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  1. #101
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    What we're facing here is a two-headed monster.

    Head 1:
    We're unhappy with the current QB situation.
    Head 2:
    We're unhappy with the "PERCEIVED" lack of quality options brought in.

    let's face it, Jackson had a bad year.
    It was a continuation of year 1.
    Can I judge a kid after 1 full season in the NFL?
    Yes I can.
    I don't expect to be 100% accurate, but I can.
    Is it "fair"?
    Probably not, but it isn't fair that people who play a game for a living make millions while I'm soon to be unemployed either....oh well.

    In the end, it isn't Tarvaris that bothers me.
    He MIGHT dvelop into something worth having.
    What bothers me is that we have brought NO ONE in who is worth a fart in a windstorm.
    Bollinger?
    Holcomb?
    O'Sullivan?
    Which one of these guys were we supposed to reasonably believe was going to push Jackson for the job?

    What's worse is that when Jackson went down with injuries, his replacements showed no noticable difference in level of play.
    In essence, we had the same QB...in 3 versions.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.


    At least give us some realistic options.
    The whole "I won't sign a back-up who makes more than our starter" spiel during the Johnson year was a pathetic excuse to keep the QB slot open for Jackson.
    Frankly, no matter who became available, Childress isn't interested.

    And THAT is what galls me.
    Childress hasn't been right nearly enough times yet for me to say, "Hey, I should trust this guy".
    In fact, he hasn't been right much at all.


    Frankly, I don't think he's right on this one either.

    Caine
    I dont think Jackson had a bad year... but i dont think he had a good year.. but for his first full season of starting he did ok... and he showed the potential to be a really great playing in the WCO... but we will get
    another QB in the draft that will take BB spot
    Let's be honest, anything but a good year is a bad year.
    And, truth be told, Tarvaris had a bad year....and not due to creative labeling.

    He was inaccurate as hell until they started making him throw come backs and dump offs.
    He would rattle if he got any pressure, and would panic early thereafter.
    He made bad ball decisions - many times resulting in turnovers.


    You said he "showed the potential to be a really great playing in the WCO"...I disagree.
    Joe Montana was "really great"...Jackson looked more like Trent Dilfer or Joey Harrington.
    So, while I get that as a Viking fan you want to see the best in "OUR" players, I disagree in your assessment of Jackson.

    He had a crap year.

    Is it time to throw in the towel?
    Well, as Singer pointed out, there aren't many viable options out there to replace him with right now.
    Change for the sake of change can sometimes be beneficial, but I'm not a big fan of it (Unless it involves the spontaneous firing of Childress - no offense, Brad, I'm just not a big fan of your brand of football....we tend to call it "losing" football).

    So, we continue with Jackson for one more season...because we have to.
    Childress has painted us into the corner, we have no choice but to wait for it to dry.
    BUT, we should be ACTIVELY seeking another option.
    Either through Free Agency, trade, or the draft.
    By doing so we accomplish 2 things simultaneously:

    1:
    We put Tarvaris on notice that he has to put up...NOW.
    He's had 2 NFL seasons to acclimate and learn.
    The excuses are wearing thin.

    2:
    We put ourselves in a more tenable position in the event Tarvaris DOESN'T develop, AND we place ourselves in a much stronger position in the event that he does.


    Tarvaris COULD come out and blow me away this season.
    He could...and I hope he does.
    Not because I want HIM to succeed, but because I want the Vikings to.
    But if he doesn't come out firing on 5 of 6 cylinders by week 3, expect a storm of criticism.
    Not just from me either, it'll be everywhere.

    Let's face it, we have a pretty heavy schedule again this year.
    Highlights include the Colts, a rematch with the Giants (Seems like we play them every year), and Jacksonville.
    Those are games we need to be winning if we want a Superbowl...and that means we need a QB who can win them.


    As always, I will be hopeful that the Vikes do well.
    But, honestly, I'd feel a lot better if there were more options on the roster than Jackson and a handful of scrubs.

    Caine

  2. #102
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "Caine" wrote:
    What we're facing here is a two-headed monster.

    Head 1:
    We're unhappy with the current QB situation.
    Head 2:
    We're unhappy with the "PERCEIVED" lack of quality options brought in.

    let's face it, Jackson had a bad year.
    It was a continuation of year 1.
    Can I judge a kid after 1 full season in the NFL?
    Yes I can.
    I don't expect to be 100% accurate, but I can.
    Is it "fair"?
    Probably not, but it isn't fair that people who play a game for a living make millions while I'm soon to be unemployed either....oh well.

