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  1. #101
    12purplepride28's Avatar
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gregair13 wrote:
    I should actually read the rest of this thread to see what the heck you all are trying to say, but here is my opinion in very few words:

    If Favre stays, he is our starter. If he does not come back, trade whatever the eagles want for McNabb. He would be a great qb with the offensive players that we have. Good running game, a few deep threats, a good TE across the middle. He would have tons of options and with our average Oline, he could use his legs and scramble to get away from the great pass rushers in our division.
    Mostly, I'm just trying to spin my good friend Caine up a bit. He doesn't have many buttons to push, but when I get a chance I like to push one once in awhile.

    In the end, I think he will forgive me this one little bit of fun.

    As to my real opinion....

    I would love to see them give up atleast the 30th this year for Dnabb, Shitcan Sage and resign TJ to the going market price. That would give us the following at QB this year:

    Starter: Noodle
    Backup: Dnabb
    Third String: TJ

    I would also like them to invest a late round pick on one of 3 cats if they are there......

    a. Skelton. Big arm. Accurate. Still Raw. Needs to improve footwork.
    b. Robinson. Same as Skelton but as big of an arm. Probably a bit more polished in reading defenses. Not a scrambler, but moves in the pocket well.
    c. Hiller. Same as Robinson, but seems to struggle with accuracey on his out patterns.

    Problem with skelton is that you would probably have to carry him on your 53 man roster but that wouldn't be a bad thing if the staff thought he could excel enough to be the backup to Dnabb in 2011. If that were the case, I would envision a lineup like

    Starter: Noodle (Makes me sick to type that by the way)
    Backup: Dnabb
    Third: Skelton

    Pickup Hiller or someone like him (UDFA) and put him on the PS for a year or two.

    Again, no CAP means Bryzcheapski could get everyone under contract this year. Of course he would have to make sure that it all comes under this year, just in case the CAP comes back. Don't want to restructure anything in 2011.

    Long story short, I can't believe anyone would be to upset if Dnabb came in as a backup for one year behind the Noodle. If they are upset with that plan, they are crazier than I am for wanting the Noodle gone. :P
    I wouldn't be upset if McNabb would come in to back up Favre. The problem is I think it is unrealistic. I don't think the Vikings would trade for him if Favre would to come back. I also don't believe McNabb would want to come as the backup. Great scenario but I don't think it's happening.

    As much as I like Favre I think it would be a better deal to trade for McNabb at this point. It gives the Vikings enough time to groom a young prospect other than what we have now.
    I'm not so sure it is that unrealistic considering the environment we are in right now with respect to no CAP.

    I just keep harkening back to what Zygi, Ricky Boy and the Chiller have all said.....

    They are not gonna let the Noodle drive thier decisions. To me, the assumption is that if they can get Dnabb they go get him regardless of what the Noodle decides.

    If he is there, good on them. Best one/two QB situation in the league, which would only last a (UNCAPPED) year by the way.

    The Iggles let the cat out of the bag which cause Dnabb to followup with his comments about not signing a long term contract with anyone, so that kindof took some of thier bargaining power away which could, in the end, wind up making him available to us for say a 62nd or possibly lower if no other suitors come around that would be willing to give up a top pick for a QB for one year.
    I don't think it's even about the cap. I don't see McNabb agreeing to coming here as a backup when he can go almost any other place as a starter. Like I stated. Great scenario but I'm not sure how realistic it would actually be.
    Well if we traded for Mcnabb would he have a choice in the matter? He is forced to play back up to Favre and next year we sign him to a contract with starter money and hes guaranteed the starting position. Or am I missing something. People are acting like Mcnabb would have a choice of coming here after he was traded. Does he?
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  2. #102
    12purplepride28's Avatar
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    ejmat wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    No, I would NOT.

    First, Favre is still the better QB. He's also, despite the age, more durable.

    Second, the FIX for our QB predicament is NOT to go out and acquire cast off QB's, it is to find one with some life left in him that can actually play. Neither of the guys behind Favre fit that description, and adding McNabb to the roster won't help it either.

    McNabb doesn't put us in any better position than Favre does in the long term.

    Caine

    I have to ask. What is long term in the NFL? Sorry but I can't agree with that. I understand the love for Favre. I'm in the same boat. However, we all know what Favre brings to the table. One more year at most. McNabb gives us another 3-4, or more to develop a new QB. McNabb may not be as good as Favre but he has taken his team to 5 NFCCGs mostly with no real weapons. He still has more left in the tank as we as Viking fans find out year after year. We have never beaten him.

