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  1. #11
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Why do so many fail to realize that our drafting stunk under McCombs, with little to no funding of an actual scouting department, but that we've actually done pretty well since Childress and Spielman took over (ie. the first draft with a full staff for a full year to prepare...)
    .......snip
    Excellent points My Sexy Little Pixie.
    I would also like to add another if I may.
    Another wild card in all of this is how well the HC and the VP of Player Personnel communicate with each other.


    If those two (Chiller articulating what type he needs/VP of Player Personnel doesn't understand) don't do thier jobs then the draft success will/would go down significantly.

    Sure, the budget hurt Scott in his endevours to find the right talent, but I don't think he had a clue what Tice wanted because of the poor communications between that staffs FO and Coaching staff.

    WTF has this guy got against Studwell and Co.
    ???
    I don't think he has anything against Scott.
    He actually (even though he leaves the thought up to you to decide) gives Scott props IMHO.
    Wait are you saying Childress has a say in the draft process?
    I thought it was only a person named Front Office and the medical staff.
    LOL, you crack me up.
    Of course he has a say.
    He, his coaches, Spielman and Spielmans scouts are all busy ranking players, doing mock draft scenario's etc etc all leading up to the draft that Spielman will run.

    ;D
    Do you have any evidence that Spielman runs the draft? I am not being an ass, I am curious.

  2. #12
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "mountainviking" wrote:
    Why do so many fail to realize that our drafting stunk under McCombs, with little to no funding of an actual scouting department, but that we've actually done pretty well since Childress and Spielman took over (ie. the first draft with a full staff for a full year to prepare...)
    .......snip
    Excellent points My Sexy Little Pixie.
    I would also like to add another if I may.
    Another wild card in all of this is how well the HC and the VP of Player Personnel communicate with each other.


    If those two (Chiller articulating what type he needs/VP of Player Personnel doesn't understand) don't do thier jobs then the draft success will/would go down significantly.

    Sure, the budget hurt Scott in his endevours to find the right talent, but I don't think he had a clue what Tice wanted because of the poor communications between that staffs FO and Coaching staff.

    WTF has this guy got against Studwell and Co.
    ???
    I don't think he has anything against Scott.
    He actually (even though he leaves the thought up to you to decide) gives Scott props IMHO.
    Wait are you saying Childress has a say in the draft process?
    I thought it was only a person named Front Office and the medical staff.
    LOL, you crack me up.
    Of course he has a say.
    He, his coaches, Spielman and Spielmans scouts are all busy ranking players, doing mock draft scenario's etc etc all leading up to the draft that Spielman will run.

    ;D
    Do you have any evidence that Spielman runs the draft? I am not being an jiggly butt, I am curious.
    Yes I do.
    Most of them are insider articles, however, I have posted numerous articles (others have as well) about how he does it.
    I'll see if I can dig a few of them up again.

    Point is, very few teams HC runs a draft.
    Most of them got fired this year.
    In a typical NFL organization, the GM runs the draft and can draft players the HC doesn't want.

    Were it gets sticky for us with respect to the Triad Thingamajib, even though we don't have a true GM/HC relationship, Rick as the VP of Players Personnel does run it, but he doesn't do it in a vacumn.


    As with the GM/HC relationship, the staff (coaches and FO's types) should have thier board set by now.
    They should be working the mock draft scenario's to see who will fall and who won't so that all Mr. Rick has to do is pick the highest cat when he comes up.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    There are 3 real good articles in VU that lay out his process, of course I can't pull them up, however, there is all kinds of stuff out there that talk about him, how he does business, and how he, the Chiller and Bryzcheapski get it done.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2075011

    As was the case with his first draft, Saban likes to involve his coaches in the scouting and evaluation process, and might be seeking a personnel man who is capable of making solid recommendations to him, but who would not have as much clout as Spielman possessed.
    He actually had a pretty lame record at Miami, however, I believe he was let loose not because he made bad decisions, but because he had the power to make those decisions over the HC.


    Saban, didn't want that.

    In the end, proof is in the pudding.
    HC's that try to be GM's and HC's at the same time fail.

    http://www.winonadailynews.com/artic.../vikings18.txt
    Spielman declined to say which positions he feels are the strongest in this draft because his staff had not finished evaluating every position. But he did acknowledge that the Vikings already have eliminated a handful of players from consideration because of undisclosed issues.
    Meaning scouts, medical, PR etc.

