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  1. #41
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096230
    In the end they want a guy who CAN play like the 2009 Brett
    I doubt Ponder can play like the 2009 Brett, but it would be nice. 2009 was one of the best, if not the best, seasons of Favre's 20 year career. Problem with 2009 Favre, is you get 2010 Favre with it.

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  2. #42
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096391
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1096330
    Childress must have rubbed off on you!
    You crack me up. :laugh:

    Why not bring in someone besides scrubs to compete. If Ponder wins the job, fine. If not he sits and learns for a year or two.
    That strategy gets you the best team you can have instead of always looking for never weres or never will be type players.

    I think the better vets would not be afraid of the competition and Ponder will improve for the experience.
    Ponder is the long term future. We should have him for many years if he is the franchise.

    Bringing in a douche bag in a so called fake QB competition would be detrimental to Ponders development.

    Bring in someone with talent and let the chips fall where they may.
    The why has nothing to do with what is the best option.

    My point in all of this has a direct correlation to the number of vets that need to be resigned on this team. At somepoint the Ownership Group is gonna say, the checkbook is locked/empty.

    If getting a top tier vet in here who could start, meant we couldn't resign Rice (insert Chad, AD, EJ, etc), then I would say go with the young kid and sign a lesser value vet.
    It is a certainty that we didn't want Kolb or we wouldn't have picked Ponder. If Frazier is truthfully looking for a guy to compete for the starting job he will be restricted to bargains, if any are out there worth picking up.

    Like I said earlier, the choice of a veteran would be predicated on several issues, one being whether a rookie salary cap is instituted.

    Some money will be freed up with favre retiring, but we do need to sign some guys to long term contracts.
    Due to the labor uncertainty, almost every other team is faced with the same issue.

    So yes finance is an issue.

    The question for me would be, does Frazier want someone who can compete with and guide Ponder ? Or does he want a fake competition by bringing in a clipboard holder ala. Childress?

    If it's the latter, I would prefer he say he is going to bring in a veteran to back up Ponder and potentially start if needed.

    BTW, I still think we might be able to get McNabb for one year at a somewhat,reasonable salary after he's
    released. Not what you want to hear but I suspect Leslie and staff are giving it some consideration.

    EDIT
    Purple Floyd wrote:
    On the PA show on KFAN this AM PA stated he talked to people in the vikins FO and there is zero chance they bring in McNabb.

    Well so much for my theory!

    I believe it and concur.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  3. #43
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Open voting poll

    http://www.startribune.com/polls/121383684.html?mr=1&oid=1&pid=121383684&vote.x=19& cid=8500397&vote.y=7

    Polls Question

    How much do the Vikings need a veteran quarterback?

    Results# of votes % of votes
    It's essential 123 32%
    It's a good idea 144 38%
    Not very much 68 18%
    Not at all 39 10%

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  4. #44
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096405
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096230
    In the end they want a guy who CAN play like the 2009 Brett
    I doubt Ponder can play like the 2009 Brett, but it would be nice. 2009 was one of the best, if not the best, seasons of Favre's 20 year career. Problem with 2009 Favre, is you get 2010 Favre with it.
    You pulled one sentence out of the thread and took it out of context.

    The point started by Marty saying some of us wouldn't want Ponder to come in and do well because it would somehow diminish what Brett did when he was here which on it's face is laughable. But my response was that they do want someone to come in and play like that if possible as opposed to what they were subjected to under Jackson and the other endless rotation of sucky QB's Childress provided for us.

    I don't know how anyone could argue with that.

  5. #45
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Confidence boost for a young QB is to beat out the best QB he can for the job. The better QB you have here the more he is going to learn and be pushed.

    We drafted Ponder in the first round and we don't have a Brett Favre for him to play behind like Rodgers had in Green Bay. We are taking the risk of him being Alex Smith by letting him play right away, but that is a chance we may have to take.

    I don't care how it happens, I just want to watch some football this season.

    I don't care if Ponder turns into crap if a Rich Gannon (seasoned vet) situation would rear its head. Has to be an open competition or you run the risk of these young kids feeling entitled to get the spot they were drafted to play........

    I think our view are slightly tainted having had TJack here, the guy was never talented enough (hind sight makes this easier to see) to be a starting QB in the NFL. The organization screwed the pooch following the HC on this one. Athletic is not a skill set that a QB HAS to possess to be successful in the NFL, need to have mental ability and mental toughness to play the QB position.