    I am in the category of wanting Favre back. However, after thinking about this McNabb would put us in a better long term situation than Favre would. We are not going to fix that position over night and McNabb could give the confort of a few years to develop someone.
    3-4 years? McNabb is a 2 year guy max. If he sticks around longer, we're going to be in a sore spot. His skills are declining, he's constantly gettting hurt, I just don't think he'll last 4 years, which is why i'm slightly wary about getting him. He'll be a good patch, but thats it. We're going to have a young QB starting in two years unless we go get yet another vet.
    I happen to think he has another 3-4 good years left. In what way have his skills decline? I think he still does pretty well. Better than a lot of other starters in the league.

    It's true he is getting older. Many people said Favre skills declined too. Well he proved them all wrong. McNabb has been a good QB in this league for 11 years. In fact Peyton Manning is older than McNabb. So to think McNabb could past another 3-4 years is not that far fetched.
    True, but Manning hasn't had consistent injury problems
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  3. #103
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    12purplepride28 wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gregair13 wrote:
    I should actually read the rest of this thread to see what the heck you all are trying to say, but here is my opinion in very few words:

    If Favre stays, he is our starter. If he does not come back, trade whatever the eagles want for McNabb. He would be a great qb with the offensive players that we have. Good running game, a few deep threats, a good TE across the middle. He would have tons of options and with our average Oline, he could use his legs and scramble to get away from the great pass rushers in our division.
    Mostly, I'm just trying to spin my good friend Caine up a bit. He doesn't have many buttons to push, but when I get a chance I like to push one once in awhile.

    In the end, I think he will forgive me this one little bit of fun.

    As to my real opinion....

    I would love to see them give up atleast the 30th this year for Dnabb, Shitcan Sage and resign TJ to the going market price. That would give us the following at QB this year:

    Starter: Noodle
    Backup: Dnabb
    Third String: TJ

    I would also like them to invest a late round pick on one of 3 cats if they are there......

    a. Skelton. Big arm. Accurate. Still Raw. Needs to improve footwork.
    b. Robinson. Same as Skelton but as big of an arm. Probably a bit more polished in reading defenses. Not a scrambler, but moves in the pocket well.
    c. Hiller. Same as Robinson, but seems to struggle with accuracey on his out patterns.

    Problem with skelton is that you would probably have to carry him on your 53 man roster but that wouldn't be a bad thing if the staff thought he could excel enough to be the backup to Dnabb in 2011. If that were the case, I would envision a lineup like

    Starter: Noodle (Makes me sick to type that by the way)
    Backup: Dnabb
    Third: Skelton

    Pickup Hiller or someone like him (UDFA) and put him on the PS for a year or two.

    Again, no CAP means Bryzcheapski could get everyone under contract this year. Of course he would have to make sure that it all comes under this year, just in case the CAP comes back. Don't want to restructure anything in 2011.

    Long story short, I can't believe anyone would be to upset if Dnabb came in as a backup for one year behind the Noodle. If they are upset with that plan, they are crazier than I am for wanting the Noodle gone. :P
    I wouldn't be upset if McNabb would come in to back up Favre. The problem is I think it is unrealistic. I don't think the Vikings would trade for him if Favre would to come back. I also don't believe McNabb would want to come as the backup. Great scenario but I don't think it's happening.

    As much as I like Favre I think it would be a better deal to trade for McNabb at this point. It gives the Vikings enough time to groom a young prospect other than what we have now.
    I'm not so sure it is that unrealistic considering the environment we are in right now with respect to no CAP.

    I just keep harkening back to what Zygi, Ricky Boy and the Chiller have all said.....

    They are not gonna let the Noodle drive thier decisions. To me, the assumption is that if they can get Dnabb they go get him regardless of what the Noodle decides.

    If he is there, good on them. Best one/two QB situation in the league, which would only last a (UNCAPPED) year by the way.