    “My job is to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team, (players) who are not only going to represent us on the field but off the field as well,” Spielman said. “As you know, there are always going to be issues here and there, but we do our due diligence. Guys that do have a history, we take that extra step to make sure that we feel very comfortable.

    “There are already guys who are off our board and probably won’t even have the coaches do film (evaluation on) because I know we’re not going to waste their time with those players,” he added.
    Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...

    http://blogs.twincities.com/Vikings/...inate_pla.html

    “It comes down from ownership, and comes down from Brad, and what type of players he wants in the locker room. And that’s my job, to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team,” Spielman said. “There’s always going to be issues here and there that crop up. But we do our due diligence.”
    Again, the Coaches say what they need and the VP and his scouts go find the right guys to fit the need.




    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/13137825/
    The Triad Thingamajib ensures that one guys doesn't make the call.
    After the Foley fiasco, the owner will not settle all player selection disputes.

    Fortunately for the Vikings, Spielman will not have final say over personnel decision. That’s because he’s terrible at that.
    Him and Bryz get along together.

    Funny thing is that the Vikings never even picked up a line to call Bailey after the Foley mess. Instead, they went with Spielman, who happens to be close with Minnesota President Rob Brzezinski from their days together in Miami.
    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/teams/t....php?teamid=18

    http://www.vikingsgab.com/2007/10/28...in-2008-draft/

    min.scout.com/2/841332.html

    Lots more out there and several threads with additional links on here as well.
    Thing to remember and what is a bit confusing is the Triad relationship isn't quite the same as the traditional GM/HC relationship.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    ....Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...

    http://blogs.twincities.com/Vikings/...inate_pla.html

    “It comes down from ownership, and comes down from Brad, and what type of players he wants in the locker room. And that’s my job, to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team,” Spielman said. “There’s always going to be issues here and there that crop up. But we do our due diligence.”
    Again, the Coaches say what they need and the VP and his scouts go find the right guys to fit the need.
    That's what has been said numerous times on here.
    Marr, you have been minimizing the coaches role forever.
    The Spielmans, Studwells, Stefanskis, etc. of the world are there to support the HC.
    They rank the BPA based on the positions the HC wants filled.
    Sure, this is done through meetings, but, the HC has the final say on the positions that are targeted.
    The supporting staff justifies their draft ranks based on the system and the skill set that any potential draftees possess.
    It really isn't that complicated.

    ...

    Nice links and fun read overall.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  5. #15
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    Quarterback remains a concern and there are some other problem areas, like right tackle. But this is a team that went 10-6 last year. Its defence is emerging into a fearsome unit. It's got Adrian Peterson and if Sage Rosenfels can somehow avoid the interception bug, he should beat out Tarvaris Jackson for the starting QB job and the passing game will be much improved.

    If the Vikings can pick up an impact player or two in April's draft, this team should be better than it was in 2008 – even though it couldn't land Houshmandzadeh and Weaver.

    It's dangerous to drink too much purple koolaid. But there are plenty of reasons to feel good about this team heading into 2009.
    AMEN BROTHER!
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #16
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    ....Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...

    http://blogs.twincities.com/Vikings/...inate_pla.html

    “It comes down from ownership, and comes down from Brad, and what type of players he wants in the locker room. And that’s my job, to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team,” Spielman said. “There’s always going to be issues here and there that crop up. But we do our due diligence.”
    Again, the Coaches say what they need and the VP and his scouts go find the right guys to fit the need.
    That's what has been said numerous times on here.
    Marr, you have been minimizing the coaches role forever.
    The Spielmans, Studwells, Stefanskis, etc. of the world are there to support the HC.
    They rank the BPA based on the positions the HC wants filled.
    Sure, this is done through meetings, but, the HC has the final say on the positions that are targeted.
    The supporting staff justifies their draft ranks based on the system and the skill set that any potential draftees possess.
    It really isn't that complicated.

    ...

    Nice links and fun read overall.
    I agree with Prophet 100%. The coach tells him what to focus on. Spielman gives him a report. The coaching staff makes the pick.

