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  1. #1
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14972008/draft-preview-des-fraught-with-round-1-peril

    As the article points out. Recently, 1st round DEs have mostly been bust. Or not worth of their first round picks. Drafting any position will have it's ups and downs but people who say go DE because QB is risky are crazy.

  2. #2
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    I have a problem with CBS sports this year at work so I can't read the article.

    I'm against take a DE cause we have enough of them already.

    69 Jared Allen DE 29 6-6 270 8 Idaho State
    -- Adrian Awasom DE 27 6-5 280 3 North Texas
    91 Ray Edwards DE 26 6-5 268 6 Purdue
    97 Everson Griffen DE 23 6-3 273 2 USC
    96 Brian Robison DE 27 6-3 259 5 Texas

    When you look at how many DLmen we carry and add that mix to this mix...

    90 Fred Evans DT 27 6-4 305 6 Texas State
    98 Letroy Guion DT 23 6-4 303 4 Florida State
    95 Tremaine Johnson DT 25 6-2 285 1 LSU
    73 Jimmy Kennedy DT 31 6-4 320 9 Penn State
    93 Kevin Williams DT 30 6-5 311 9 Oklahoma State
    94 Pat Williams DT 38 6-3 317 15 Texas A&M

    I just don't see the need considering we could go into the season with the following roster:

    Jared Allen RDE
    Ray Edwards LDE
    Everson Griffen LDE
    Brian Robison RDE
    Kevin Williams DT
    Letroy Guion DT
    Jimmy Kennedy DT
    Pat Williams DT
    Rookie DT (Nick Fairley/Phil Taylor/Stephan Paea/Marvin Austin)

    With a rotation that looks like this......

    RDE JA/Rob/Griff
    DT Kdubb/JK/
    DT Guion/Phat Pat/Rookie
    LDE Ray/Griff/Rob

    I'm of a mind that Phat Pat will be asked back, but at a reduced role with Guion or a Rookie getting the lions share of the reps at the 0 technique with Phat Pat jumping in and doing his Patnesssssss late in games with fresh legs.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #3
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094395
    I have a problem with CBS sports this year at work so I can't read the article.

    I'm against take a DE cause we have enough of them already.

    69 Jared Allen DE 29 6-6 270 8 Idaho State
    -- Adrian Awasom DE 27 6-5 280 3 North Texas
    91 Ray Edwards DE 26 6-5 268 6 Purdue
    97 Everson Griffen DE 23 6-3 273 2 USC
    96 Brian Robison DE 27 6-3 259 5 Texas

    When you look at how many DLmen we carry and add that mix to this mix...

    90 Fred Evans DT 27 6-4 305 6 Texas State
    98 Letroy Guion DT 23 6-4 303 4 Florida State
    95 Tremaine Johnson DT 25 6-2 285 1 LSU
    73 Jimmy Kennedy DT 31 6-4 320 9 Penn State
    93 Kevin Williams DT 30 6-5 311 9 Oklahoma State
    94 Pat Williams DT 38 6-3 317 15 Texas A&M

    I just don't see the need considering we could go into the season with the following roster:

    Jared Allen RDE
    Ray Edwards LDE
    Everson Griffen LDE
    Brian Robison RDE
    Kevin Williams DT
    Letroy Guion DT
    Jimmy Kennedy DT
    Pat Williams DT
    Rookie DT (Nick Fairley/Phil Taylor/Stephan Paea/Marvin Austin)

    With a rotation that looks like this......

    RDE JA/Rob/Griff
    DT Kdubb/JK/
    DT Guion/Phat Pat/Rookie
    LDE Ray/Griff/Rob

    I'm of a mind that Phat Pat will be asked back, but at a reduced role with Guion or a Rookie getting the lions share of the reps at the 0 technique with Phat Pat jumping in and doing his Patnesssssss late in games with fresh legs.
    I don't think Edwards is back. I think the open market is going to snatch him up. His value may go down because of all the pass rushes in this draft though.

