    3 J. Montana 63.2% 273 139 1.96 7.5 92.3 1979 1994
    4 T. Brady 63.0% 197 86 2.29 7.2 92.9 2000 Active
    5 D. Marino 59.4% 420 252 1.67 7.3 86.4 1983 1999
    6 B. Favre 61.4% 442 288 1.53 7.0 85.7 1991 2007
    7 O. Graham 55.8% 174 135 1.29 9.0 86.6 1946 1955
    8 S. Jurgensen 57.1% 255 189 1.35 7.6 82.6 1957 1974
    9 L. Dawson 57.1% 239 183 1.31 7.7 82.6 1957 1975
    10 F. Tarkenton 57.0% 342 266 1.29 7.3 80.4 1961 1978

    I'm not trying to make the point that this list is the absolute ranking, but just comparing his stats to the top guys reveals that he's not quite there.
    Also, as you can see by the stats I used, I side with those people that aren't willing to just say he has the most TDs so he's the best.
    He played a long time, so is bound to pile up numbers.
    I like to judge based on efficiency, though consistency isn't a bad thing.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  9. #49
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    "josdin00" wrote:

    Yeah, but I bet you never saw Elway do this:







    (notice the ref standing right there? There was no flag on this play.)
    Thank God there wasn't, 'cause sure as rain it would have somehow gone against the Vikes.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #50
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    Re: ESPN Analyst tears into Favre

    [size=13pt]Mike Vandermause column: Paolantonio levels Favre with absurd criticism [/size]

    Posted March 16, 2008


    By Mike Vandermause
    packersnews.com



    Brett Favre's retirement announcement last week was greeted with tributes, magazine covers, newspaper special sections and every form of adulation imaginable.....

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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