    The Iggles let the cat out of the bag which cause Dnabb to followup with his comments about not signing a long term contract with anyone, so that kindof took some of thier bargaining power away which could, in the end, wind up making him available to us for say a 62nd or possibly lower if no other suitors come around that would be willing to give up a top pick for a QB for one year.
    I don't think it's even about the cap. I don't see McNabb agreeing to coming here as a backup when he can go almost any other place as a starter. Like I stated. Great scenario but I'm not sure how realistic it would actually be.
    Well if we traded for Mcnabb would he have a choice in the matter? He is forced to play back up to Favre and next year we sign him to a contract with starter money and hes guaranteed the starting position. Or am I missing something. People are acting like Mcnabb would have a choice of coming here after he was traded. Does he?
    Two things.....

    1. He only has one year remaining on his contract. We (any team) can trade for him all they want, but if he isn't happy he isn't gonna resign.

    2. I think you want to have happy players. Why bring him in if he isn't gonna be happy taking a back seat for a year.

    All that aside, I think that ole Dnabb already knows that the Noodle is coming back. I also think he knows that the best place for him is on this team.

    More importantly, I think he knew all this before he made the statement that the only place he wants to play (other than the Iggles) is MN.

    Sooooo, putting 2 and 2 together, one would have to come up with the answer 4, which equates to, he has already said that he would be happy in that situation for a year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #104
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    ejmat wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    No, I would NOT.

    First, Favre is still the better QB. He's also, despite the age, more durable.

    Second, the FIX for our QB predicament is NOT to go out and acquire cast off QB's, it is to find one with some life left in him that can actually play. Neither of the guys behind Favre fit that description, and adding McNabb to the roster won't help it either.

    McNabb doesn't put us in any better position than Favre does in the long term.

    Caine

    I have to ask. What is long term in the NFL? Sorry but I can't agree with that. I understand the love for Favre. I'm in the same boat. However, we all know what Favre brings to the table. One more year at most. McNabb gives us another 3-4, or more to develop a new QB. McNabb may not be as good as Favre but he has taken his team to 5 NFCCGs mostly with no real weapons. He still has more left in the tank as we as Viking fans find out year after year. We have never beaten him.

    I am in the category of wanting Favre back. However, after thinking about this McNabb would put us in a better long term situation than Favre would. We are not going to fix that position over night and McNabb could give the confort of a few years to develop someone.
    3-4 years? McNabb is a 2 year guy max. If he sticks around longer, we're going to be in a sore spot. His skills are declining, he's constantly gettting hurt, I just don't think he'll last 4 years, which is why i'm slightly wary about getting him. He'll be a good patch, but thats it. We're going to have a young QB starting in two years unless we go get yet another vet.
    I happen to think he has another 3-4 good years left. In what way have his skills decline? I think he still does pretty well. Better than a lot of other starters in the league.

    It's true he is getting older. Many people said Favre skills declined too. Well he proved them all wrong. McNabb has been a good QB in this league for 11 years. In fact Peyton Manning is older than McNabb. So to think McNabb could past another 3-4 years is not that far fetched.
    Its not age, its just how long I think they'll last. McNabb can play very well when he's at his best. However, he's missed alot of games due to injury, his body is breaking down. Both Favre and Manning have never missed a game in their entire career. Injuries have started to take their toll on McNabb a few years ago, and it will keep getting worse. He can be good for us for a little while, but I would still not be comfortable until we get a young guy to groom for the future.

  5. #105
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    12purplepride28 wrote:
    True, but Manning hasn't had consistent injury problems
    I hear ya about injury concerns, but I wonder if some of those issues might not have been as prevalent if he was on a team that didn't require him to run for his life all the time.

    Lets not forget, there were some years in there when the OL wasn't really anything to get all fired up about. Mix that in with basically no WR's and you got a QB on a pass happy team that has no protection and no one to unload it to.

    Short of it, better team, less injuries.
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  6. #106
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    ejmat wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    gregair13 wrote:
    I should actually read the rest of this thread to see what the heck you all are trying to say, but here is my opinion in very few words:

    If Favre stays, he is our starter. If he does not come back, trade whatever the eagles want for McNabb. He would be a great qb with the offensive players that we have. Good running game, a few deep threats, a good TE across the middle. He would have tons of options and with our average Oline, he could use his legs and scramble to get away from the great pass rushers in our division.
    Mostly, I'm just trying to spin my good friend Caine up a bit. He doesn't have many buttons to push, but when I get a chance I like to push one once in awhile.

    In the end, I think he will forgive me this one little bit of fun.

    As to my real opinion....