  4. #4
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    ***For your reading pleasure***

    "Bowers and Robert Quinn are at the top of a position that lately has been as reliable as the Dallas Cowboys in December. And the roll call, please. Gaines Adams was the first defensive end off the board in the 2007 draft, and he was such a disappointment Tampa Bay traded him to Chicago, where he fizzled before his unexpected death in 2010.

    Jamaal Anderson was the second defensive end taken that year, and Atlanta has gotten so little out of the guy it's looking for a replacement in this year's draft. The same goes for Jarvis Moss, whom Denver made the third defensive end taken in 2007, then released last season.

    Fast forward to 2008, and it's more of the same. Vernon Gholston. Derrick Harvey. Lawrence Jackson. I think you get the idea.

    "The problem there is like it is with quarterbacks," said Vinny Cerrato, former executive vice president of football operations for Washington. "They get over drafted. Players get elevated because people see pass-rush ability, but then there's the question: Are they 4-3 defensive ends or 3-4 linebackers? Conversion guys? Linebackers or ends?"

    I'll tell you what they're not: Reliable draft picks. "

  5. #5
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094395
    I have a problem with CBS sports this year at work so I can't read the article.

    I'm against take a DE cause we have enough of them already.

    69 Jared Allen DE 29 6-6 270 8 Idaho State
    -- Adrian Awasom DE 27 6-5 280 3 North Texas
    91 Ray Edwards DE 26 6-5 268 6 Purdue
    97 Everson Griffen DE 23 6-3 273 2 USC
    96 Brian Robison DE 27 6-3 259 5 Texas

    When you look at how many DLmen we carry and add that mix to this mix...

    90 Fred Evans DT 27 6-4 305 6 Texas State
    98 Letroy Guion DT 23 6-4 303 4 Florida State
    95 Tremaine Johnson DT 25 6-2 285 1 LSU
    73 Jimmy Kennedy DT 31 6-4 320 9 Penn State
    93 Kevin Williams DT 30 6-5 311 9 Oklahoma State
    94 Pat Williams DT 38 6-3 317 15 Texas A&M

    I just don't see the need considering we could go into the season with the following roster:

    Jared Allen RDE
    Ray Edwards LDE
    Everson Griffen LDE
    Brian Robison RDE
    Kevin Williams DT
    Letroy Guion DT
    Jimmy Kennedy DT
    Pat Williams DT
    Rookie DT (Nick Fairley/Phil Taylor/Stephan Paea/Marvin Austin)

    With a rotation that looks like this......

    RDE JA/Rob/Griff
    DT Kdubb/JK/
    DT Guion/Phat Pat/Rookie
    LDE Ray/Griff/Rob

    I'm of a mind that Phat Pat will be asked back, but at a reduced role with Guion or a Rookie getting the lions share of the reps at the 0 technique with Phat Pat jumping in and doing his Patnesssssss late in games with fresh legs.
    I believe they will ask Pat back also. It sounds like he played injured last year and we just didn't hear about it. There may still be enough in the tank to help us. If he is agreeable to a smaller compensation package.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  6. #6
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094409
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094395
    I have a problem with CBS sports this year at work so I can't read the article.

    I'm against take a DE cause we have enough of them already.

    69 Jared Allen DE 29 6-6 270 8 Idaho State
    -- Adrian Awasom DE 27 6-5 280 3 North Texas
    91 Ray Edwards DE 26 6-5 268 6 Purdue
    97 Everson Griffen DE 23 6-3 273 2 USC
    96 Brian Robison DE 27 6-3 259 5 Texas

    When you look at how many DLmen we carry and add that mix to this mix...

    90 Fred Evans DT 27 6-4 305 6 Texas State
    98 Letroy Guion DT 23 6-4 303 4 Florida State
    95 Tremaine Johnson DT 25 6-2 285 1 LSU
    73 Jimmy Kennedy DT 31 6-4 320 9 Penn State
    93 Kevin Williams DT 30 6-5 311 9 Oklahoma State
    94 Pat Williams DT 38 6-3 317 15 Texas A&M

    I just don't see the need considering we could go into the season with the following roster:

    Jared Allen RDE
    Ray Edwards LDE
    Everson Griffen LDE
    Brian Robison RDE
    Kevin Williams DT
    Letroy Guion DT
    Jimmy Kennedy DT
    Pat Williams DT
    Rookie DT (Nick Fairley/Phil Taylor/Stephan Paea/Marvin Austin)

    With a rotation that looks like this......

