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  1. #11
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Dec 1969
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    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    I think Denny and Tice drafted fine.
    As we all know drafting is a crap shoot.
    As Singer pointed out EJ and Williams.
    What about Denny drafting Moss?


    I think the more important question regarding the drafts are:
    Were the players tought how to play well?
    How was the discipline?
    There are many factors to consider as to why draft choices do and don't work out.
    Most of the time a player is drafted becasue of their skills and how they are expected to play in the NFL.
    How it ends up is a different story.

  2. #12
    BloodyHorns82's Avatar
    BloodyHorns82 is offline Jersey Retired Feed The Frog Champion
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    Jun 2006
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    9,691

    Re: Giving The Vikings Some Well-Deserved Praise

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I agree. I never thought we would break the bank in FA. I thought this team would never learn. Im not happy with BB for 6 - 42 million but hopefully some of the last year is impractical and voidable( seems to be the trend now adays.
    It is a lot of money to spend, especially knowing he likely isnt worth that much, but...
    He gives us an instant upgrade at the WR position and a proven target for our young struggling QB.
    I am happy in whole with the signing.

  3. #13
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Dec 1969
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    Re: Giving The Vikings Some Well-Deserved Praise

    "BloodyHorns82" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    I agree. I never thought we would break the bank in FA. I thought this team would never learn. Im not happy with BB for 6 - 42 million but hopefully some of the last year is impractical and voidable( seems to be the trend now adays.
    It is a lot of money to spend, especially knowing he likely isnt worth that much, but...
    He gives us an instant upgrade at the WR position and a proven target for our young struggling QB.
    I am happy in whole with the signing.
    I think we all have to remember that this money is not coming out of our pockets.
    I'm sure the team evaluates players and will pay them accordingly.
    It's like real estate.
    Yuo have to go with what the market is at that time.
    You may overpay or underpay.
    The fact is I think we all know Bryz isn't going to agree to terms where it will hurt the football team.
    They have a cap and chances are they wil not be over the cap.


    If the teams thinks they need to pay a certain person a certain amount of money that is their choice.
    Again, I don't think they will pay nayone something that will come back and kill the team.
    It may or not work out but again, that's the market right now.

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Dec 1969
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    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "ejmat" wrote:
    I think Denny and Tice drafted fine.
    As we all know drafting is a crap shoot.
    As Singer pointed out EJ and Williams.
    What about Denny drafting Moss?


    I think the more important question regarding the drafts are:
    Were the players tought how to play well?
    How was the discipline?
    There are many factors to consider as to why draft choices do and don't work out.
    Most of the time a player is drafted becasue of their skills and how they are expected to play in the NFL.
    How it ends up is a different story.
    I disagree.

    I don't think it is that big of a crap shoot.

    Take a look at the Vikes as they sit today.
    They had 15 openings going into FA.
    They will probably sign 4-8 Vets (a few from other teams and a few of thier own).

    If a front office and thier scouting staff can't find 7 quallity players that can fill those other vacancies then they should be released by the owner.

    Face it, the truth of the matter is that for 5 years (I liked how the staff drafted before McCombs took over) this organization (not Tice) screwed the pooch when it came to drafting.
    Hell I don't think they got it right a third of the time.


    Again, that is why our team was going no were fast after the "Outstanding" 9-7 season you all keep
    reminding us of.

    Really, I am being serious here.
    Can you guys sit there and tell me that we picked good.
    How many of the "Gone" Players are still even in the NFL?

    Take your purple glasses off.
    The previous regime sucked at drafting and you can't give the excuse that it is a crap shoot cause it doesn't wash with me.

    Again, watch how this staff drafts.
    They will draft players that will fill actual roster spots and they will get them when they should actually be taken (unlike how Foley did in 2006 draft were he took some sooner than expected).

    2005
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Troy Williamson South Carolina
    (Gone. I suppose it was the coaches fault)
    1 Erasmus James Wisconsin
    (Can't stay on the field)
    2 Marcus Johnson Mississippi
    (Solid backup)
    3 Dustin Fox Ohio State
    (Gone)
    4 Ciatrick Fason Florida
    (Gone)
    6 C.J. Mosley Missouri
    (Gone)
    7 Adrian Ward Texas-El Paso
    (Gone)


    2004
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kenechi Udeze USC
    (I like this guy, some don't)
    2 Dontarrious Thomas Auburn (Solid pick)
    3 Darrion Scott Ohio State
    (Who knows.
    Still a piece of shit if you ask me)
    4 Nat Dorsey Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    4 Mewelde Moore Tulane
    (Decent pick)
    5 Rod Davis Southern Mississippi
    (Gone)
    6 Deandre' Eiland South Carolina
    (Gone)
    7 Jeff Dugan Maryland
    (Solid pick, great value)