    I would love to see them give up atleast the 30th this year for Dnabb, Shitcan Sage and resign TJ to the going market price. That would give us the following at QB this year:

    Starter: Noodle
    Backup: Dnabb
    Third String: TJ

    I would also like them to invest a late round pick on one of 3 cats if they are there......

    a. Skelton. Big arm. Accurate. Still Raw. Needs to improve footwork.
    b. Robinson. Same as Skelton but as big of an arm. Probably a bit more polished in reading defenses. Not a scrambler, but moves in the pocket well.
    c. Hiller. Same as Robinson, but seems to struggle with accuracey on his out patterns.

    Problem with skelton is that you would probably have to carry him on your 53 man roster but that wouldn't be a bad thing if the staff thought he could excel enough to be the backup to Dnabb in 2011. If that were the case, I would envision a lineup like

    Starter: Noodle (Makes me sick to type that by the way)
    Backup: Dnabb
    Third: Skelton

    Pickup Hiller or someone like him (UDFA) and put him on the PS for a year or two.

    Again, no CAP means Bryzcheapski could get everyone under contract this year. Of course he would have to make sure that it all comes under this year, just in case the CAP comes back. Don't want to restructure anything in 2011.

    Long story short, I can't believe anyone would be to upset if Dnabb came in as a backup for one year behind the Noodle. If they are upset with that plan, they are crazier than I am for wanting the Noodle gone. :P
    I wouldn't be upset if McNabb would come in to back up Favre. The problem is I think it is unrealistic. I don't think the Vikings would trade for him if Favre would to come back. I also don't believe McNabb would want to come as the backup. Great scenario but I don't think it's happening.

    As much as I like Favre I think it would be a better deal to trade for McNabb at this point. It gives the Vikings enough time to groom a young prospect other than what we have now.
    I'm not so sure it is that unrealistic considering the environment we are in right now with respect to no CAP.

    I just keep harkening back to what Zygi, Ricky Boy and the Chiller have all said.....

    They are not gonna let the Noodle drive thier decisions. To me, the assumption is that if they can get Dnabb they go get him regardless of what the Noodle decides.

    If he is there, good on them. Best one/two QB situation in the league, which would only last a (UNCAPPED) year by the way.

    The Iggles let the cat out of the bag which cause Dnabb to followup with his comments about not signing a long term contract with anyone, so that kindof took some of thier bargaining power away which could, in the end, wind up making him available to us for say a 62nd or possibly lower if no other suitors come around that would be willing to give up a top pick for a QB for one year.
    I don't think it's even about the cap. I don't see McNabb agreeing to coming here as a backup when he can go almost any other place as a starter. Like I stated. Great scenario but I'm not sure how realistic it would actually be.
    I have to agree with EJ on this one. I don't see McNabb signing on to be a backup for anyone. Too few of years left in his playing life and too tender of an ego.

  7. #107
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I happen to think he has another 3-4 good years left. In what way have his skills decline? I think he still does pretty well. Better than a lot of other starters in the league.

    It's true he is getting older. Many people said Favre skills declined too. Well he proved them all wrong. McNabb has been a good QB in this league for 11 years. In fact Peyton Manning is older than McNabb. So to think McNabb could past another 3-4 years is not that far fetched.
    Its not age, its just how long I think they'll last. McNabb can play very well when he's at his best. However, he's missed alot of games due to injury, his body is breaking down. Both Favre and Manning have never missed a game in their entire career. Injuries have started to take their toll on McNabb a few years ago, and it will keep getting worse. He can be good for us for a little while, but I would still not be comfortable until we get a young guy to groom for the future.[/quote]
    I wouldn't call a MCL tear "Breaking down". I would call that a bad attempt at trying to get out of bounds.

    As to declining. I consider him consistent, especially when I look at ypc average and INT's.

    NFL.com Stats
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  8. #108
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    McNabb is a darn good QB...I wouldn't ever try and say otherwise. Would he be an assett here? Yes...but a SHORT TERM one (A concept that I know ejmat is struggling to grasp).

    There are other complications to signing McNabb...

    1: Does Donovan want to ride the pine behind Favre? I doubt it. He's a starter...he's a competitor. Being "benched", even for only 1 year, would gall him. If Favre comes back, I'd expect Donovan to want a shot at starting...so someone is getting pissed off.