    RDE JA/Rob/Griff
    DT Kdubb/JK/
    DT Guion/Phat Pat/Rookie
    LDE Ray/Griff/Rob

    I'm of a mind that Phat Pat will be asked back, but at a reduced role with Guion or a Rookie getting the lions share of the reps at the 0 technique with Phat Pat jumping in and doing his Patnesssssss late in games with fresh legs.
    I don't think Edwards is back. I think the open market is going to snatch him up. His value may go down because of all the pass rushes in this draft though.
    I'm torn. He has definately done enough to warrant a contract, but I still worry about if he can hold up to the rigors of the deal at LDE.

    In the end, if he doesn't come back,

    Adrian Awasom LDE 6'5'/280lbs. 3 years experience.

    POSITIVES: Athletic prospect who plays bigger than his listed size. Keeps his pads low to the ground, gets leverage on opponents and immediately alters his angle of attack. Stays with the action, strings plays laterally and tough to knock off his feet. Doubled by opponents yet holds his ground against blocks. Works his hands nicely, chases around the field to get involved in the action and wraps up opposing ball handlers. Plays with a nasty attitude and gets a good amount of momentum going up the field.

    NEGATIVES: Not quick or explosive off the snap and lacks speed to the flanks. Lacks bulk and slow getting off blocks. Not as productive as scouts would have hoped and labeled as a bit of an underachiever.

    ANALYSIS: A potential two-gap lineman who could also be used at the left defensive end position, Awasom possesses good upside for the next level. Plays a priority position and should be selected in the middle rounds yet must pick up the intensity to have any shot of sticking at the next level.
    Adrian Awasom

    Adrian Awasom is not quit as impressive with a 4.93 forty yard dash time and 23 reps in the bench press. He has played in 17 games for the New York Giants from 2005 – 2007 where he recorded an unimpressive 14 tackles and 1 sack. 2006 was his most productive year as a NFL pro with 10 tackles and 1 sack in 10 games. I think letting Ray Edwards leave the Vikings is a good move. I have confidence that Everson Griffen and Bryan Robison will be able to fill the void. Adding Adrian Awasom adds just one more opportunity for an experienced player to bloom mid-career. With the coaches assembled on the defensive side, players who don’t play hard, will simply not play. Go Vikings!!
    Minnesota Vikings Sign Adrian Awasom to a Two Year Futures Contract.


    Maybe Coach Pagac thinks the Giants had a diamond in the rough that wasn't a good fit for their scheme and was a better fit for ours. :dry:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #7
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094410
    ***For your reading pleasure***

    "Bowers and Robert Quinn are at the top of a position that lately has been as reliable as the Dallas Cowboys in December. And the roll call, please. Gaines Adams was the first defensive end off the board in the 2007 draft, and he was such a disappointment Tampa Bay traded him to Chicago, where he fizzled before his unexpected death in 2010.

    Jamaal Anderson was the second defensive end taken that year, and Atlanta has gotten so little out of the guy it's looking for a replacement in this year's draft. The same goes for Jarvis Moss, whom Denver made the third defensive end taken in 2007, then released last season.

    Fast forward to 2008, and it's more of the same. Vernon Gholston. Derrick Harvey. Lawrence Jackson. I think you get the idea.

    "The problem there is like it is with quarterbacks," said Vinny Cerrato, former executive vice president of football operations for Washington. "They get over drafted. Players get elevated because people see pass-rush ability, but then there's the question: Are they 4-3 defensive ends or 3-4 linebackers? Conversion guys? Linebackers or ends?"

