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  1. #81
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1085359
    A few times it's been mentioned that Wilf is too involved in the football operations. I just wonder where this information comes from? I've never got that feeling at all. I have felt like he's spend top dollar on getting the best staff possible to run things, and given them free run. It hasn't worked, but then again he's only owned the team for 5 years.

    I don't have a problem with the WCO. I think we just need better coaches and players to execute it. The eagles are perennial contenders with the WCO. I think I've seen enough of the zone blocking scheme though.
    After the Foley, Chiller, Spielman shouting match, and the final release of Foley (for screwing the pooch on landing Cutler or Clemens) the Wilfs released a clip that said they would take a greater hand in Football operations, especially if the Triad couldn't come to an agreement.

    My guess, after he figured out that the verbiage in the HC's contract gave him the latitude to shitcan players like PatsRandy, he will continue to take a more active role in those types of decisions.
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  2. #82
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085363
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085351
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085271
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1084569
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1084552
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1084544
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1084540
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1084496
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1084494
    The bigger question - for me anyway - is "Do we really WANT McNabb?"

    When we had Chiller here, it made sense. The *cough* "KAO" *cough* was built around a system McNabb knew well. With a complete lack of realistic QB options here, it was a slam dunk certainty that we were going to make a play for McNabb if he was available.

    Now, we have to wait and see who the next HC/OC will be. Then we have to assess whether or not McNabb will fit the new system well.

    And, most importantly, we have to find our NEXT QB within the next 2 years, regardless of who we acquire now.

    Make no mistake, McNabb can help us transition to the new system - I have no doubts about that. But the idea of the perfect marriage between System and QB is now gone. And McNabb's lack of success in Washington does raise questions - depending upon who the new HC/OC will be.

    Caine
    True, but as the team sits now, would Frasier if he was still coach, can Bevell to bring in his own. I am not sure changing our offensive scheme is the best idea at this time. Maybe it is. This topic goes into the debate of the next coach.

    I agree, my comments for wanting McNabb is only if we stay with the WCO. Fits my drive the car statement, if we switch cars, I want another driver besides McNabb. I am sure that McNabb would like to go to a team that has the WCO. He doesn't want to learn a new system, old dog new trick.
    Why would we NOT change the offensive scheme? It SUCKS. The *cough* KAO *cough* has failed on every level except for ONE season - when Favre went on a tear.

    My question to you would be "Why in the name of all that is holy would you choose to KEEP this abortion of an offensive scheme?!?!?!?!"

    As for Bevell, he had BETTER be fired.

    Chiller wasn't the entire problem. The PROBLEMS were (and are):

    1: No "Football guy" calling the shots.
    2: Chiller
    3: Chiller's stupid "KAO".
    4: Bevell - an empty shirt coordinator.
    5: The players Chiller brought in.

    #1 we may not see fixed. If we don't, expect more rough seasons.

    #2 was canned, but we wait to see how he is replaced. It makes NO sense to bring in another project coach (Frazier) since we don't have the structure to build that coach up (We have Wilf and the Triumvirate of Terror, not a GM)

    #3 should be gone aloing with #2 or we're just spinning our wheels.

    #4 should have been gone a LONG time ago.

    #5 should be rectified only if we correct all of the above.

    Caine
    It really depends on the coach that you bring in. If you keep Leslie, he is a defensive coach and he probably keeps the WCO brings in a guy for OC that knows can run the offense. You could bring in someone like Chuckie and he would still implement the WCO. If you bring in a guy like Fischer or Cowher then the offense is out the window.

    I am not a proponent for changing the system or keeping it. But with that said, I think that our offense will look similar in personnel next season, might be easier not to scrap it. The WCO does work for some teams and some coaches even if it didn't work for us and our coach. There are many questions that have to be answered, the ones you posed about how big of an overhaul is donein the organization.

    In a perfect world it would be nice to label a guy as GM and then hire a coach. Like I said, depends on who you hire as coach as to if the system is changed.

    I just want to be able to win again as fast as possible, don't want to be at the bottom of the North for years. I am not the guy to make those decision.
    I don't want to be at the bottom for years either...but neither do I want to watch us slowly crawl up towards mediocrity, only to have to start over 5 years later.