    I am ready for some football!

  6. #46
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1096337
    The biggest problem here is the veteran. If you bring in a vet that has a legit shot to start, he is going to want to start. McNabb won't want to compete, Hasselbeck won't want to compete, Gradkowski likely will not want to compete, Bulger likely will not want to "compete" with a rook.

    You have to bring in a backup. If he is lights out and Ponder isn't, which is very possible, then it is a compete spot. But you can't bring someone in to "compete" who feels they have the talent to start (or else they just go somewhere else) ... veterans want to know their role coming in.
    An excellent post my friend.

    Again, I'm good with the "Competition" aspect. Who wouldn't want a "Quality" vet in here.

    The problem I have is at what cost and how will that cost impact signing other FA's (especially ones already on the team).
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  7. #47
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    [quote="i_bleed_purple" #1096404]
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1096403
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096213
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1096195
    Long story short, I still think Bomar is the guy that could help "Teach" him the "Nuances" of being a pro. He is still under contract, and most importantly, knows how the Vikes organization runs.
    LOL! Marr, your totally losing it.

    1. Bomar hasn't taken a single snap or thrown a ball against a regular season opponent ever in his NFL career. What is he going to teach him? How to hold a clipboard?

    He was previously waived by the Giants, then re-signed to their practice squad where he remained. The Vikings then signed Bomar off the Giants practice squad.

    1. What nuances of being a pro does he know?

    2. Bomar knows very, very little if anything about how the Vikings organization runs. He was first signed to the Vikings PRACTICE squad on Dec. 23, 2010. 10 days before the end of the season. How much do you think he learned or wanted to learn in less than 10 day?

    Bomar is not, I repeat not, a good veteran presence for Ponder to learn from.

    Again, I doubt & would be highly surprised if the Vikings trade for a QB & waste future draft picks if they think Ponder is close to being ready.

    Again, watch for them to sign one off the FA pool that will compete for the starting job this year & won't mind if that role happens to be as backup this year.
    Marty believes the Vikings are the "test track" of the NFL.

    If you suck, or are unproven, come to the Vikings! We'll give you five years of uncontested playing time. if you're good, we won't bother re-signing you, and you'll be free to explore other options!

    practice squad player! You want a shot at teaching a rook? Here you go. Crap safeties we draft, we won't pressure you to play well. Tahi! Have at it, even though you bring nothing to the table. Everyone is welcome here. (Unless you were at any point a Packer, the GTFO!)
    You guys crack me up.

    Seriously, what is the Vet gonna teach him? How to throw the ball? How to read the defense?

    The guy, is going to teach him how to study tape/how to prepare.

    I guess the guys on Sirius said it the best.......

    Monday and Tues, the position coaches are in with the Coordinators and the HC going over the gameplan for the upcoming game. That leaves the guys (in this case QB's) in their respective film rooms going over tape. Coaches love to have a Vet in the rooms to keep things professional.

    Anyone of the cats, Bomar included, that I listed as interesting, have enough time in the NFL were they know exactly how to study tape/prepare.

    Again, even though bleed believes it, the other players aren't teaching each other crap that happens on the field. The vets, atleast the ones who could still be considered starters, aren't there to teach the young kids how to take their jobs. That is what the COACHES do.

    A vet, who is a career backup, is a perfect fit for what we need. Unless of course you really still believe that Ponder is going to sit behind a vet for this year.

    Again, that is just not gonna happen.

    a. He is very familiar with the scheme. Heck he even said he knows alot of the verbiage. He just needs to figure a some of the stuff he didn't know.

    b. He knows all the line checks. They are the same as what they ran if FL.

    c. He knows all the sub packages that go with the plays.

    d. He figured that out, just like the coaching staff figured out how fast a study he was, during the private 2 day visit and his time there shortly after he was drafted.

    e. He will link with Percy to get the rest of the stuff he doesn't know cause the Vikes weren't sure and didn't give him a playbook.