    In the end, it isn't Tarvaris that bothers me.
    He MIGHT dvelop into something worth having.
    What bothers me is that we have brought NO ONE in who is worth a fart in a windstorm.
    Bollinger?
    Holcomb?
    O'Sullivan?
    Which one of these guys were we supposed to reasonably believe was going to push Jackson for the job?

    What's worse is that when Jackson went down with injuries, his replacements showed no noticable difference in level of play.
    In essence, we had the same QB...in 3 versions.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.


    At least give us some realistic options.
    The whole "I won't sign a back-up who makes more than our starter" spiel during the Johnson year was a pathetic excuse to keep the QB slot open for Jackson.
    Frankly, no matter who became available, Childress isn't interested.

    And THAT is what galls me.
    Childress hasn't been right nearly enough times yet for me to say, "Hey, I should trust this guy".
    In fact, he hasn't been right much at all.


    Frankly, I don't think he's right on this one either.

    Caine
    Some things to ponder/think about in that one.

    Gotta disagree with you on a couple points though.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.
    Who my friend?

    I concede that Garcia would have been a good fit with his style of play and leadership but for some reason he was snatched up by TB pretty damn quick.
    So quick I'm not sure anyother team even had a chance to make an offer.
    Truth be told, I think the news hound gave us an article this year that kindof explained how that all went down.

    Plummer.
    Again, another possible solution, that might come available this year by the way, but again, the TB QB sponge got him and he retired.

    Carr.
    I don't think so.
    Poor release for a QB, holds the ball way to long which doesn't ring true to the need for a quick release kindof guy needed in a WCO.

    Leftwhich.
    I don't think so for the same reason as Carr times 10.
    That guy has the slowest release of anyone.

    Pepp.
    Well, if we paired the playbook down and made it so he only had to read one side of the defense maybe.

    I just don't see any QB that has come open in FA the last 2 years that the Scouts/Front Office and Coaching staff hasn't been right on.
    Everyone of the FA QB's has looked like shit (except Garcia) so why not let the kid get some reps as long as it doesn't mess with his mental outlook?

    And as to the whole "Childress hasn't been right" point, I am sure you know my stance on that.
    I just don't give that cat the credit most do on this site when it comes to who is on the team and who isn't.
    Sure he has a say, but I think Foley (past) and Spielman (present) have more of a say, regardless, it just isn't the Chiller making the decisions on his own as you point out.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...3fid%3d3265706

    If you have ESPN Insider, you can read the whole article.

    NFC: Who's calling the shots?

    Minnesota Vikings

    Owner Zygi Wilf is active in day-to-day operations, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman is probably the one member of this organization who has the most say on personnel decisions. Several people have voices in the Vikings' front office, including head coach Brad Childress, whose power has diminished slightly since his arrival. Director of college scouting Scott Studwell has a lot of say in the draft process. As evidenced by its selection of Adrian Peterson last year, this staff isn't afraid to take the best player on the board regardless of a particular need.
    Anyway, regardless of who is calling the shots with respect to talent and if they've got a few right, I kindof like the last 2 draft classes.
    Seems to me that they are doing a good job getting the right guys.
    Problem is we as fans don't really like the idea of watching that talent get NFL ready on the field instead of taking thier lumps a couple of years on ST's and as backups instead of starting right away.....

    Cook, Griffin, McCauley and yes TJ.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #103
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "Schutz" wrote:
    I wanted a vet.
    Loved the AP pick.
    The guy who I wanted badly, and I mean BADLY, was Jay Cutler.
    But we all know how that turned out for my hopes.
    Only thing you and I consistently agree on.
    ;D

    Quick question though, would you have been patient with Cutler learning under center like TJ currently has and if so why?

    It isn't like his first attempts at being a NFL ready QB were that stellar.
    I do like how he came on last year though.

    I wonder if ole TJ's second year at starting will be any better? (JK
    You know what I think
    ;D)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #104
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    5,139

    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    What we're facing here is a two-headed monster.

    Head 1:
    We're unhappy with the current QB situation.
    Head 2:
    We're unhappy with the "PERCEIVED" lack of quality options brought in.

    let's face it, Jackson had a bad year.
    It was a continuation of year 1.
    Can I judge a kid after 1 full season in the NFL?
    Yes I can.
    I don't expect to be 100% accurate, but I can.
    Is it "fair"?
    Probably not, but it isn't fair that people who play a game for a living make millions while I'm soon to be unemployed either....oh well.