    2003
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kevin Williams Oklahoma State
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 E.J. Henderson Maryland
    (Excellent Pick)
    3 Nate Burleson Nevada-Reno
    (Solid Pick)
    4 Onterrio Smith Oregon
    (Gone. Probably would have been a good one if his head was on straight)
    6 Eddie Johnson Idaho State
    (Gone)
    6 Michael Nattiel Florida
    (Gone)
    7 Keenan Howry Oregon
    (Gone)


    2002
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Bryant McKinnie Miami (FL)
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 Raonall Smith Washington State
    (Gone)
    3 Willie Offord South Carolina
    (Gone)
    4 Brian Williams North Carolina State
    (Decent Pick)
    4 Edward Ta'amu Utah
    (Gone)
    6 Nick Rogers Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    7 Chad Beasley Virginia Tech
    (Gone)


    2001
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Michael Bennett Wisconsin
    (Good pick)
    2 Willie Howard Stanford
    (Gone)
    3 Eric Kelly Kentucky
    (Gone)
    4 Shawn Worthen Texas Christian (Gone)
    4 Cedric James Texas Christian
    (Gone)
    5 Patrick Chukwurah Wyoming
    (Gone)
    6 Carey Scott Kentucky State
    (Gone)
    7 Brian Crawford Western Oregon (Gone, I actually liked this pick at the time)


    http://www.databasefootball.com/draf...?tm=MIN&lg=nfl
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Dec 1969
    Posts
    8,849

    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    I think Denny and Tice drafted fine.
    As we all know drafting is a crap shoot.
    As Singer pointed out EJ and Williams.
    What about Denny drafting Moss?


    I think the more important question regarding the drafts are:
    Were the players tought how to play well?
    How was the discipline?
    There are many factors to consider as to why draft choices do and don't work out.
    Most of the time a player is drafted becasue of their skills and how they are expected to play in the NFL.
    How it ends up is a different story.
    I disagree.

    I don't think it is that big of a crap shoot.

    Take a look at the Vikes as they sit today.
    They had 15 openings going into FA.
    They will probably sign 4-8 Vets (a few from other teams and a few of thier own).

    If a front office and thier scouting staff can't find 7 quallity players that can fill those other vacancies then they should be released by the owner.

    Face it, the truth of the matter is that for 5 years (I liked how the staff drafted before McCombs took over) this organization (not Tice) screwed the pooch when it came to drafting.
    Hell I don't think they got it right a third of the time.


    Again, that is why our team was going no were fast after the "Outstanding" 9-7 season you all keep
    reminding us of.

    Really, I am being serious here.
    Can you guys sit there and tell me that we picked good.
    How many of the "Gone" Players are still even in the NFL?

    Take your purple glasses off.
    The previous regime sucked at drafting and you can't give the excuse that it is a crap shoot cause it doesn't wash with me.

    Again, watch how this staff drafts.
    They will draft players that will fill actual roster spots and they will get them when they should actually be taken (unlike how Foley did in 2006 draft were he took some sooner than expected).

    2005
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Troy Williamson South Carolina
    (Gone. I suppose it was the coaches fault)
    1 Erasmus James Wisconsin
    (Can't stay on the field)
    2 Marcus Johnson Mississippi
    (Solid backup)
    3 Dustin Fox Ohio State
    (Gone)
    4 Ciatrick Fason Florida
    (Gone)
    6 C.J. Mosley Missouri
    (Gone)
    7 Adrian Ward Texas-El Paso
    (Gone)


    2004
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kenechi Udeze USC
    (I like this guy, some don't)
    2 Dontarrious Thomas Auburn (Solid pick)
    3 Darrion Scott Ohio State
    (Who knows.
    Still a piece of shit if you ask me)
    4 Nat Dorsey Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    4 Mewelde Moore Tulane
    (Decent pick)
    5 Rod Davis Southern Mississippi
    (Gone)
    6 Deandre' Eiland South Carolina
    (Gone)
    7 Jeff Dugan Maryland
    (Solid pick, great value)


    2003
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kevin Williams Oklahoma State
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 E.J. Henderson Maryland
    (Excellent Pick)
    3 Nate Burleson Nevada-Reno
    (Solid Pick)
    4 Onterrio Smith Oregon
    (Gone. Probably would have been a good one if his head was on straight)
    6 Eddie Johnson Idaho State
    (Gone)
    6 Michael Nattiel Florida
    (Gone)
    7 Keenan Howry Oregon
    (Gone)


    2002
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Bryant McKinnie Miami (FL)
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 Raonall Smith Washington State
    (Gone)
    3 Willie Offord South Carolina
    (Gone)
    4 Brian Williams North Carolina State
    (Decent Pick)
    4 Edward Ta'amu Utah