    Bottom line, a LOT hinges on who Zygi brings in to be the HC, and IMHO if he keeps Frazier, we're fucked.
    Nothing against Leslie...more to do with Zygi still trying to be part of the picture.

    Caine
    I can see what you're talking about, Frazier is too close to the team to overhaul the staff and roster. He has a certain amount of comfort with the coaches and players and I'm sure there are some changes he would like to make but I doubt he will attack the roster and overall staff to change things the same way an outside coach and his staff would grade and change things.
    Yes and no...

    By keeping Frazier, Wilf is giving a shot to another unproven HC Candidate. That also means that the chain of command will mostly stay the same - with Wilf in the loop.

    THAT would be a colossal mistake.

    IMO, the only way we truly dig out of this mess is to remove Zygi -and his family - from FOOTBALL decisions. However well intentioned, they are merely RICH FANS, and no more qualified to make football decisions than most of us would be. Hell, many of us would be BETTER at it...we're just not rich enough.

    So, if Zygi hires Leslie - which I fear he might - he is keeping himself and his family in the power loop...and we will be hamstrung by that until either he realizes that he and his family are NOT "football guys", he figures it out and becomes a football guy, or he moves or sells the team.

    So, I fervently hope that Leslie Frazier is NOT our new HC, because if he is I see us continuing down this craptacular path that Wilf and Chiller set us on 5 years ago.

    Caine
    Wilf and Chiller huh. I find it comical that you leave out Foley/Spielman and Bryzcheapski for the mess we are in.

    One thing I will agree with you on, as we've both been on the same soapbox since the Triad thingamajib was announced was this team needs a GM.

    Best thing that the Wilfs (Not Leslie, Not Spielman, Not Brzcheapski) can do is go talk to his good friend the Tuna. Ask him to bring his authoritarian style of leadership over and straighten this mess out or atleast ask him for the best option for a cat that can come in and be the GM.
    Foley got fired because Wilf and CHiller didn't like him.

    Spielamn is Wilf's bitch.

    Brzexzyztzhzizmzyzbhzuki is just a money guy - he's not a part of teh player acquisition picture until money gets discussed.

    That comes down to decisions being made by CHILLER and vetted by Wilf.

    Maybe I'm underselling Spielman, but that's sure how it looks from here.

    Caine
    I think you really have to break it down a bit more than that.

    For player acquisition, Spielman, Chiller and Bryzcheapski all have an equal say with the Wilfs as having a final vote if those 3 can't decide.

    For the 53 man roster, the Chiller (or HC) is the man. What will be interesting to see is if that changes a bit after the PatsRandy release.

    My guess the owner will have given Leslie some additional guidance on that. Something along the lines of (if he is a backup/no name, you can shitcan him, if he is a star, you have to get my vote).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #83
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085367
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085363
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085351
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1085271
    Quote Originally Posted by "vikinggreg" #1084569
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1084552
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1084544
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1084540
    Quote Originally Posted by "snowinapril" #1084496
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1084494
    The bigger question - for me anyway - is "Do we really WANT McNabb?"

    When we had Chiller here, it made sense. The *cough* "KAO" *cough* was built around a system McNabb knew well. With a complete lack of realistic QB options here, it was a slam dunk certainty that we were going to make a play for McNabb if he was available.

    Now, we have to wait and see who the next HC/OC will be. Then we have to assess whether or not McNabb will fit the new system well.

    And, most importantly, we have to find our NEXT QB within the next 2 years, regardless of who we acquire now.

    Make no mistake, McNabb can help us transition to the new system - I have no doubts about that. But the idea of the perfect marriage between System and QB is now gone. And McNabb's lack of success in Washington does raise questions - depending upon who the new HC/OC will be.

    Caine
    True, but as the team sits now, would Frasier if he was still coach, can Bevell to bring in his own. I am not sure changing our offensive scheme is the best idea at this time. Maybe it is. This topic goes into the debate of the next coach.

    I agree, my comments for wanting McNabb is only if we stay with the WCO. Fits my drive the car statement, if we switch cars, I want another driver besides McNabb. I am sure that McNabb would like to go to a team that has the WCO. He doesn't want to learn a new system, old dog new trick.
    Why would we NOT change the offensive scheme? It SUCKS. The *cough* KAO *cough* has failed on every level except for ONE season - when Favre went on a tear.