    In the end, it isn't Tarvaris that bothers me.
    He MIGHT dvelop into something worth having.
    What bothers me is that we have brought NO ONE in who is worth a fart in a windstorm.
    Bollinger?
    Holcomb?
    O'Sullivan?
    Which one of these guys were we supposed to reasonably believe was going to push Jackson for the job?

    What's worse is that when Jackson went down with injuries, his replacements showed no noticable difference in level of play.
    In essence, we had the same QB...in 3 versions.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.


    At least give us some realistic options.
    The whole "I won't sign a back-up who makes more than our starter" spiel during the Johnson year was a pathetic excuse to keep the QB slot open for Jackson.
    Frankly, no matter who became available, Childress isn't interested.

    And THAT is what galls me.
    Childress hasn't been right nearly enough times yet for me to say, "Hey, I should trust this guy".
    In fact, he hasn't been right much at all.


    Frankly, I don't think he's right on this one either.

    Caine
    Some things to ponder/think about in that one.

    Gotta disagree with you on a couple points though.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.
    Who my friend?

    I concede that Garcia would have been a good fit with his style of play and leadership but for some reason he was snatched up by TB pretty gol 'darnit quick.
    So quick I'm not sure anyother team even had a chance to make an offer.
    Truth be told, I think the news hound gave us an article this year that kindof explained how that all went down.

    Plummer.
    Again, another possible solution, that might come available this year by the way, but again, the TB QB sponge got him and he retired.

    Carr.
    I don't think so.
    Poor release for a QB, holds the ball way to long which doesn't ring true to the need for a quick release kindof guy needed in a WCO.

    Leftwhich.
    I don't think so for the same reason as Carr times 10.
    That guy has the slowest release of anyone.

    Pepp.
    Well, if we paired the playbook down and made it so he only had to read one side of the defense maybe.

    I just don't see any QB that has come open in FA the last 2 years that the Scouts/Front Office and Coaching staff hasn't been right on.
    Everyone of the FA QB's has looked like pooh (except Garcia) so why not let the kid get some reps as long as it doesn't mess with his mental outlook?

    And as to the whole "Childress hasn't been right" point, I am sure you know my stance on that.
    I just don't give that cat the credit most do on this site when it comes to who is on the team and who isn't.
    Sure he has a say, but I think Foley (past) and Spielman (present) have more of a say, regardless, it just isn't the Chiller making the decisions on his own as you point out.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...3fid%3d3265706

    If you have ESPN Insider, you can read the whole article.

    NFC: Who's calling the shots?

    Minnesota Vikings

    Owner Zygi Wilf is active in day-to-day operations, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman is probably the one member of this organization who has the most say on personnel decisions. Several people have voices in the Vikings' front office, including head coach Brad Childress, whose power has diminished slightly since his arrival. Director of college scouting Scott Studwell has a lot of say in the draft process. As evidenced by its selection of Adrian Peterson last year, this staff isn't afraid to take the best player on the board regardless of a particular need.
    Anyway, regardless of who is calling the shots with respect to talent and if they've got a few right, I kindof like the last 2 draft classes.
    Seems to me that they are doing a good job getting the right guys.
    Problem is we as fans don't really like the idea of watching that talent get NFL ready on the field instead of taking thier lumps a couple of years on ST's and as backups instead of starting right away.....