    1A: Does Favre come back if we get McNabb? Maybe not, for the same reasons above. Favre is a savior right now...he's saving us from the perpetual mediocrity of Jackson/Rosenfels. McNabb is another story, and if we have him, we no longer NEED Brett...

    2: McNabb doesn't want to sign a "long term" (there's that phrase again...) deal. He wants to ride out his current contract and negotiate after...why? It's either to give him the option to come to the Vikings in a year when his contract expires, or it's because he's afraid that a long term deal would be for LESS than he's making now. Either way, his unwillingness to commit is a red flag...unless, of course, he doesn't want to sign a long term deal anywhere but HERE...(ejmat, it's still not REALLY a long term deal, because he's at the tail end of his career and we're not likely to get more than 2-4 good years from him).

    3: Signing McNabb DEFINATELY signals to Tarvaris Jackson that his opportunity in Minnesota - and in the NFL - is over. That means that all the press conferences for the last 3 years where Childress kept claiming how ready Jackson was, and how much he'd improved, were all just so much horse pucky (As I've long maintained anyway). That means that the one QB project that Chiller worked so hard to sell all of us is irrevocably a BUST. Not that bringing Favre in for 1-2 years didn't already say that (it did), but there are still a handful of misguided dreamers out there who think Jackson might make a triumphant return (nope...not gonna happen...we've seen what he can do, and that's why Favre and McNabb are hot topics)

    4: With McNabb saying he'd prefer to play in Minnesota, which NFL franchise out there wants to be the Jets for him this season? There's no one in the NFL who isn't aware of the connection between McNabb and Chiller. And they are all acutely aware of the Vikings QB deficit (without Favre). Does someone else want to pay McNabb for 1 season only to watch him bolt to the Vikes once Favre is for sure (maybe) retired? No one else is in a "Win Now" position that needs a QB. That means taht McNabb would HAVE to come here...but then you have the circus above preventing it....OY VEY!!!

    5: He does have injury issues. As I stated before, he's only played 4 complete seasons in his career. Do we know he'll hold up for us? Or will we be stuckl with Jackson anyway? ...and don't even try and sell me on the idea that Jackson and Rosenfel's are quality back-ups due to their starting excperience...all that means is that they have been game tested and found wanting - which is why they aren't starting NOW. In short, we have NO QB depth...will McNabb get back up after the late cheap hits from New Orleans? I don't know.

    Caine

  9. #109
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    tastywaves wrote:
    I have to agree with EJ on this one. I don't see McNabb signing on to be a backup for anyone. Too few of years left in his playing life and too tender of an ego.
    So how do you interpret his comments about only wanting to come to MN if he can't stay an Iggle?

    My assumption is that he knows there is a damn good chance the Noodle is coming back. My next assumption is that he knows he will not be considered the starter ahead of the Noodle.

    One can only surmise, based on those two assumptions, that he in fact, might just be happy to back the Noodle up for 1 year, knowing all the while that.....

    a) The Noodle could go down.
    b) The Noodle will not be back for a 3rd year.
    c) It would allow him time to get comfortable with the offense.

    Is it a reach? Yes, but out of the question? I don't think so.
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  10. #110
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    Re:Would you trade a 2 for a 5 and let 4 say goodbye?

    Marrdro wrote:
    tastywaves wrote:
    I have to agree with EJ on this one. I don't see McNabb signing on to be a backup for anyone. Too few of years left in his playing life and too tender of an ego.
    So how do you interpret his comments about only wanting to come to MN if he can't stay an Iggle?

    My assumption is that he knows there is a damn good chance the Noodle is coming back. My next assumption is that he knows he will not be considered the starter ahead of the Noodle.

    One can only surmise, based on those two assumptions, that he in fact, might just be happy to back the Noodle up for 1 year, knowing all the while that.....

    a) The Noodle could go down.
    b) The Noodle will not be back for a 3rd year.
    c) It would allow him time to get comfortable with the offense.

    Is it a reach? Yes, but out of the question? I don't think so.
    I try not to read too much into anything reported or quoted. There is always a matter of context and purpose that leaves way too much speculation.

    Nothing is ever out of the question, I can see MN liking this situation. I just have a hard time believing that Donovan would agree to a backup role at this point in his career. All your points favor the vikings org much more than Donovan. If he wants to save wear and tear on his body and carry a clipboard for Favre, then so be it. Competitive cats that are in their prime seldom will accept a secondary role.

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