  7. #17
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    ....Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...

    http://blogs.twincities.com/Vikings/...inate_pla.html

    “It comes down from ownership, and comes down from Brad, and what type of players he wants in the locker room. And that’s my job, to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team,” Spielman said. “There’s always going to be issues here and there that crop up. But we do our due diligence.”
    Again, the Coaches say what they need and the VP and his scouts go find the right guys to fit the need.
    That's what has been said numerous times on here.
    Marr, you have been minimizing the coaches role forever.
    The Spielmans, Studwells, Stefanskis, etc. of the world are there to support the HC.
    They rank the BPA based on the positions the HC wants filled.
    Sure, this is done through meetings, but, the HC has the final say on the positions that are targeted.
    The supporting staff justifies their draft ranks based on the system and the skill set that any potential draftees possess.
    It really isn't that complicated.

    ...

    Nice links and fun read overall.
    I agree with Prophet 100%. The coach tells him what to focus on. Spielman gives him a report. The coaching staff makes the pick.
    yeah i agree with this also, it gets frustrating bc it's been said and written many times that that's the process... but ultimately Childress makes the decision based on what info he has... and it's not like he doens't watch film on these guys...

    but for/when childress to be running the team, and given that he hired Spielman, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for spielman to have final say over the roster esp, when he's coaching the team and knows what he wants... in fact if he tells Spielman what he wants, it becomes blatantly obvious that if it came down to two ppl, it will be childress making the decision..

  8. #18
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "marstc09" wrote:
    Alphonso Smith (CB): The mock drafts I've read say he's projected to be an immediate starter.
    Make our D feared. The offense is what is is.
    our defense is good... but the offense has to get better.. or we'll have more games like philly no matter how good the defense is..

  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    ....Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...

    http://blogs.twincities.com/Vikings/...inate_pla.html

    “It comes down from ownership, and comes down from Brad, and what type of players he wants in the locker room. And that’s my job, to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team,” Spielman said. “There’s always going to be issues here and there that crop up. But we do our due diligence.”
    Again, the Coaches say what they need and the VP and his scouts go find the right guys to fit the need.
    That's what has been said numerous times on here.
    Marr, you have been minimizing the coaches role forever.
    I don't think I have been minimizing his role at all.
    Infact, in this Triadthingamajib I say that he has more of a say than a traditional GM/HC relationship.

    The Spielmans, Studwells, Stefanskis, etc. of the world are there to support the HC.
    They rank the BPA based on the positions the HC wants filled.
    Sure, this is done through meetings, but, the HC has the final say on the positions that are targeted.
    The supporting staff justifies their draft ranks based on the system and the skill set that any potential draftees possess.
    It really isn't that complicated.

    ...
    Sounds exactly like what I just said........

    ....Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...
    Again, people need to really pay attention to what I am saying.
    I have never once said the Chiller doesn't have a say.
    I only say that he doesn't do it all alone as some contend.....

    Nice links and fun read overall.
    Thanks.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: A voice of reason

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    ....Most people don't believe that the scouts and not the coaches actually spend time during the season and actually whittle down the players that they believe the coaches will like.
    The coaches then spend thier time looking at film and visiting with the candidates the FO pukes think will fill the need.

    Those are then ranked according to Spielmans 22 flags...

    http://blogs.twincities.com/Vikings/...inate_pla.html

    “It comes down from ownership, and comes down from Brad, and what type of players he wants in the locker room. And that’s my job, to make sure I understand what type of people we want on this football team,” Spielman said. “There’s always going to be issues here and there that crop up. But we do our due diligence.”
    Again, the Coaches say what they need and the VP and his scouts go find the right guys to fit the need.
    That's what has been said numerous times on here.
    Marr, you have been minimizing the coaches role forever.
    The Spielmans, Studwells, Stefanskis, etc. of the world are there to support the HC.
    They rank the BPA based on the positions the HC wants filled.
    Sure, this is done through meetings, but, the HC has the final say on the positions that are targeted.
    The supporting staff justifies their draft ranks based on the system and the skill set that any potential draftees possess.
    It really isn't that complicated.

    ...

    Nice links and fun read overall.
    I agree with Prophet 100%. The coach tells him what to focus on. Spielman gives him a report. The coaching staff makes the pick.
    But that isn't correct my friend.

    The VP of Player Personnel actually sends in the pick based on who is available and who they (the entire staff) have ranked at that spot.

    For the life of me I can't understand why you guys believe the HC and not the VP runs the draft.
    Tell me another team were the coach runs it.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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