    Cook, Griffin, McCauley and yes TJ.
    2006 QB FA's

    Anthony Wright
    Charlie Batch
    Chris Simms

    Chris Weinke
    Craig Nall
    Damon Huard
    Dave Ragone

    Doug Flutie
    Drew Brees

    Jamie Martin
    Jeff Blake

    Jeff Garcia
    Jesse Palmer
    Jon Kitna
    Josh McCown

    Ken Dorsey

    Kliff Kingsbury
    Kurt Warner

    Sage Rosenfels

    Seneca Wallace

    Shane Matthews
    Shaun Hill

    Tim Hasselbeck
    Todd Collins
    Ty Detmer

    Vinny Testaverde

    2007 QB FA's

    Collins, Kerry
    Garcia, Jeff

    Gray, Quinn

    Huard, Damon
    Johnson, Doug
    Lemon, Cleo

    Navarre, John
    Rattay, Tim

    Schaub, Matt

    Simms, Chris

    Sorgi, Jim

    Tuiasosopo, Marques

    Wright, Anthony

    2008 QB FA's

    Anderson, Derek

    Brunell, Mark

    Collins, Todd

    Culpepper, Daunte

    Dorsey, Ken
    Fitzpatrick, Ryan
    Gray, Quinn
    Grossman, Rex

    Henson, Drew
    Hill, Shaun
    Lemon, Cleo
    Lorenzen, Jared

    Martin, Jamie

    McCown, Josh
    Ochs, Craig

    Orlovsky, Dan

    O'Sullivan, J.T.
    Redman, Chris
    Rivers, Philip
    St. Pierre, Brian

    Tuiasosopo, Marques
    Wallace, Seneca


    Those are the lists of every FA QB in the past 3 seasons.
    There are some very good names on those lists.
    The kick in the pants is that every time I see a not-so-good name I think, "Would he have been worse than Jackson?"...and I usually come back with, "No, probably not".

    The question is, "Would they have been better"?

    Of course, we'll never know.
    David Carr has a canon for an arm, and has proven he can take a hit (actually, it's hundreds of hits...).
    Would he have been worse than Jackson?
    I doubt it.


    Byron Leftwich was the starter in Jacksonville, but it wasn't so much about HIM as it was the running game and the Defense (sound familiar?).
    They FINALLY got fed up with waiting for him to improve (and stay healthy)....again, sound familiar?

    But what about some of these other guys?
    Are you saying that Jackson is head and shoulders above them?
    That the front office (Whomever is calling the shots) is so sold on Jackson - despite everything WE have seen - that no one on those lists was of interest?
    If so, I question the ability of the people who are making decisions to actually make those decisions.


    Keep in mind, I'm not looking for our QG saviour on those lists - I don't think he's there.
    All I'm saying is that I don't think Jackson is either.
    I think we need to keep looking.
    And if the Vikings aren't willing to bring in some better quality QB's to at least push Jackson, we're not going to get where we need to be.

    Caine

  5. #105
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "Caine" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Caine" wrote:
    What we're facing here is a two-headed monster.

    Head 1:
    We're unhappy with the current QB situation.
    Head 2:
    We're unhappy with the "PERCEIVED" lack of quality options brought in.

    let's face it, Jackson had a bad year.
    It was a continuation of year 1.
    Can I judge a kid after 1 full season in the NFL?
    Yes I can.
    I don't expect to be 100% accurate, but I can.
    Is it "fair"?
    Probably not, but it isn't fair that people who play a game for a living make millions while I'm soon to be unemployed either....oh well.

    In the end, it isn't Tarvaris that bothers me.
    He MIGHT dvelop into something worth having.
    What bothers me is that we have brought NO ONE in who is worth a fart in a windstorm.
    Bollinger?
    Holcomb?
    O'Sullivan?
    Which one of these guys were we supposed to reasonably believe was going to push Jackson for the job?

    What's worse is that when Jackson went down with injuries, his replacements showed no noticable difference in level of play.
    In essence, we had the same QB...in 3 versions.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.


    At least give us some realistic options.
    The whole "I won't sign a back-up who makes more than our starter" spiel during the Johnson year was a pathetic excuse to keep the QB slot open for Jackson.
    Frankly, no matter who became available, Childress isn't interested.

    And THAT is what galls me.
    Childress hasn't been right nearly enough times yet for me to say, "Hey, I should trust this guy".
    In fact, he hasn't been right much at all.


    Frankly, I don't think he's right on this one either.

    Caine
    Some things to ponder/think about in that one.

    Gotta disagree with you on a couple points though.

    There have been options float past us over the past 3 seasons.
    Guys have been available, and we haven't looked.
    Why?
    Because Childress is banking the franchise on Jackson.
    Sorry, I don't share his optimism.
    Who my friend?

    I concede that Garcia would have been a good fit with his style of play and leadership but for some reason he was snatched up by TB pretty gol 'darnit quick.
    So quick I'm not sure anyother team even had a chance to make an offer.
    Truth be told, I think the news hound gave us an article this year that kindof explained how that all went down.

    Plummer.
    Again, another possible solution, that might come available this year by the way, but again, the TB QB sponge got him and he retired.

    Carr.
    I don't think so.
    Poor release for a QB, holds the ball way to long which doesn't ring true to the need for a quick release kindof guy needed in a WCO.

    Leftwhich.
    I don't think so for the same reason as Carr times 10.
    That guy has the slowest release of anyone.

    Pepp.
    Well, if we paired the playbook down and made it so he only had to read one side of the defense maybe.

