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  1. #101
    Johnson14's Avatar
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    Re:Vikings' Longwell not happy sharing kicking duties

    Longwell's short kick-off's are infuriating and undoubtedly an area we needed improvement.

  2. #102
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Vikings' Longwell not happy sharing kicking duties

    Caine wrote:
    IMO, Longwell is only part of the problem. Yes, I hate his short kicks - always have - but I think the greater problem is the lack of tackling that occurs on the return itself.

    In most cases, I see 3-4 Viking helmets closing in on the ball carrier - usually between the 15-20 yard lines - and if they fail to bring him down, it's a LOOOOOONG return. And most of the failure lies in poor tackling technique.

    I always cringe when the kick off unit takes the field, because I've seen them put us in the hole too many times. So, from where I sit, if we can sign a guy who will put it deep in the end zone more often than not, and will prevent a return - which prevents those back breaking TD returns - I'm all for it.

    As for Longwell...well....throw some grass in the air like everyone else, and quit crying. Just like Jackson, if you'd done it well enough, we wouldn't have had to bring someone else in.

    Caine

    Wow, two things we agree on! :P

    Gotta agree, Lloyd projects out to about 35 TBs with the extra opportunities and games inside a dome, compared to Longwell's 5 TBs last year. Its like adding a ST tackler that gets the tackle at the 20 every time! That's 30 "pseudo" tackles at the 20!

    Our return coverage team made great strides last year, but, were still an average unit, this is a real smart move.

    Longwell just needs to draw on his Veteran experience and deal with the situation.
    None

  3. #103
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Vikings' Longwell not happy sharing kicking duties

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    IMO, Longwell is only part of the problem. Yes, I hate his short kicks - always have - but I think the greater problem is the lack of tackling that occurs on the return itself.

    In most cases, I see 3-4 Viking helmets closing in on the ball carrier - usually between the 15-20 yard lines - and if they fail to bring him down, it's a LOOOOOONG return. And most of the failure lies in poor tackling technique.

    I always cringe when the kick off unit takes the field, because I've seen them put us in the hole too many times. So, from where I sit, if we can sign a guy who will put it deep in the end zone more often than not, and will prevent a return - which prevents those back breaking TD returns - I'm all for it.

    As for Longwell...well....throw some grass in the air like everyone else, and quit crying. Just like Jackson, if you'd done it well enough, we wouldn't have had to bring someone else in.

    Caine

    Wow, two things we agree on! :P

    Gotta agree, Lloyd projects out to about 35 TBs with the extra opportunities and games inside a dome, compared to Longwell's 5 TBs last year. Its like adding a ST tackler that gets the tackle at the 20 every time! That's 30 "pseudo" tackles at the 20!

    Our return coverage team made great strides last year, but, were still an average unit, this is a real smart move.

    Longwell just needs to draw on his Veteran experience and deal with the situation.
    As much as I love to dispute "pseudo stats", even if that projection is cut in half it still registers as a significant improvement to our kick off unit. I'd love an additional 15 opportunities NOT to have the opponent start on their 40 or better...or NOT to score a TD on a huge return.

    Caine

  4. #104
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Vikings' Longwell not happy sharing kicking duties

    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    IMO, Longwell is only part of the problem. Yes, I hate his short kicks - always have - but I think the greater problem is the lack of tackling that occurs on the return itself.

    In most cases, I see 3-4 Viking helmets closing in on the ball carrier - usually between the 15-20 yard lines - and if they fail to bring him down, it's a LOOOOOONG return. And most of the failure lies in poor tackling technique.

    I always cringe when the kick off unit takes the field, because I've seen them put us in the hole too many times. So, from where I sit, if we can sign a guy who will put it deep in the end zone more often than not, and will prevent a return - which prevents those back breaking TD returns - I'm all for it.

    As for Longwell...well....throw some grass in the air like everyone else, and quit crying. Just like Jackson, if you'd done it well enough, we wouldn't have had to bring someone else in.

    Caine

    Wow, two things we agree on! :P

    Gotta agree, Lloyd projects out to about 35 TBs with the extra opportunities and games inside a dome, compared to Longwell's 5 TBs last year. Its like adding a ST tackler that gets the tackle at the 20 every time! That's 30 "pseudo" tackles at the 20!

