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  1. #31
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:What should we expect out of Madieu Williams????

    marshallvike wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    I have a big question mark at the Safety position. IMO, they seem to disappear in most games. We see the CB's, we seeteh LB's, but the Safties are seldom a big part of ehplay - or so it seems.


    But the TRUTH is that Willaims was 4th in team tackles, and Johnson was 6th. Obviously they ARE involved...they just aren't standing out as much.

    Another part of the problem is that we don'thave any ball hawks - not at CB or Safty. There aren't any "Sexy" grab-your-attention plays to highlight their play.

    Maybe it's scheme, or maybe it's ability. I don't know. But my personal feeling is that the Secondary is our defensive weakness.

    In the end, I feel Williams does a good job, but I'd like to see more from him.

    Caine
    Its the scheme I tell ya, its the scheme.

    Our defense clicks when everyone does thier job, especially when our DL is doing it with just the front 4.

    Let that group slip just a bit and everyone behind them looks silly.

    On a side note, if we tried to put any of our Secondary on a team that played manup/press defense, they would all fail as they aren't those type of cats.

    Put a cat like that in our scheme and his production will drop off as well (ala Sharpukerboy).
    sharpukerboy has been our best safety in literally a decade.

    Even in the cover 2
    I liked sharper with our team as well.
    he's just no joey browner

    no, but think of how few teams have stud safeties as opposed to serviceable or even just flat out bad ones? Methinks our standards are a bit high and were quite spoiled. Sharper put together some pretty decent years here, even in the cover 2. We just want elite numbers, which even the best can't do every year.

  2. #32
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:What should we expect out of Madieu Williams????

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    marshallvike wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    I have a big question mark at the Safety position. IMO, they seem to disappear in most games. We see the CB's, we seeteh LB's, but the Safties are seldom a big part of ehplay - or so it seems.


    But the TRUTH is that Willaims was 4th in team tackles, and Johnson was 6th. Obviously they ARE involved...they just aren't standing out as much.

    Another part of the problem is that we don'thave any ball hawks - not at CB or Safty. There aren't any "Sexy" grab-your-attention plays to highlight their play.

    Maybe it's scheme, or maybe it's ability. I don't know. But my personal feeling is that the Secondary is our defensive weakness.

    In the end, I feel Williams does a good job, but I'd like to see more from him.

    Caine
    Its the scheme I tell ya, its the scheme.

    Our defense clicks when everyone does thier job, especially when our DL is doing it with just the front 4.

    Let that group slip just a bit and everyone behind them looks silly.

    On a side note, if we tried to put any of our Secondary on a team that played manup/press defense, they would all fail as they aren't those type of cats.

    Put a cat like that in our scheme and his production will drop off as well (ala Sharpukerboy).
    sharpukerboy has been our best safety in literally a decade.

    Even in the cover 2
    I liked sharper with our team as well.
    he's just no joey browner

    no, but think of how few teams have stud safeties as opposed to serviceable or even just flat out bad ones? Methinks our standards are a bit high and were quite spoiled. Sharper put together some pretty decent years here, even in the cover 2. We just want elite numbers, which even the best can't do every year.
    I agree, standards are very high and this scheme exposes the secondary more than others especially to teams with better QB/WR tandems. However, all is not lost, Chicago and Indianapolis have frequently had top 10 pass defenses running the Tampa 2. I even think we were a borderline top 10 pass defense as recently as 2008. (I have seen ratings that put us as high as 5th in "pass def efficiency" for 2008).

    It's hard to judge the ability of any player in this system when they play so conservatively. Those elite numbers are not likely to materialize.

    Last year the injury bug hit around the Baltimore game in the secondary. Prior to that our secondary seemed to be playing very well last year. And I have always thought that DBs will generally drop off more than other positions with injury.

    They seemed to get it back together by the end of the year and in the playoffs, so I have high hopes with the new talent that was brought in with Shepard and Cook if we have any luck (knock on wood) with the injury situation.

    Obviously, Winfield's injury was the biggest impact, but there was a ton of injuries that popped up mid year amongst the DBs, Madieu specifically had a Quadricep injury in wk 6. I have seen doctors comment that while athletes can come back and play very quickly after a quad injury, it sometimes still takes 10 to 12 weeks to fully recover. Not an excuse, just a curiosity.