    I just don't see any QB that has come open in FA the last 2 years that the Scouts/Front Office and Coaching staff hasn't been right on.
    Everyone of the FA QB's has looked like pooh (except Garcia) so why not let the kid get some reps as long as it doesn't mess with his mental outlook?

    And as to the whole "Childress hasn't been right" point, I am sure you know my stance on that.
    I just don't give that cat the credit most do on this site when it comes to who is on the team and who isn't.
    Sure he has a say, but I think Foley (past) and Spielman (present) have more of a say, regardless, it just isn't the Chiller making the decisions on his own as you point out.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insid...3fid%3d3265706

    If you have ESPN Insider, you can read the whole article.

    NFC: Who's calling the shots?

    Minnesota Vikings

    Owner Zygi Wilf is active in day-to-day operations, but vice president of player personnel Rick Spielman is probably the one member of this organization who has the most say on personnel decisions. Several people have voices in the Vikings' front office, including head coach Brad Childress, whose power has diminished slightly since his arrival. Director of college scouting Scott Studwell has a lot of say in the draft process. As evidenced by its selection of Adrian Peterson last year, this staff isn't afraid to take the best player on the board regardless of a particular need.
    Anyway, regardless of who is calling the shots with respect to talent and if they've got a few right, I kindof like the last 2 draft classes.
    Seems to me that they are doing a good job getting the right guys.
    Problem is we as fans don't really like the idea of watching that talent get NFL ready on the field instead of taking thier lumps a couple of years on ST's and as backups instead of starting right away.....

    Cook, Griffin, McCauley and yes TJ.
    2006 QB FA's

    Anthony Wright
    Charlie Batch
    Chris Simms

    Chris Weinke
    Craig Nall
    Damon Huard
    Dave Ragone

    Doug Flutie
    Drew Brees

    Jamie Martin
    Jeff Blake

    Jeff Garcia
    Jesse Palmer
    Jon Kitna
    Josh McCown

    Ken Dorsey

    Kliff Kingsbury
    Kurt Warner

    Sage Rosenfels

    Seneca Wallace

    Shane Matthews
    Shaun Hill

    Tim Hasselbeck
    Todd Collins
    Ty Detmer

    Vinny Testaverde

    2007 QB FA's

    Collins, Kerry
    Garcia, Jeff

    Gray, Quinn

    Huard, Damon
    Johnson, Doug
    Lemon, Cleo

    Navarre, John
    Rattay, Tim

    Schaub, Matt

    Simms, Chris

    Sorgi, Jim

    Tuiasosopo, Marques

    Wright, Anthony

    2008 QB FA's

    Anderson, Derek

    Brunell, Mark

    Collins, Todd

    Culpepper, Daunte

    Dorsey, Ken
    Fitzpatrick, Ryan
    Gray, Quinn
    Grossman, Rex

    Henson, Drew
    Hill, Shaun
    Lemon, Cleo
    Lorenzen, Jared

    Martin, Jamie

    McCown, Josh
    Ochs, Craig

    Orlovsky, Dan

    O'Sullivan, J.T.
    Redman, Chris
    Rivers, Philip
    St. Pierre, Brian

    Tuiasosopo, Marques
    Wallace, Seneca


    Those are the lists of every FA QB in the past 3 seasons.
    There are some very good names on those lists.
    The kick in the pants is that every time I see a not-so-good name I think, "Would he have been worse than Jackson?"...and I usually come back with, "No, probably not".

    The question is, "Would they have been better"?

    Of course, we'll never know.
    David Carr has a canon for an arm, and has proven he can take a hit (actually, it's hundreds of hits...).
    Would he have been worse than Jackson?
    I doubt it.


    Byron Leftwich was the starter in Jacksonville, but it wasn't so much about HIM as it was the running game and the Defense (sound familiar?).
    They FINALLY got fed up with waiting for him to improve (and stay healthy)....again, sound familiar?

    But what about some of these other guys?
    Are you saying that Jackson is head and shoulders above them?
    That the front office (Whomever is calling the shots) is so sold on Jackson - despite everything WE have seen - that no one on those lists was of interest?
    If so, I question the ability of the people who are making decisions to actually make those decisions.


    Keep in mind, I'm not looking for our QG saviour on those lists - I don't think he's there.
    All I'm saying is that I don't think Jackson is either.
    I think we need to keep looking.
    And if the Vikings aren't willing to bring in some better quality QB's to at least push Jackson, we're not going to get where we need to be.

    Caine
    As always a great post.
    I do love how you make an argument.

    Way to lay them out for us/me.
    It even drives the point home even more about how lackluster the QB situation is in the NFL.