    Our return coverage team made great strides last year, but, were still an average unit, this is a real smart move.

    Longwell just needs to draw on his Veteran experience and deal with the situation.
    As much as I love to dispute "pseudo stats", even if that projection is cut in half it still registers as a significant improvement to our kick off unit. I'd love an additional 15 opportunities NOT to have the opponent start on their 40 or better...or NOT to score a TD on a huge return.

    Caine
    Pretty straight forward estimate (big plus by KO in dome and huge increase with more opportunities to kick-off with higher scoring offense as well), only caveat would be the quality of gunners in Carolina vs our guys.

    Dante Wesley was Lloyd's gunner in Carolina (signed with Lions this year) and he is known as a "Gunner only" player. But, while the quality of gunner makes a huge difference on Punts, am not sure how much that matters on kickoffs.

    That mid 30 number should be pretty close.
    None

  5. #105
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Vikings' Longwell not happy sharing kicking duties

    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    IMO, Longwell is only part of the problem. Yes, I hate his short kicks - always have - but I think the greater problem is the lack of tackling that occurs on the return itself.

    In most cases, I see 3-4 Viking helmets closing in on the ball carrier - usually between the 15-20 yard lines - and if they fail to bring him down, it's a LOOOOOONG return. And most of the failure lies in poor tackling technique.

    I always cringe when the kick off unit takes the field, because I've seen them put us in the hole too many times. So, from where I sit, if we can sign a guy who will put it deep in the end zone more often than not, and will prevent a return - which prevents those back breaking TD returns - I'm all for it.

    As for Longwell...well....throw some grass in the air like everyone else, and quit crying. Just like Jackson, if you'd done it well enough, we wouldn't have had to bring someone else in.

    Caine

    Wow, two things we agree on! :P

    Gotta agree, Lloyd projects out to about 35 TBs with the extra opportunities and games inside a dome, compared to Longwell's 5 TBs last year. Its like adding a ST tackler that gets the tackle at the 20 every time! That's 30 "pseudo" tackles at the 20!

    Our return coverage team made great strides last year, but, were still an average unit, this is a real smart move.

    Longwell just needs to draw on his Veteran experience and deal with the situation.
    As much as I love to dispute "pseudo stats", even if that projection is cut in half it still registers as a significant improvement to our kick off unit. I'd love an additional 15 opportunities NOT to have the opponent start on their 40 or better...or NOT to score a TD on a huge return.

    Caine
    Pretty straight forward estimate (big plus by KO in dome and huge increase with more opportunities to kick-off with higher scoring offense as well), only caveat would be the quality of gunners in Carolina vs our guys.

    Dante Wesley was Lloyd's gunner in Carolina (signed with Lions this year) and he is known as a "Gunner only" player. But, while the quality of gunner makes a huge difference on Punts, am not sure how much that matters on kickoffs.

    That mid 30 number should be pretty close.
    None

  6. #106
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    Re:Vikings' Longwell not happy sharing kicking duties

    Marrdro wrote:
    V4L wrote:
    JerBearLuvsDaVikes wrote:
    Actually the opponents average starting spot against the Vikings was like the 28 yard line if I remember correct. Only 8 yards more, but that's 10% less field (72yards/80yards = .9 which is 90% instead of 100%) and it also gives them the "chance" to return the ball, whereas a kick into the endzone is rarely taken out. This to me, will have a much greater impact on the team than a WR that catches 1 or 2 passes all year aka Jaymar Johnson, or a different position player that will likely not see much if any playing time all year.

    See that seems really bad.. You would think we would be ranked near the bottom of the league in average opponent starting postion.. But we were good for 7th best actually

    Our kick return coverage did phenomenal last year.. Allowing just 22 yards per kick return

    Im not totally against LLoyd.. I just don't think this is as big of an issue as others seem to think

    We did alot of corner kicking last year.. And we covered it well.. I didn't really see the system as broken

    Although Lloyd does boot the ball into the endzone 30 percent of the time.. That does seem real nice.. I just don't see the need as much as others
    I know that I would have rather had Lloyd kicking off during the Aints game than I would ole Noodle Leg.
    Yeah cause that would of made a huge difference.

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