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  1. #181
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098503
    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1098502
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098474
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098471
    So you think that TJ was given extra special treatment and only kept around because of the HC?
    Yes.

    Why would you now think that young Ponder isn't going to be treated in the same light then?
    Because that coach is no longer here and the new one hopefully doesn't roll that way. But only time will tell. It might get better, it might get worse.

    TJ wasn't drafted with the 12th pick and was payed basically crap for his time here. Ponder will probably get more in his signing bonus that TJ did out of his whole contract.
    Means nothing in the context of the discussion.

    Face it my friends, young Ponder is the future and will start this year. Any vet that is brought in will be nothing more than a guy who can help him study film.
    He will start this year if he has the right stuff. Hopefully you aren't attempting to tie Ponder starting with what went on with Jackson for 5 seasons.

    Nothing more, nothing less. Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that young Webb is etched in stone as the number 2 right behind Ponder.
    Possible. OTOH if Webb outplays Ponder for a few years and still doesn't start over him then we will not have gained anything since firing Childress and the team will be set back even more years. Hopefully we can all agree that that would not be a good thing.
    PF you have some valid points. but if you think high draft pick QB's don't get preferential treatment when it comes to starting in the NFL, then I would have to say you haven't payed attention in the last ten years. That is the way of the league.
    I am not sure that I ever tried to make that argument. If you look at what I was talking about first it had to do with TJ, who was not a high draft pick and secondly it was about him being given the job without an honest competition. To that point I do not see it as the way of the league or the way of any successful franchises.
    I misunderstood then. I was reacting to this

    Why would you now think that young Ponder isn't going to be treated in the same light then?
    Because that coach is no longer here and the new one hopefully doesn't roll that way. But only time will tell. It might get better, it might get worse.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  2. #182
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1098507
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098503
    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1098502
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098474
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098471
    So you think that TJ was given extra special treatment and only kept around because of the HC?
    Yes.

    Why would you now think that young Ponder isn't going to be treated in the same light then?
    Because that coach is no longer here and the new one hopefully doesn't roll that way. But only time will tell. It might get better, it might get worse.

    TJ wasn't drafted with the 12th pick and was payed basically crap for his time here. Ponder will probably get more in his signing bonus that TJ did out of his whole contract.
    Means nothing in the context of the discussion.

    Face it my friends, young Ponder is the future and will start this year. Any vet that is brought in will be nothing more than a guy who can help him study film.
    He will start this year if he has the right stuff. Hopefully you aren't attempting to tie Ponder starting with what went on with Jackson for 5 seasons.

    Nothing more, nothing less. Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that young Webb is etched in stone as the number 2 right behind Ponder.
    Possible. OTOH if Webb outplays Ponder for a few years and still doesn't start over him then we will not have gained anything since firing Childress and the team will be set back even more years. Hopefully we can all agree that that would not be a good thing.
    PF you have some valid points. but if you think high draft pick QB's don't get preferential treatment when it comes to starting in the NFL, then I would have to say you haven't payed attention in the last ten years. That is the way of the league.
    I am not sure that I ever tried to make that argument. If you look at what I was talking about first it had to do with TJ, who was not a high draft pick and secondly it was about him being given the job without an honest competition. To that point I do not see it as the way of the league or the way of any successful franchises.
    I misunderstood then. I was reacting to this

    Why would you now think that young Ponder isn't going to be treated in the same light then?
    Because that coach is no longer here and the new one hopefully doesn't roll that way. But only time will tell. It might get better, it might get worse.
    Then you need to define 'Treated in the same light" a bit more thoroughly. In the context of the discussion my comment was about the 5 year TJ experiment. While I do think they will try to give Ponder a shot to succeed and sooner than later, I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.

  3. #183
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098518
    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1098507
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098503
    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1098502
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098474
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098471
    So you think that TJ was given extra special treatment and only kept around because of the HC?
    Yes.

    Why would you now think that young Ponder isn't going to be treated in the same light then?
    Because that coach is no longer here and the new one hopefully doesn't roll that way. But only time will tell. It might get better, it might get worse.

    TJ wasn't drafted with the 12th pick and was payed basically crap for his time here. Ponder will probably get more in his signing bonus that TJ did out of his whole contract.
    Means nothing in the context of the discussion.

    Face it my friends, young Ponder is the future and will start this year. Any vet that is brought in will be nothing more than a guy who can help him study film.
    He will start this year if he has the right stuff. Hopefully you aren't attempting to tie Ponder starting with what went on with Jackson for 5 seasons.