    If we don't get bitten by the injury bug, and, the new players both play up to expectations, our Secondary should finish near or in the top 10 this year...but, until we have another "difference maker" like Winfield in the secondary I think we are at the mercy of the injury bug.
    None

  3. #33
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:What should we expect out of Madieu Williams????

    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    I have a big question mark at the Safety position. IMO, they seem to disappear in most games. We see the CB's, we seeteh LB's, but the Safties are seldom a big part of ehplay - or so it seems.


    But the TRUTH is that Willaims was 4th in team tackles, and Johnson was 6th. Obviously they ARE involved...they just aren't standing out as much.

    Another part of the problem is that we don'thave any ball hawks - not at CB or Safty. There aren't any "Sexy" grab-your-attention plays to highlight their play.

    Maybe it's scheme, or maybe it's ability. I don't know. But my personal feeling is that the Secondary is our defensive weakness.

    In the end, I feel Williams does a good job, but I'd like to see more from him.

    Caine
    Its the scheme I tell ya, its the scheme.

    Our defense clicks when everyone does thier job, especially when our DL is doing it with just the front 4.

    Let that group slip just a bit and everyone behind them looks silly.

    On a side note, if we tried to put any of our Secondary on a team that played manup/press defense, they would all fail as they aren't those type of cats.

    Put a cat like that in our scheme and his production will drop off as well (ala Sharpukerboy).
    Let me get this straight...it's the scheme, but no one would succeed in our scheme? Further, our guys wouldn't do well anywhere else?

    So, we have crappy players in a crappy scheme? Is that what you're saying?

    Caine
    In a nutshell yes.

  4. #34
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:What should we expect out of Madieu Williams????

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    marshallvike wrote:
    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    I have a big question mark at the Safety position. IMO, they seem to disappear in most games. We see the CB's, we seeteh LB's, but the Safties are seldom a big part of ehplay - or so it seems.


    But the TRUTH is that Willaims was 4th in team tackles, and Johnson was 6th. Obviously they ARE involved...they just aren't standing out as much.

    Another part of the problem is that we don'thave any ball hawks - not at CB or Safty. There aren't any "Sexy" grab-your-attention plays to highlight their play.

    Maybe it's scheme, or maybe it's ability. I don't know. But my personal feeling is that the Secondary is our defensive weakness.

    In the end, I feel Williams does a good job, but I'd like to see more from him.

    Caine
    Its the scheme I tell ya, its the scheme.

    Our defense clicks when everyone does thier job, especially when our DL is doing it with just the front 4.

    Let that group slip just a bit and everyone behind them looks silly.

    On a side note, if we tried to put any of our Secondary on a team that played manup/press defense, they would all fail as they aren't those type of cats.

    Put a cat like that in our scheme and his production will drop off as well (ala Sharpukerboy).
    sharpukerboy has been our best safety in literally a decade.

    Even in the cover 2
    I liked sharper with our team as well.
    he's just no joey browner

    no, but think of how few teams have stud safeties as opposed to serviceable or even just flat out bad ones? Methinks our standards are a bit high and were quite spoiled. Sharper put together some pretty decent years here, even in the cover 2. We just want elite numbers, which even the best can't do every year.
    I agree, standards are very high and this scheme exposes the secondary more than others especially to teams with better QB/WR tandems. However, all is not lost, Chicago and Indianapolis have frequently had top 10 pass defenses running the Tampa 2. I even think we were a borderline top 10 pass defense as recently as 2008. (I have seen ratings that put us as high as 5th in "pass def efficiency" for 2008).

    It's hard to judge the ability of any player in this system when they play so conservatively. Those elite numbers are not likely to materialize.

    Last year the injury bug hit around the Baltimore game in the secondary. Prior to that our secondary seemed to be playing very well last year. And I have always thought that DBs will generally drop off more than other positions with injury.

    They seemed to get it back together by the end of the year and in the playoffs, so I have high hopes with the new talent that was brought in with Shepard and Cook if we have any luck (knock on wood) with the injury situation.