    My question to you would be "Why in the name of all that is holy would you choose to KEEP this abortion of an offensive scheme?!?!?!?!"

    As for Bevell, he had BETTER be fired.

    Chiller wasn't the entire problem. The PROBLEMS were (and are):

    1: No "Football guy" calling the shots.
    2: Chiller
    3: Chiller's stupid "KAO".
    4: Bevell - an empty shirt coordinator.
    5: The players Chiller brought in.

    #1 we may not see fixed. If we don't, expect more rough seasons.

    #2 was canned, but we wait to see how he is replaced. It makes NO sense to bring in another project coach (Frazier) since we don't have the structure to build that coach up (We have Wilf and the Triumvirate of Terror, not a GM)

    #3 should be gone aloing with #2 or we're just spinning our wheels.

    #4 should have been gone a LONG time ago.

    #5 should be rectified only if we correct all of the above.

    Caine
    It really depends on the coach that you bring in. If you keep Leslie, he is a defensive coach and he probably keeps the WCO brings in a guy for OC that knows can run the offense. You could bring in someone like Chuckie and he would still implement the WCO. If you bring in a guy like Fischer or Cowher then the offense is out the window.

    I am not a proponent for changing the system or keeping it. But with that said, I think that our offense will look similar in personnel next season, might be easier not to scrap it. The WCO does work for some teams and some coaches even if it didn't work for us and our coach. There are many questions that have to be answered, the ones you posed about how big of an overhaul is donein the organization.

    In a perfect world it would be nice to label a guy as GM and then hire a coach. Like I said, depends on who you hire as coach as to if the system is changed.

    I just want to be able to win again as fast as possible, don't want to be at the bottom of the North for years. I am not the guy to make those decision.
    I don't want to be at the bottom for years either...but neither do I want to watch us slowly crawl up towards mediocrity, only to have to start over 5 years later.

    Bottom line, a LOT hinges on who Zygi brings in to be the HC, and IMHO if he keeps Frazier, we're fucked.
    Nothing against Leslie...more to do with Zygi still trying to be part of the picture.

    Caine
    I can see what you're talking about, Frazier is too close to the team to overhaul the staff and roster. He has a certain amount of comfort with the coaches and players and I'm sure there are some changes he would like to make but I doubt he will attack the roster and overall staff to change things the same way an outside coach and his staff would grade and change things.
    Yes and no...

    By keeping Frazier, Wilf is giving a shot to another unproven HC Candidate. That also means that the chain of command will mostly stay the same - with Wilf in the loop.

    THAT would be a colossal mistake.

    IMO, the only way we truly dig out of this mess is to remove Zygi -and his family - from FOOTBALL decisions. However well intentioned, they are merely RICH FANS, and no more qualified to make football decisions than most of us would be. Hell, many of us would be BETTER at it...we're just not rich enough.

    So, if Zygi hires Leslie - which I fear he might - he is keeping himself and his family in the power loop...and we will be hamstrung by that until either he realizes that he and his family are NOT "football guys", he figures it out and becomes a football guy, or he moves or sells the team.

    So, I fervently hope that Leslie Frazier is NOT our new HC, because if he is I see us continuing down this craptacular path that Wilf and Chiller set us on 5 years ago.

    Caine
    Wilf and Chiller huh. I find it comical that you leave out Foley/Spielman and Bryzcheapski for the mess we are in.

    One thing I will agree with you on, as we've both been on the same soapbox since the Triad thingamajib was announced was this team needs a GM.

    Best thing that the Wilfs (Not Leslie, Not Spielman, Not Brzcheapski) can do is go talk to his good friend the Tuna. Ask him to bring his authoritarian style of leadership over and straighten this mess out or atleast ask him for the best option for a cat that can come in and be the GM.
    Foley got fired because Wilf and CHiller didn't like him.

    Spielamn is Wilf's bitch.

    Brzexzyztzhzizmzyzbhzuki is just a money guy - he's not a part of teh player acquisition picture until money gets discussed.