    I would have taken Brees (not sure about the whole timing thing with Pepp), would have loved to see what Sorgi would have done (he signed with his team) and truth be told would have given up picks for DA but the rest I am not so sure of (except the ones I've already mentioned).

    I tend to agree with you on how they've handled the QB selection process since the Wilf Ownership bought the team. Lots of blame to spread around I guess.

    Why did Pepp cop an attitude?
    Why didn't they sign BJ to a extension?
    Why didn't they trade up for Cutler?
    Why didn't they take Clemens ahead of the Jets (unless they didn't have a clue the Jets were interested)?

    My cut is we will see a higher pick invested on a QB this year and (unlike how they handled Thygpen last year) which will forced them to keep him on the roster instead of trying to sneak him onto the practice squad. Maybe that guy will be the longterm solution or which we have all been looking for.

    Truth be told, I still think TJ will be a good (not great) starter in this league and the guy we draft this year will/could also push him for the starters job in a couple of years when his contract is due.

    Again, excellent post.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #106
    Mr-holland's Avatar
    Mr-holland is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    About Carr:

    He does have a canon of an arm, and he could've done better in Houston if their line was better but he isn't healthy.
    What did he had in Carolina, a concussion? Panthers thought they had a good player who could step up if something happened, but eventually i think Testaverde had more playing time than Carr.

    I'm not sure he fits the system either, in our situation we don't throw it deep very often. we did it in NY and in Denver but still those kind of plays you'd see maybe twice a couple of games. Don't know the signing of Carr woulda helped
    Rosie O'Donnell is a dude!

  7. #107
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    [quote author=Garland Greene link=topic=43345.msg744458#msg744458 date=1206128462]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=43345.msg744112#msg744112 date=1206099129]
    [quote author=singersp link=topic=43345.msg744106#msg744106 date=1206097738]
    [quote author=Garland Greene link=topic=43345.msg744076#msg744076 date=1206076192]
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/16882111.html

    Towards the end of the Boulware article.


    Meanwhile, free agent quarterback Gus Frerotte completed a visit without signing a contract.

    Thank God! Lets hope it is the end of that.
    Are you saying you like Bollinger better than Frerotte? You call T-Jack T-Joke also. What is your answer to the QB & backup QB positions on the Vikings?
    Haven't you paid attention my news finding friend?
    There are about 5 posters on here who only beeeyyyyatch about TJ but never seem to answer your question when you ask them what could/should've the staff done over the last 3 years other than say they would have went after Garcia.

    Not sure if I lump GG in with that crowd though.

    ;D
    In compirson to Bollinger, don't know if I would say BB is better but Ferote is not an upgrade. If we are going to get a back-up what is wrong with someone that would actually push TJack to be better? IS Ferotte that? No is Bollinger that No.
    Why bring someone in that could also not be a long term solution if needed? I guess I ma confused as to why so many people are willing to settle for mediocre at the QB position for so many years. Honestly how many Qb's have we gone through over the last 5-6 seasons and we still are no better off now then we were then.
    We should be sick of the whole"He's going to get better, just give him time" Fine then give him the tools, and the people behind him to get better. There is no reason that thsi team should not be in the playoffs, and a mediocre QB play TJack or otherwise has more than alot to do with it.

    To answer Marr's Question. As far as Garcia goes, well we missed that boat, but the same could be said for alot of other players at alot of other positions. But there must be something if we are looking to trade a 3rd round pick for a QB. and looking at picks that could be 1st or second round picks for us. They are not looking at making the move or investment to have a player sit on a bench for the next 6 years behind TJack.
    I think you are missing the point GG.
    I don't think anyone is happy about the QB situation over the last 2 years.
    Not sure where you are getting 5-6.
    Everyone was happy with Pep until he sucked it up in 2005.
    But back to the point.
    The fact is there is no one out there right now that will take TJs starting position.
    Therefore no one is saying not to go after a young QB that can push TJ.
    But you have to realize there needs to be veteran leadership as well.
    If you are asking me if Frerotte is an upgrade over Bollinger.
    I would say yes.
    He can come off the bench and do a good job.
    No one is too sure about BB doing the same.
    We also know GF can provide guidance with the earphones as well for TJ.
    Pep did pretty darn good with GF holding the clipboard.
    When he left is when Pep started struggling.
    It makes a big difference who is on the sidelines.
    Over the last 2 years how many QB's have we had start a game?