    I found that last one kindof interesting in that if PH knows all the stuff young Ponder needs to know, then PH learned it from someplace. My guess, its what he learned prior to Musgrove and another indicator that the scheme isn't going to change that much so it shouldn't take the team (who will be the supporting cast) to get on board.
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  8. #48
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096810

    Anyone of the cats, Bomar included, that I listed as interesting, have enough time in the NFL were they know exactly how to study tape/prepare.
    You crack me up. That's like saying I can enlist the help of a first year Undergrad student to help me with my fourth year studies. Sure, maybe he'll pipe up every now and then with his common sense ideas, but he's hardly someone to take seriously.

    A vet, who is a career backup, is a perfect fit for what we need. Unless of course you really still believe that Ponder is going to sit behind a vet for this year.
    Bomar isn't a career backup. He's a career practice squad player. Frerrotte was a career backup. VOlek is a career backup. the McCown's are career backups. Bomar is training camp fodder. Volek/McCown/Frerotte have something to say that might be worth listening to. BOmar hasn't done enough to convince ANY coach to give him even one chance (for comparison's sake, TJ got about a million chances)
    Again, that is just not gonna happen.
    What, BOmar contributing anything to this team? You're absolutely correct

    a. He is very familiar with the scheme.
    LMAO! Very? He knows the scheme, maybe. Does he even know the playbook? HE was a Viking for a few weeks, then offseason, then lockout. I've gotta wonder how much he actually knows.
    Heck he even said he knows alot of the verbiage.
    Ok, I can figure out some of the verbage, The Verbage probably isn't a huge thing to deal with, it's learning the scheme, the reads, the checks, the progressions, etc. The Verbage comes with practice and study. I don't think Ponder will have an issue learning the Verbage

    b. He knows all the line checks. They are the same as what they ran if FL.

    c. He knows all the sub packages that go with the plays.
    Are you talking about Ponder? And if so, why do you believe we run the exact same thing they ran in College?

    d. He figured that out, just like the coaching staff figured out how fast a study he was, during the private 2 day visit and his time there shortly after he was drafted.
    well shit then, why have a backup at all? If this kid is already Peyton Manning, he's not gonna need anyone else.

    e. He will link with Percy to get the rest of the stuff he doesn't know cause the Vikes weren't sure and didn't give him a playbook.
    Ah, but last I heard, the Vikings have been sitting around diddling their twats because nobody wants to step up and host a practice.

  9. #49
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1096813
    You crack me up. That's like saying I can enlist the help of a first year Undergrad student to help me with my fourth year studies. Sure, maybe he'll pipe up every now and then with his common sense ideas, but he's hardly someone to take seriously.
    But you don't need him to help you with the material, just how to study the material.

    Again, its a process, film study. Not a process of teaching him the scheme. Thats the coaches job.

    Quick question, who helps him when the coach sends tape (disc) home with him to study on his own?

    Bomar isn't a career backup. He's a career practice squad player. Frerrotte was a career backup. VOlek is a career backup. the McCown's are career backups. Bomar is training camp fodder. Volek/McCown/Frerotte have something to say that might be worth listening to. BOmar hasn't done enough to convince ANY coach to give him even one chance (for comparison's sake, TJ got about a million chances)
    I'm not sure how we got fixated on Bomar. There were several in that degree I thought were good choices as well.

    I suppose you discount all of those cats as well. Again, because you are looking for someone to challenge him as a starter.

    I don't think that is what the staff is looking for. They are looking for someone to teach him how to prepare for games.


    Ok, I can figure out some of the verbage, The Verbage probably isn't a huge thing to deal with, it's learning the scheme, the reads, the checks, the progressions, etc. The Verbage comes with practice and study. I don't think Ponder will have an issue learning the Verbage

    b. He knows all the line checks. They are the same as what they ran if FL.

    c. He knows all the sub packages that go with the plays.
    Are you talking about Ponder? And if so, why do you believe we run the exact same thing they ran in College?
    Because I've heard Leslie, Musgrove, and Ponder all say so over the last 2 weeks.

    d. He figured that out, just like the coaching staff figured out how fast a study he was, during the private 2 day visit and his time there shortly after he was drafted.
    well shit then, why have a backup at all? If this kid is already Peyton Manning, he's not gonna need anyone else.
    Finally, the light has come on. Well, except for him being the next Peyton. Even Peyton struggled my friend. So will Ponder.

    The discussion at hand is how much of the struggle will it be and is the staff willing to accept that when you factor in how much it will cost to bring someone in that will be able to actually compete with him as the starter.