    That comes down to decisions being made by CHILLER and vetted by Wilf.

    Maybe I'm underselling Spielman, but that's sure how it looks from here.

    Caine
    I think you really have to break it down a bit more than that.

    For player acquisition, Spielman, Chiller and Bryzcheapski all have an equal say with the Wilfs as having a final vote if those 3 can't decide.

    For the 53 man roster, the Chiller (or HC) is the man. What will be interesting to see is if that changes a bit after the PatsRandy release.

    My guess the owner will have given Leslie some additional guidance on that. Something along the lines of (if he is a backup/no name, you can shitcan him, if he is a star, you have to get my vote).
    I disagree strongly. It was widely reported that Childress had verbiage put into his contract that he had the final say in all roster decisions. That is exactly why he cut Moss and the rest of the FO didn't even know it until they heard second hand.

    There was no Rock,Paper Scissors type of scenario at all between Childress, Spielman and Bryzzy.It was Chilly's way and the other two had to find a way to make it happen.

  4. #84
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085352
    Donovan McNabb was benched on Sunday and wasn’t happy about the decision, made only a few days before the game. The tension between him and Mike Shanahan has renewed speculation that McNabb will be gone by next season, and the Vikings are one of the connect-the-dots choices.

    Could the Vikings be in the market for a disgruntled Donovan McNabb? Considering the alternatives, it might well be in the cards for the Vikings.
    McNabb benching will renew Vikings rumors
    At first, I really thought this would be a great option next year, however, the more I watch him play the less I like that option anymore.

    Cat was always a bit "Low" with accuracey but he seems to have hit an all time "low" this year in that catagory.

    Could be that he and his recievers have never really synched, but I think it probably has something to do with to many hits.
    The thing with McNabb is that he'll be looking for a long contract and won't want to be here as fill-in until we have a new QB groomed. So I'd prefer to see a cheaper alternative than bringing him in
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  5. #85
    Mark_The_Viking is offline Asst. Coach
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    I'm 47 years old and never had a concussion in my life, however, Jared Allen hits me at full tilt I might get one. Oh my I'm prone to concussions.

    People need to think just a bit before they put finger to keyboard
    Purple till i die

  6. #86
    Mark_The_Viking is offline Asst. Coach
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    As far as the original question. The answer has to be NO!

    Why would we want to start again with a QB who has only ever proven one thing, he cant win with any conistency or in the big oone.

    A young guy with some talent (what I wouldn't give to have Tyrod Taylor)in the draft this year. I know the draft can be a gamble but if we get it right we have the chance to build on something. I just feel we keep putting a crap roof on a good building (honestly, no pun intended).

    Scrambling, mobile QB are the future of this game whether we like it or not. They're careers will be shorter for sure but they add another dimension to the offense that the D have to cater for. Imagine a Vick style QB with Harvin, Rice and Peterson, as a defence where do you go? If the QB had some real quality and could recognise and exploit the D setup the sky's the limit.

    My 2c
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  7. #87
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1085115
    Quote Originally Posted by "gamecocksbaseball31" #1084981
    McNabb may be available... The question is how likely is it that we go after him without Chilly here anymore. It may be a possibility, but there are some other options to bridge the gap because we do HAVE to draft a first round quarterback this year.
    What an excellent post. Couple of comments/questions for ya.....

    Carson Palmer: may become available after a dismal year in Cincinnati.
    Just say no. I watch him every week. He just isn't the same QB he was a couple of years ago. My guess is Cinci will opt to keep him one more year and draft someone in this draft especially if they are in the top 5 or 6 in the draft.

    Kyle Orton: The Tim Tebow era has started in Denver and Orton is a free agent. He could be a hot commodity this off-season.
    Z mentioned him earlier in another thread and I like the idea. Problem is, he will be, as you said, a hot commodity. Not sure if we will have the revenue/cash to go after him if we get a QB in the top of the draft.

    Tyler Thigpen: Do we bring him back?
    No.

    Matt Moore: Possibility, but I'm not a huge fan
    Nooooooo. He couldn't beat out Clausen for goodness sake.

