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  1. #21
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    Green over-emphasized the O.
    The D suffered.

    Tice took over and had to spend all his efforts, and little of McCheaps money, on rebuilding the D.
    The O was neglected, especially the OL, which Tice tried to cut-n-paste together with his wisdom regarding teaching and training bargain basement OL to become starters; e.g. Liwienski, Birk.

    Childress took over, and now has to rebuild the O that was neglected by Tice while he rebuilt the D.
    The only long-term solution is to rebuild with youth so that one unit or another doesn't need to be drastically rebuilt when aging players decline in performance.
    Ongoing rebuilding will be done with youth, mostly through the draft, and not by overpaying for vets.


    It makes sense.
    It may work.
    Stay tuned.
    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  2. #22
    Ddawg84's Avatar
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "mnjamie" wrote:
    "Ddawg84" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    "Ddawg84" wrote:


    * This article really did make me feel better, I think the Vikings organization is doing the right thing with this football team.
    And if we have contributions from the 07 draft class, like there were from the 06 rookies, I am pretty optimistic about the future!
    Would you expect anything other then a feel good story to come out of Vikings.com?
    I do think the organization is playing it smart by laying low this FA season and purging the team of remnants of bad regimes.
    I don't understand how people can attack last years draft when it seemed to turn out so good even though many of the players were "reaches".
    But to make it sound like these players played last year because of their skill when it might be more likely because of weaknesses on the team is propaganda.
    I agree... but after hearing all the Bitching that has been done on this site lately about not bringing in F.A. just for the sake of signing people.
    It is nice to see to see a writer from the vikings website address the issue and put a spin on it that hopefully will make some of the constant critics feel a little better about the situation we are currently in.
    Just because we don't have Kevin Curtis, Joe Horn, Donte Stallworth, Kearny, Graham, and god knows whom else inked for next season as a viking, is not an indicator of how good or how bad our team will be this upcoming season!

    If you have obvious holes on a team, do not fill them in the offseason, what does that leave??

    The same holes the next year, not to mention more to fill.
    K.Curtis, Kearny, Stallworth all would have filled holes so we were not drafting for NEED, instead drafting for BPA when we drafted.
    It's a reactionary attitude that causes this team to consistently be behind the eight ball in terms of talent.
    Focus on the "D", the "O" lags behind and vise versa ...
    Speilman and Chilli were brought in to get the job done, be it with high priced f/a's or diamonds in the rough to develop. You wait for the draft and it's a crap shoot that is no better than 50/50 that a player will develop in to a contributing player, more less a pro-bowler.
    I know what your saying... and for the most part I agree with you, but signing players past their prime or with attitude problems, or drug problems what have you, just because we have THAT NEED to fill a hole is just as much of a crap shoot.
    You have a lot better chance of being successful drafting a young guy that you hand selected and can fit in your system and mold him, than a stingy veteran.
    It has worked in the past, signing free agents to come in and be immediate impacts, and it has also worked drafting rookies to be immediate impacts.
    So don't you think if we have not signed those F.A. that for some reason certain people think we desperately need; that the organization feels they are not those same immediate impact F.A. that they brought in during previous seasons, for whatever reason that may be!
    No wait... this just in, Chilly and Spielman are not bringing in (key) FA because they just wanna see how much they can piss us off, or how bad they can make the Vikings this upcoming season.
    :

  3. #23
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "mnjamie" wrote:
    If you have obvious holes on a team, do not fill them in the offseason, what does that leave??

    The same holes the next year, not to mention more to fill.
    K.Curtis, Kearny, Stallworth all would have filled holes so we were not drafting for NEED, instead drafting for BPA when we drafted.
    It's a reactionary attitude that causes this team to consistently be behind the eight ball in terms of talent.
    Focus on the "D", the "O" lags behind and vise versa ...
    Speilman and Chilli were brought in to get the job done, be it with high priced f/a's or diamonds in the rough to develop. You wait for the draft and it's a crap shoot that is no better than 50/50 that a player will develop in to a contributing player, more less a pro-bowler.
    I respectfully disagree.

    We are focusing on both D and O last year and this.
    Hell, we actually focused more on D than O in last year's draft, so your argument about the Defense not getting any younger while our O catches up is completely false.

    I think going after any big name you see in FA to fill holes is more reactionary than addressing those needs through a building process.
    If you pick an older veteran to fill a hole. the odds are that the same hole will just open up again in a few years.