    I'll tell you what they're not: Reliable draft picks. "
    Thanks Kev. I knew you'd hook me up.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #8
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094391
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14972008/draft-preview-des-fraught-with-round-1-peril

    As the article points out. Recently, 1st round DEs have mostly been bust. Or not worth of their first round picks. Drafting any position will have it's ups and downs but people who say go DE because QB is risky are crazy.
    Seems this years draft has quite a few good DE's. Yes it's a risky pick at the top of the board but there are 4 of them that appear to be worthy of a top to mid first round pick.
    If Ray isn't going to be signed (I believe they have a pretty good idea about that already), we need pressure from our front 4 to make the back end of the defense work. I feel it would be worth the gamble.

    Personally I would prefer we sign Ray to a long term contract. He has outplayed his contract as a fourth round pick and deserves to get paid.
    Then we can take a DT like Fairley or Liuget.

    I know we have a lot of defensive linemen on the roster but up to half of them aren't very good.
    No front 4 pressure = No defense = Little chance to win games with a rookie QB.
    It is a strong defensive draft. I hope we take advantage of it.

    I'm not a Locker fan but would take Newton if he slid to 12. BTW, I don't think Carolina is going to take him, but Buffalo will.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  9. #9
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1094415
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094391
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14972008/draft-preview-des-fraught-with-round-1-peril

    As the article points out. Recently, 1st round DEs have mostly been bust. Or not worth of their first round picks. Drafting any position will have it's ups and downs but people who say go DE because QB is risky are crazy.
    Seems this years draft has quite a few good DE's. Yes it's a risky pick at the top of the board but there are 4 of them that appear to be worthy of a top to mid first round pick.
    If Ray isn't going to be signed (I believe they have a pretty good idea about that already), we need pressure from our front 4 to make the back end of the defense work. I feel it would be worth the gamble.

    Personally I would prefer we sign Ray to a long term contract. He has outplayed his contract as a fourth round pick and deserves to get paid.
    Then we can take a DT like Fairley or Liuget.

    I know we have a lot of defensive linemen on the roster but up to half of them aren't very good.
    No front 4 pressure = No defense = Little chance to win games with a rookie QB.
    It is a strong defensive draft. I hope we take advantage of it.

    I'm not a Locker fan but would take Newton if he slid to 12. BTW, I don't think Carolina is going to take him, but Buffalo will.
    but as the article points out, every year there are 2 "elite" DEs that have been anything but. Gains Adams and Anderson were "can't miss prospects"

  10. #10
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    Re: Why I am Against Taking a DE In the 1st Round.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094418
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1094415
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094391
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14972008/draft-preview-des-fraught-with-round-1-peril

    As the article points out. Recently, 1st round DEs have mostly been bust. Or not worth of their first round picks. Drafting any position will have it's ups and downs but people who say go DE because QB is risky are crazy.
    Seems this years draft has quite a few good DE's. Yes it's a risky pick at the top of the board but there are 4 of them that appear to be worthy of a top to mid first round pick.
    If Ray isn't going to be signed (I believe they have a pretty good idea about that already), we need pressure from our front 4 to make the back end of the defense work. I feel it would be worth the gamble.

    Personally I would prefer we sign Ray to a long term contract. He has outplayed his contract as a fourth round pick and deserves to get paid.
    Then we can take a DT like Fairley or Liuget.

    I know we have a lot of defensive linemen on the roster but up to half of them aren't very good.
    No front 4 pressure = No defense = Little chance to win games with a rookie QB.
    It is a strong defensive draft. I hope we take advantage of it.

    I'm not a Locker fan but would take Newton if he slid to 12. BTW, I don't think Carolina is going to take him, but Buffalo will.
    but as the article points out, every year there are 2 "elite" DEs that have been anything but. Gains Adams and Anderson were "can't miss prospects"
    I would much rather have a pocket collapsing defensive tackle.
    But that's just me.
    I expect the Vikings to take their QB of the future at 12.
    Good thing I'm not their GM.

    I wonder if Spielman has taken any first round DE's before?
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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