    Johnson
    Jackson
    Bollinger
    Holcomb

    Ok that is 4 so I was off by one I guess i was including Culpepper but we still don't have a solid starting QB. So you mean to tell me that thsi has had no influence on us being able to make the playoffs?
    [/quote]

    LOL! The only reason Bollinger & Holcomb saw playing time is because of T-Jack's injury.

    Johnson started 2 years ago while T-Jack was learning the system, Now it's T-Jack's turn.

    I got to laugh when people demand a rookie QB to come out & set the NFL on fire in his first year. Fact is, most don't.

    If the NFL was to use your philosophy & cut every starting QB who didn't have a terrific 1st year, the record books would be virtually empty.

    Again, who is it you feel we should bring in here to start that is available?

    Be careful with your answer though, because I'm expecting him to have better first year starting QB stats in the NFL than T-Jack did.

    I don't want to see no college names & I don't want to see any Brady Quinn types (hasn't thrown ball 1 in the pros, much less start).

    I'm expecting to hear crickets.
    [/quote]

    Ok, so by your theory since you are bringing great QBs with bad seasons into the equation will T-Jack have a 90+ QB rating this year like guys such as Lord Favre, and Peyton Manning.
    Or how about even the 82 of Derek Anderson, how about Stave Mcnair's 90, and my point goes on and non.
    All those great QBs with supposed "bad" first years passed for 2500-3000+ yards in their first season in most cases, and had flashes of greatness.

    T-Jack might surprise the crap out of me and do well this season, but he's shown flashes of mediocre with a side of decent in his first 16 games and 2 years.
    So now that T-Jack is coming up on year three, is it ok if he stinks next year, he is just a young guy who's going to be one of the greats(or else people just like to bring up names like Montana when they talk about development even if they say they aren't comparing).


    You think T-Jack is our QB, I haven't since the day we wasted a second round pick on him, I just don't think he has the ability to be a great QB.


    You like to laugh at people apparently, good for you.
    I laugh at people who blindly think T-Jack is some sort of answer and don't think we should bring in someone else to compete.

    As for someone who could play better than T-Jack?
    Brooks Bolllinger, Gus Ferotte, Cleo Lemon, maybe Brad "QB Coach" Childress.
    [/quote]

    First of all, I was loling at GG statement about the starting QB's. Bollinger & Holcomb weren't brought in here as starters, they were brought in as backups. The only reason they both saw time is because of injuries to T-Jack or the QB who started the game.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying T-Jack will have a great year but I definitely want to see a lot of improvement. How are we going to know what kind of year he would have if you want to eject him after 1 season of play? I'm not saying he is or isn't the answer, but we'll have a hard time ever finding a rookie who can be if the knee jerk reaction is to toss him aside after his first year if he doesn't light up the league.

    Jackson threw for 1911 yards last year in your 2000-3000+ yards comparison, but he did that in just 12 games. If you project the 1911 into a full 16 game season it comes out to 2548, which falls into your range. And that was accomplished without the aid of a standout receiver/go to guy.
    Jackson should at least be given another year to find out what he's made of with a more solid receiving corp than last year, rather than simply toss him aside.

    Could Frerotte come in here & win the starting QB spot over T-Jack? Maybe, maybe not, but how will we know if we don't bring him? That's what this thread is about & I'm all for it. We already know Bollinger can't.
    I'm also not opposed to bring Rosenfels in here to give him that opportunity as well, but as it stands, the Vikings are not interested in giving up the asking price.

    Outside of those, I don't see anyone else out there good enough of it. I fully expect the Vikings to pick up another QB though, most likely somewhere in the draft.

    Just out of curiosity, which QB did you think the Vikings should have signed in the 2nd round or do you feel we should have passed on AD & taking a QB in the first such as Quinn?
    [/quote]

    Not to mention the amount of dropped passes that would have easily put him over the 2000 mark.
    Not to mention the fact that the right side of theline took a while to work well together.
    Not to mention that McKinnie has trouble blocking against quick footed RDEs.
    I don't want to give the impression I think TJ was perfect or great becasue he definately had his share of mistakes too.

    We all can sit here and say TJ sucks or whatever we want to about the guy.
    As I mentioned before, I was ready to nix him after the Dallas game.
    I do believe if we had a QB that was able to hit the WR consistently the Vikings record would have been much better.
    Same can be said if the WRs caught passes they were supposed to catch.