    Nothing more, nothing less. Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that young Webb is etched in stone as the number 2 right behind Ponder.
    Possible. OTOH if Webb outplays Ponder for a few years and still doesn't start over him then we will not have gained anything since firing Childress and the team will be set back even more years. Hopefully we can all agree that that would not be a good thing.
    PF you have some valid points. but if you think high draft pick QB's don't get preferential treatment when it comes to starting in the NFL, then I would have to say you haven't payed attention in the last ten years. That is the way of the league.
    I am not sure that I ever tried to make that argument. If you look at what I was talking about first it had to do with TJ, who was not a high draft pick and secondly it was about him being given the job without an honest competition. To that point I do not see it as the way of the league or the way of any successful franchises.
    I misunderstood then. I was reacting to this

    Why would you now think that young Ponder isn't going to be treated in the same light then?
    Because that coach is no longer here and the new one hopefully doesn't roll that way. But only time will tell. It might get better, it might get worse.
    Then you need to define 'Treated in the same light" a bit more thoroughly. In the context of the discussion my comment was about the 5 year TJ experiment. While I do think they will try to give Ponder a shot to succeed and sooner than later, I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.
    Gotcha now. Sometimes it takes a little while.

    My personal belief is most rookies benefit from bench time.High rookie salaries, coupled with free agency have handcuffed teams from doing that now. If they do decide to go with him sooner, I hope they stick with the plan. I would hate to see the yo-yo starter again. Neither the team or TJ's developement benefitted from that.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  4. #184
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098518
    I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.
    It appears he already has for the most part.

    Frazier plans on/wants to start Ponder day 1, with what appears to be zero veteran competition, other than Webb (2 NFL starts) & the Bomar brain who has taken 0 NFL game snaps in his illustrious 2 year career.

    That's elevating him pretty highly IMO, especially since Frazier has yet to see him take one snap in a Vikings uniform.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #185
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098592
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098518
    I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.
    It appears he already has for the most part.

    Frazier plans on/wants to start Ponder day 1, with what appears to be zero veteran competition, other than Webb (2 NFL starts) & the Bomar brain who has taken 0 NFL game snaps in his illustrious 2 year career.

    That's elevating him pretty highly IMO, especially since Frazier has yet to see him take one snap in a Vikings uniform.
    To be fair, you're not going to hear anything different during the lockout.

    Teams are banned from talking to free agents, they can't work out trades. What's Fraizer supposed to do, spend 3 months saying "Ponder is our future, but he ain't startin this year" He has not said anything one way or another about who will be playing. He seems to have taken a very neutural approach. Before the lockout there was talk about him wanting a vet. Now, all that has been published is pure speculation.

    I can't judge Fraizers handling of the QB spot based on 3 months during a lockout.

  6. #186
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098592
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098518
    I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.
    It appears he already has for the most part.

    Frazier plans on/wants to start Ponder day 1, with what appears to be zero veteran competition, other than Webb (2 NFL starts) & the Bomar brain who has taken 0 NFL game snaps in his illustrious 2 year career.

    That's elevating him pretty highly IMO, especially since Frazier has yet to see him take one snap in a Vikings uniform.
    Yeah but I doubt he is enough of a dumbass to stand by him for half a decade without looking at bringing in anyone else if he isn't progressing.
    The problem with Chiller/TJ was not that he went with him in year 2, it was that he failed to see that he was not progressing in years 3,4 and 5 and to go after a better one. If Frazier follows the same path I will have the same opinion of him as I had of Chilly.

  7. #187
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098610
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098592
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098518
    I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.
    It appears he already has for the most part.

    Frazier plans on/wants to start Ponder day 1, with what appears to be zero veteran competition, other than Webb (2 NFL starts) & the Bomar brain who has taken 0 NFL game snaps in his illustrious 2 year career.

    That's elevating him pretty highly IMO, especially since Frazier has yet to see him take one snap in a Vikings uniform.
    Yeah but I doubt he is enough of a dumbass to stand by him for half a decade without looking at bringing in anyone else if he isn't progressing.
    The problem with Chiller/TJ was not that he went with him in year 2, it was that he failed to see that he was not progressing in years 3,4 and 5 and to go after a better one. If Frazier follows the same path I will have the same opinion of him as I had of Chilly.

    And exactly how was he supposed to see that he wasn't progressing the remainder of year 3 & years 4 & 5 if he wasn't starting the majority of the time?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #188
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    Re: Vikings want veteran to compete w/ Ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098625
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098610
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098592
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098518
    I do not believe they will treat him like Childress did with TJ where he is elevated above what his performance indicates he deserves. But, as I clearly said in the final line time will tell and it might be better but there is always the possibility it will be worse. Time will tell.
    It appears he already has for the most part.

    Frazier plans on/wants to start Ponder day 1, with what appears to be zero veteran competition, other than Webb (2 NFL starts) & the Bomar brain who has taken 0 NFL game snaps in his illustrious 2 year career.

    That's elevating him pretty highly IMO, especially since Frazier has yet to see him take one snap in a Vikings uniform.
    Yeah but I doubt he is enough of a dumbass to stand by him for half a decade without looking at bringing in anyone else if he isn't progressing.
    The problem with Chiller/TJ was not that he went with him in year 2, it was that he failed to see that he was not progressing in years 3,4 and 5 and to go after a better one. If Frazier follows the same path I will have the same opinion of him as I had of Chilly.
    And exactly how was he supposed to see that he wasn't progressing the remainder of year 3 & years 4 & 5 if he wasn't starting the majority of the time?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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