    Ah, but last I heard, the Vikings have been sitting around diddling their twats because nobody wants to step up and host a practice.
    Doesn't mean he and PH aren't talking. Again, lots of stuff out there on him and PH getting togehter. Nothing about throwing/working out, mostly cause I don't think his agent will let him risk getting hurt without a contract, but I am sure they have been on the phone, been out to lunch, met at somepoint.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1096842
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1096813
    You crack me up. That's like saying I can enlist the help of a first year Undergrad student to help me with my fourth year studies. Sure, maybe he'll pipe up every now and then with his common sense ideas, but he's hardly someone to take seriously.
    But you don't need him to help you with the material, just how to study the material.

    Again, its a process, film study. Not a process of teaching him the scheme. Thats the coaches job.

    Quick question, who helps him when the coach sends tape (disc) home with him to study on his own?
    Again, your whole point revolves around yoru belief that the Backup does his thing, and the starter does his own thing, which simply is not the case. I think the opposite of what you think, in the film room, it's mostly one on one, Coach and all the QB's will sit and watch film, and coach will talk about matchups, adjustmetns, etc, not the other QB's. THey will ask/answer questions, but Q&A is directed at the coach.

    On the sideline, the starter and backup constantly talk about what happened, what coudl have gone differently.

    Care to explain why the backup usually wears a headset? It's not because he wants to feel important.

    Bomar isn't a career backup. He's a career practice squad player. Frerrotte was a career backup. VOlek is a career backup. the McCown's are career backups. Bomar is training camp fodder. Volek/McCown/Frerotte have something to say that might be worth listening to. BOmar hasn't done enough to convince ANY coach to give him even one chance (for comparison's sake, TJ got about a million chances)
    I'm not sure how we got fixated on Bomar. There were several in that degree I thought were good choices as well.
    Hmm... how? Becaue you keep bringing him up as a viable option, which he is not.
    I suppose you discount all of those cats as well. Again, because you are looking for someone to challenge him as a starter.
    I think Volek is capable of starting af ew games. I think he's always been in a position where there is a very good QB ahead of him, McNair, Vince Young, Rivers. He's content with playing backup role, but has the arm and smarts to be successful filling in, that's why they keep him around. He's what you'd call a great backup. Just like Frerotte was. Not a guy you'd build around, but has beena round long enough, and is smart enough to play the game well.

    I don't think that is what the staff is looking for. They are looking for someone to teach him how to prepare for games.
    Ok, and Bomar is that guy? Don't think the guy has EVER prepared for a game he would be starting. Vikings need a guy who is capable of playing, not just guiding.
    Because I've heard Leslie, Musgrove, and Ponder all say so over the last 2 weeks.
    Strange, I've heard CHilly keep telling us TJ was ready to play. I've heard alot of things. Wanna know how many of them I believe?
    d. He figured that out, just like the coaching staff figured out how fast a study he was, during the private 2 day visit and his time there shortly after he was drafted.
    well shit then, why have a backup at all? If this kid is already Peyton Manning, he's not gonna need anyone else.
    Finally, the light has come on. Well, except for him being the next Peyton. Even Peyton struggled my friend. So will Ponder.
    Yeah, and Manning was the top prospect, possibly ever at QB He is the best QB in the game. if "Even Peyton" struggled, imagine what a guy who is maybe the 30th best player in the draft will do.
    The discussion at hand is how much of the struggle will it be and is the staff willing to accept that when you factor in how much it will cost to bring someone in that will be able to actually compete with him as the starter.
    The discussiont hey should be having is, do we send him out there to struggle, or do we get a stop-gap player to play well for us, then hand over the reigns to a Ponder who hopefully will be ready to play at a high level. You can't answer that, neither can I.
    Ah, but last I heard, the Vikings have been sitting around diddling their twats because nobody wants to step up and host a practice.
    Doesn't mean he and PH aren't talking. Again, lots of stuff out there on him and PH getting togehter. Nothing about throwing/working out, mostly cause I don't think his agent will let him risk getting hurt without a contract, but I am sure they have been on the phone, been out to lunch, met at somepoint.
    Ok, so they can talk all they want, but last I checked football isn't played over the phone. This isn't risk, you don't roll dice and pick the winner. They NEED to work out together. Delaying this delays Ponder's progression as a player.

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