    Right now, GF is as good of a QB as anyone out there and can help a guy like TJ progress.
    That being said I wouldn't mind drafting a young prospect that will push for the job in a year or two.
    The FO did try that last year with Thigpen however they made the wrong move IMO when they brought in KH and put Thigpen on the practice squad.
    Of course I am being the Monday morning QB when I say that.
    But I do think losing Thigpen was bigger than we thought becasue now we are forced to draft another young guy and hope the same thing doesn't happen.

  8. #108
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "ejmat" wrote:
    Not to mention the amount of dropped passes that would have easily put him over the 2000 mark.
    Not to mention the fact that the right side of theline took a while to work well together.
    Not to mention that McKinnie has trouble blocking against quick footed RDEs.
    I don't want to give the impression I think TJ was perfect or great becasue he definately had his share of mistakes too.

    We all can sit here and say TJ sucks or whatever we want to about the guy.
    As I mentioned before, I was ready to nix him after the Dallas game.
    I do believe if we had a QB that was able to hit the WR consistently the Vikings record would have been much better.
    Same can be said if the WRs caught passes they were supposed to catch.

    Right now, GF is as good of a QB as anyone out there and can help a guy like TJ progress.
    That being said I wouldn't mind drafting a young prospect that will push for the job in a year or two.
    The FO did try that last year with Thigpen however they made the wrong move IMO when they brought in KH and put Thigpen on the practice squad.
    Of course I am being the Monday morning QB when I say that.
    But I do think losing Thigpen was bigger than we thought becasue now we are forced to draft another young guy and hope the same thing doesn't happen.
    Excellent post my friend.


    I always forget to mention the dropped passes and the time (sometimes lack of) the OL gave last year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #109
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    Not to mention the amount of dropped passes that would have easily put him over the 2000 mark.
    Not to mention the fact that the right side of theline took a while to work well together.
    Not to mention that McKinnie has trouble blocking against quick footed RDEs.
    I don't want to give the impression I think TJ was perfect or great becasue he definately had his share of mistakes too.

    We all can sit here and say TJ sucks or whatever we want to about the guy.
    As I mentioned before, I was ready to nix him after the Dallas game.
    I do believe if we had a QB that was able to hit the WR consistently the Vikings record would have been much better.
    Same can be said if the WRs caught passes they were supposed to catch.

    Right now, GF is as good of a QB as anyone out there and can help a guy like TJ progress.
    That being said I wouldn't mind drafting a young prospect that will push for the job in a year or two.
    The FO did try that last year with Thigpen however they made the wrong move IMO when they brought in KH and put Thigpen on the practice squad.
    Of course I am being the Monday morning QB when I say that.
    But I do think losing Thigpen was bigger than we thought becasue now we are forced to draft another young guy and hope the same thing doesn't happen.
    Excellent post my friend.


    I always forget to mention the dropped passes and the time (sometimes lack of) the OL gave last year.
    Yeah Marrdro get your head out of your ass will ya?
    Just kidding my friend.
    Hope all is well with you.
    Sorry I haven't been around much.
    My job has been keeping me extremely busy lately.

  10. #110
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: WTF...Frerotte???

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    Not to mention the amount of dropped passes that would have easily put him over the 2000 mark.
    Not to mention the fact that the right side of theline took a while to work well together.
    Not to mention that McKinnie has trouble blocking against quick footed RDEs.
    I don't want to give the impression I think TJ was perfect or great becasue he definately had his share of mistakes too.

    We all can sit here and say TJ sucks or whatever we want to about the guy.
    As I mentioned before, I was ready to nix him after the Dallas game.
    I do believe if we had a QB that was able to hit the WR consistently the Vikings record would have been much better.
    Same can be said if the WRs caught passes they were supposed to catch.

    Right now, GF is as good of a QB as anyone out there and can help a guy like TJ progress.
    That being said I wouldn't mind drafting a young prospect that will push for the job in a year or two.
    The FO did try that last year with Thigpen however they made the wrong move IMO when they brought in KH and put Thigpen on the practice squad.
    Of course I am being the Monday morning QB when I say that.
    But I do think losing Thigpen was bigger than we thought becasue now we are forced to draft another young guy and hope the same thing doesn't happen.
    Excellent post my friend.


    I always forget to mention the dropped passes and the time (sometimes lack of) the OL gave last year.
    Yeah Marrdro get your head out of your jiggly butt will ya?
    Just kidding my friend.
    Hope all is well with you.
    Sorry I haven't been around much.
    My job has been keeping me extremely busy lately.
    I know, I can be a yutz sometimes can't I.
    ;D

    No worries my friend.
    Some of us have been fighting the good fight until you can/could get back and help.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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