    Obviously, Winfield's injury was the biggest impact, but there was a ton of injuries that popped up mid year amongst the DBs, Madieu specifically had a Quadricep injury in wk 6. I have seen doctors comment that while athletes can come back and play very quickly after a quad injury, it sometimes still takes 10 to 12 weeks to fully recover. Not an excuse, just a curiosity.

    If we don't get bitten by the injury bug, and, the new players both play up to expectations, our Secondary should finish near or in the top 10 this year...but, until we have another "difference maker" like Winfield in the secondary I think we are at the mercy of the injury bug.
    1: I don't really see Winfield as a cover guy - he's good in coverage, but he's not great. His strength is, as we all know, playing the run and open field tackling.

    2: I think the play of our secondary is predicated upon the play of our front 7. In games where our front 7 struggle, our secondary doesn't really bail us out. They certainly don't generate turnovers. I think that eithger the scheme itself is so limiting that it needs to be adjusted, or we need an overhaul of the secondary, and the front 7 have been masking it.

    3: I absolutely agree that injury plagued us last season. It really exposed how shallow we are in the secondary. Hopefully Sheppard and Cook will alleviate that somewhat.

    Caine

  5. #35
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:What should we expect out of Madieu Williams????

    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    I have a big question mark at the Safety position. IMO, they seem to disappear in most games. We see the CB's, we seeteh LB's, but the Safties are seldom a big part of ehplay - or so it seems.


    But the TRUTH is that Willaims was 4th in team tackles, and Johnson was 6th. Obviously they ARE involved...they just aren't standing out as much.

    Another part of the problem is that we don'thave any ball hawks - not at CB or Safty. There aren't any "Sexy" grab-your-attention plays to highlight their play.

    Maybe it's scheme, or maybe it's ability. I don't know. But my personal feeling is that the Secondary is our defensive weakness.

    In the end, I feel Williams does a good job, but I'd like to see more from him.

    Caine
    Its the scheme I tell ya, its the scheme.

    Our defense clicks when everyone does thier job, especially when our DL is doing it with just the front 4.

    Let that group slip just a bit and everyone behind them looks silly.

    On a side note, if we tried to put any of our Secondary on a team that played manup/press defense, they would all fail as they aren't those type of cats.

    Put a cat like that in our scheme and his production will drop off as well (ala Sharpukerboy).
    Let me get this straight...it's the scheme, but no one would succeed in our scheme? Further, our guys wouldn't do well anywhere else?

    So, we have crappy players in a crappy scheme? Is that what you're saying?

    Caine
    Nope, not what I said.

    I said our players fit the scheme and don't in any sort of fashion fit the scheme that all of you seem to pine for.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #36
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:What should we expect out of Madieu Williams????

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    I have a big question mark at the Safety position. IMO, they seem to disappear in most games. We see the CB's, we seeteh LB's, but the Safties are seldom a big part of ehplay - or so it seems.


    But the TRUTH is that Willaims was 4th in team tackles, and Johnson was 6th. Obviously they ARE involved...they just aren't standing out as much.

    Another part of the problem is that we don'thave any ball hawks - not at CB or Safty. There aren't any "Sexy" grab-your-attention plays to highlight their play.

    Maybe it's scheme, or maybe it's ability. I don't know. But my personal feeling is that the Secondary is our defensive weakness.

    In the end, I feel Williams does a good job, but I'd like to see more from him.

    Caine
    Its the scheme I tell ya, its the scheme.

    Our defense clicks when everyone does thier job, especially when our DL is doing it with just the front 4.

    Let that group slip just a bit and everyone behind them looks silly.

    On a side note, if we tried to put any of our Secondary on a team that played manup/press defense, they would all fail as they aren't those type of cats.

    Put a cat like that in our scheme and his production will drop off as well (ala Sharpukerboy).
    sharpukerboy has been our best safety in literally a decade.

    Even in the cover 2
    What? He sure didn't play like it. How come he didn't put up numbers like he did with the Aint's last year?

    Truth of the matter is, he didn't like the scheme because it didn't allow him to run around and take the risks that reward with INT's and couldn't wait to get out of the scheme and then throw it under the bus.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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