    I can't help but look at teams like New England who have done it the same way we are now for years.
    They have become an annual force in their division, and I don't see them falling off any time soon.
    Even back in Minnesota's haydays in 98-2000 we were still beatable at any given point because our defense sucked so bad.
    I am looking forward to a solid Vikings team once again.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #24
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Personally, after seeing some of the salaries the second tier FA's are getting I am not surprised that the Vikes are laying low. We need to have money to pay for our draft choices and if we spend like drunken sailors that money won't be available.
    I am all for building through the draft and that's why I'm a firm believer that the Vikes should trade down in this year draft with the depth of WR available. Anytime you can pick up an extra draft pick in the second round or even a low first round take it.
    I agree that the most feasible option is to trade down (since trading up to get the ONLY player I would trade UP for, Calvin Johnson, is likely to cost us alot and is probably not gonna happen) BUT we still have to find a suitable trade partner who wants to trade UP...we all assume that there is one, but there is no guarantee that we will be able to find a team that will want to trade up to #7.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  5. #25
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    If you have obvious holes on a team, do not fill them in the offseason, what does that leave??

    The same holes the next year, not to mention more to fill.
    K.Curtis, Kearny, Stallworth all would have filled holes so we were not drafting for NEED, instead drafting for BPA when we drafted.

    It's a reactionary attitude that causes this team to consistently be behind the eight ball in terms of talent.
    Focus on the "D", the "O" lags behind and vise versa ...
    Speilman and Chilli were brought in to get the job done, be it with high priced f/a's or diamonds in the rough to develop. You wait for the draft and it's a crap shoot that is no better than 50/50 that a player will develop in to a contributing player, more less a pro-bowler.
    I respectfully disagree.

    We are focusing on both D and O last year and this.
    Hell, we actually focused more on D than O in last year's draft, so your argument about the Defense not getting any younger while our O catches up is completely false.

    I think going after any big name you see in FA to fill holes is more reactionary than addressing those needs through a building process.
    If you pick an older veteran to fill a hole. the odds are that the same hole will just open up again in a few years.

    I can't help but look at teams like New England who have done it the same way we are now for years.
    They have become an annual force in their division, and I don't see them falling off any time soon.
    Even back in Minnesota's haydays in 98-2000 we were still beatable at any given point because our defense sucked so bad.
    I am looking forward to a solid Vikings team once again.
    OF COURSE, this year New England did the exact opposite...it's not about whether building through the draft or buying free agents is better...it's about which option is better for a given team at that particular time.
    In our case, the drawback of building via the draft is that our older veterans might retire before we get good, thereby wasting the vast amounts of money that we gave them to entice them to stay.
    It's a huge balancing act...and could be upset at any time...I just want the Vikings to make some GOOD decisions for a change!!!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  6. #26
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "COJOMAY" wrote:
    Personally, after seeing some of the salaries the second tier FA's are getting I am not surprised that the Vikes are laying low. We need to have money to pay for our draft choices and if we spend like drunken sailors that money won't be available.
    I am all for building through the draft and that's why I'm a firm believer that the Vikes should trade down in this year draft with the depth of WR available. Anytime you can pick up an extra draft pick in the second round or even a low first round take it.
    I agree that the most feasible option is to trade down (since trading up to get the ONLY player I would trade UP for, Calvin Johnson, is likely to cost us alot and is probably not gonna happen) BUT we still have to find a suitable trade partner who wants to trade UP...we all assume that there is one, but there is no guarantee that we will be able to find a team that will want to trade up to #7.
    Very true.
    I agree that the best option is to trade down for more picks.
    But if there isn't a team in th 10-15 range offering us a decent value for the number 7 pick, then
    there are still some players that should be available who would warrant a number 7 pick.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #27
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    If you have obvious holes on a team, do not fill them in the offseason, what does that leave??

    The same holes the next year, not to mention more to fill.
    K.Curtis, Kearny, Stallworth all would have filled holes so we were not drafting for NEED, instead drafting for BPA when we drafted.
    It's a reactionary attitude that causes this team to consistently be behind the eight ball in terms of talent.
    Focus on the "D", the "O" lags behind and vise versa ...
    Speilman and Chilli were brought in to get the job done, be it with high priced f/a's or diamonds in the rough to develop. You wait for the draft and it's a crap shoot that is no better than 50/50 that a player will develop in to a contributing player, more less a pro-bowler.
    I respectfully disagree.

    We are focusing on both D and O last year and this.
    Hell, we actually focused more on D than O in last year's draft, so your argument about the Defense not getting any younger while our O catches up is completely false.

    I think going after any big name you see in FA to fill holes is more reactionary than addressing those needs through a building process.
    If you pick an older veteran to fill a hole. the odds are that the same hole will just open up again in a few years.