    Then we have to get one of these guys in the draft:
    Andrew Luck (won't happen, unfortunately)
    Ryan Mallett
    Jake Locker
    Cam Newton (Not sold on him as a NFL QB)
    Agree, but we really need someone at the top of the draft to go in another direction than QB to get one and thats if they all elect to come out.


    Some Free Agents I would like to see the Vikings get after:
    RB Darren Sproles
    FB Vonta Leach
    FB Le'Ron McClain
    WR Randy Moss
    WR Jacoby Jones
    C Nick Mangold (would love to see him in Minny, but the Jets will definitely keep him)
    CB Johnathan Joseph
    CB Ike Taylor
    S Antoine Bethea
    S OJ Atogwe
    I think we are fine at RB, WR and don't need a FB in the current scheme.

    Not sure why you still think Randy is a viable option. Did you catch him calling into the radio show as "Woody" saying how much he disliked Coach Fisher?


    We must keep our key in-house free agents as well such as Rice and Greenway. We really need to solidify the DB position and our O-line besides the obvious need at QB.
    Problem is, although we need to keep them, I don't think we will be able to.

    On a side note, I don't see any concern over our DT issues. Do you think we are good there?
    As for Carson Palmer, I was just listing possible options. My guess is they keep him one more year also, but they will definitely be searching for new WR's for him to throw to.

    I see 5 teams ahead of the Vikings with possible QB issues (Carolina, Cincinnati, Arizona, Buffalo, and San Francisco). The thing is, not all of them are going to draft a top ten QB. Besides other glaring issues with their team, head coaches who are on the hot seat aren't going to risk their job with a rookie QB calling the plays. They will go with what they have or bring in a vet to fill the void. I think Luck is gone for sure and maybe one more off the board before we pick. Depending on how Newton plays in the National Championship and the Senior Bowl/combine/pro days etc. I could see him having a Clausen type slide.

    I meantioned Darren Sproles as a possible pick up for his multiple duties he has. However, if we retain Lorenzo Booker, I'd be happy with that and we wouldn't have to spend more money on Sproles.

    I really liked what AD did with Tony Richardson in town. I think if we went out and got a proven fullback such as Leach or McClain, he could have another HUGE year.

    WR may be set, but I think we need to bring in one player. Depending on how Jaymar Johnson is doing, Berrian should be gone no matter what. I think a Jacoby Jones would be a great pick up. As for Randy, if he'd come to town for cheap I would love it. I will never turn my back on him, even if it may be the right decision not to bring him back.

    Our main focus is at O-line and all of the DB's. Winfield is getting old and Ced obviously has trouble staying healthy. Allowing Winfield to move to a safety or into the nickel by bringing in Jonathan Joseph would be huge for us. I can't stand watching Lito Sheppard and Asher Allen for another season.

    The D-line is getting old, and yes it is a need, but not an immediate one. What I mean by that is Guion, Fred Evans, and Jimmy Kennedy are viable options right now. We may need to bring in a DT, but right now I think our focus needs to be on other places.

    You don't think we'll be able to keep our key FA? I think Rice and Greenway are two that we must first lock down before anything else. Ray Edwards? Honestly, I really don't care. I have been saying for a long time that Robison is better than him and he should be starting opposite Jared Allen. Who do you think is gone from our free agents at the end of the season?

  8. #88
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Time to make a move for Eli. He sucks bad enough now for the Giants to possibly get rid of him. There are plenty on here who seem to want to pick up other teams garbage thinking they still have something left, if they ever had it.

    Let's make the move
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  9. #89
    rednorsk is offline Rookie
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Most of the Viking receivers stand and wait for the ball to come to them instead of coming back to the ball. Watch the Packers receivers they are so much better at that.
    None

  10. #90
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    Will We Get McNabb???

    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1085711
    Time to make a move for Eli. He sucks bad enough now for the Giants to possibly get rid of him. There are plenty on here who seem to want to pick up other teams garbage thinking they still have something left, if they ever had it.

    Let's make the move
    Not a chance the Giants part with Eli, and if they did the Vikings would be stupid not to go after him. Super bowl winner that has never missed a game and is 29. Will likely pass for 4,000 yards and 30+ TDs.

    Keep in mind that Favre was someone elses garbage, as was brees, Schaub, Cassel, Vick off the top of my head.

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