    I can't help but look at teams like New England who have done it the same way we are now for years.
    They have become an annual force in their division, and I don't see them falling off any time soon.
    Even back in Minnesota's haydays in 98-2000 we were still beatable at any given point because our defense sucked so bad.
    I am looking forward to a solid Vikings team once again.
    Well put!
    Exactly how I feel and was saying in previous posts!

  8. #28
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    ... I am looking forward to a solid Vikings team once again.
    That's exactly how I see it.
    The flash in the pants superhero big play BS without a solid team is pathetic.
    Unfortunately, the NFL rules make it so the game gets further and further away from the old-school smash-mouth football that I grew up loving.
    I'm still for a solid team that goes out and gets the job done.
    I'm seeing that beginning of that process happening with Childress et al. and I hope it works.
    A force to be reckoned with.

    Before the retards come down on me for being a blind homer think before you post.
    This has been said probably a hundred times or more on this board, but the team isn't as bad off as people like to fantasize about.
    Historically teams that control the clock with a ground game and stop the run are teams to be reckoned with.
    Both of those objectives have been met.
    Now fill in some holes and get the QB/receiving corps involved more and minimize the exorbitant amount of penalites and the Vikings are on their way.
    Six, count 'em, six of the losses last year were by one fucking score.
    There is nothing that I said in this paragraph that isn't a cold, hard fact.

    Pull your heads out of your asses and smell a fresh breeze.
    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  9. #29
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    ... I am looking forward to a solid Vikings team once again.
    That's exactly how I see it.
    The flash in the pants superhero big play BS without a solid team is pathetic.
    Unfortunately, the NFL rules make it so the game gets further and further away from the old-school smash-mouth football that I grew up loving.
    I'm still for a solid team that goes out and gets the job done.
    I'm seeing that beginning of that process happening with Childress et al. and I hope it works.
    A force to be reckoned with.

    Before the Challenged Hillybilly Lovers come down on me for being a blind homer think before you post.
    This has been said probably a hundred times or more on this board, but the team isn't as bad off as people like to fantasize about.
    Historically teams that control the clock with a ground game and stop the run are teams to be reckoned with.
    Both of those objectives have been met.
    Now fill in some holes and get the QB/receiving corps involved more and minimize the exorbitant amount of penalites and the Vikings are on their way.
    Six, count 'em, six of the losses last year were by one fricken score.
    There is nothing that I said in this paragraph that isn't a cold, hard fact.

    Pull your heads out of your dimply buttocks and smell a fresh breeze.
    Who farted???
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  10. #30
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    Re: Vikings look to youth, Draft to bulid!

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    ... I am looking forward to a solid Vikings team once again.
    That's exactly how I see it.
    The flash in the pants superhero big play BS without a solid team is pathetic.
    Unfortunately, the NFL rules make it so the game gets further and further away from the old-school smash-mouth football that I grew up loving.
    I'm still for a solid team that goes out and gets the job done.
    I'm seeing that beginning of that process happening with Childress et al. and I hope it works.
    A force to be reckoned with.

    Before the Challenged Hillybilly Lovers come down on me for being a blind homer think before you post.
    This has been said probably a hundred times or more on this board, but the team isn't as bad off as people like to fantasize about.
    Historically teams that control the clock with a ground game and stop the run are teams to be reckoned with.
    Both of those objectives have been met.
    Now fill in some holes and get the QB/receiving corps involved more and minimize the exorbitant amount of penalites and the Vikings are on their way.
    Six, count 'em, six of the losses last year were by one fricken score.
    There is nothing that I said in this paragraph that isn't a cold, hard fact.

    Pull your heads out of your dimply buttocks and smell a fresh breeze.
    The team may not be that far off from moving into playoff land (you can say that about most of the teams in the NFL).
    They could also easily slide further down from last season.
    The only way to judge the Vikings this year is to let the season play out, however, in the meantime its hard to feel real confident in the upcoming season without some of the holes you mentioned getting filled.
    So far, there has been no progress.
    It is early, the FA is weak, the competition to sign FA's is strong.
    Which leaves to trades and drafts.
    I'll wait and see how it plays out, but identifying people to fill those holes is looking pretty dim right now.

    I for one would welcome a seasoned accomplished WR like Joe Horn (who would be extremely foolish to come to MN).
    Even if he comes at a high price and it is for a short term.
    I don't see this offense evolving at all if there aren't some stud skill players on it.
    TJ needs someone he can count on and I doubt it will be a rookie if he is going to have any success.

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