    (Gone)
    6 Nick Rogers Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    7 Chad Beasley Virginia Tech
    (Gone)


    2001
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Michael Bennett Wisconsin
    (Good pick)
    2 Willie Howard Stanford
    (Gone)
    3 Eric Kelly Kentucky
    (Gone)
    4 Shawn Worthen Texas Christian (Gone)
    4 Cedric James Texas Christian
    (Gone)
    5 Patrick Chukwurah Wyoming
    (Gone)
    6 Carey Scott Kentucky State
    (Gone)
    7 Brian Crawford Western Oregon (Gone, I actually liked this pick at the time)


    http://www.databasefootball.com/draf...?tm=MIN&lg=nfl
    Marrdro the fact is you never know how someone will end up going from clooege to the NFL.
    There are many players on here that all had high potential that didn't pan out.
    For instance Randy Moss was a crap shoot becasue of his baggage.
    He turned out fine.
    Michael Bennett was a crap shoot that did okay but turned out to be a bust IMO.
    I can sit here and analyze each person for you but unfortunately I don't have the time to do that right now.
    But no matter how you slice it you do not know how a player will transition in the NFL.
    A lot of it has to do with what team drafts you, their current players and coaching staff.
    Since 2000 we haven't been a winning team.
    I think some of the players drafted had high potential.
    Some were gambles.
    It's done in every draft by every team.
    But you can't tell me the current players and coaches have nothing to do with it.
    You may not want to except the crap shoot excuse but EVERY one is.
    Look at players like Leaf and Couch that were supposed to be football's next Elway or Marino.
    I bet you if Couch had the coaches and players around him that Cleveland has now his career could have been different.
    Notice I say could have been becasue we'll never know.
    That is why everyone is a crap shoot.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Buffalo, MN
    Posts
    982

    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    I think Denny and Tice drafted fine.
    As we all know drafting is a crap shoot.
    As Singer pointed out EJ and Williams.
    What about Denny drafting Moss?


    I think the more important question regarding the drafts are:
    Were the players tought how to play well?
    How was the discipline?
    There are many factors to consider as to why draft choices do and don't work out.
    Most of the time a player is drafted becasue of their skills and how they are expected to play in the NFL.
    How it ends up is a different story.
    I disagree.

    I don't think it is that big of a crap shoot.

    Take a look at the Vikes as they sit today.
    They had 15 openings going into FA.
    They will probably sign 4-8 Vets (a few from other teams and a few of thier own).

    If a front office and thier scouting staff can't find 7 quallity players that can fill those other vacancies then they should be released by the owner.

    Face it, the truth of the matter is that for 5 years (I liked how the staff drafted before McCombs took over) this organization (not Tice) screwed the pooch when it came to drafting.
    Hell I don't think they got it right a third of the time.


    Again, that is why our team was going no were fast after the "Outstanding" 9-7 season you all keep
    reminding us of.

    Really, I am being serious here.
    Can you guys sit there and tell me that we picked good.
    How many of the "Gone" Players are still even in the NFL?

    Take your purple glasses off.
    The previous regime sucked at drafting and you can't give the excuse that it is a crap shoot cause it doesn't wash with me.

    Again, watch how this staff drafts.
    They will draft players that will fill actual roster spots and they will get them when they should actually be taken (unlike how Foley did in 2006 draft were he took some sooner than expected).

    2005
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Troy Williamson South Carolina
    (Gone. I suppose it was the coaches fault)
    1 Erasmus James Wisconsin
    (Can't stay on the field)
    2 Marcus Johnson Mississippi
    (Solid backup)
    3 Dustin Fox Ohio State
    (Gone)
    4 Ciatrick Fason Florida
    (Gone)
    6 C.J. Mosley Missouri
    (Gone)
    7 Adrian Ward Texas-El Paso
    (Gone)


    2004
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kenechi Udeze USC
    (I like this guy, some don't)
    2 Dontarrious Thomas Auburn (Solid pick)
    3 Darrion Scott Ohio State
    (Who knows.
    Still a piece of shit if you ask me)
    4 Nat Dorsey Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    4 Mewelde Moore Tulane
    (Decent pick)
    5 Rod Davis Southern Mississippi
    (Gone)
    6 Deandre' Eiland South Carolina
    (Gone)
    7 Jeff Dugan Maryland
    (Solid pick, great value)


    2003
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kevin Williams Oklahoma State
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 E.J. Henderson Maryland
    (Excellent Pick)
    3 Nate Burleson Nevada-Reno
    (Solid Pick)
    4 Onterrio Smith Oregon
    (Gone. Probably would have been a good one if his head was on straight)
    6 Eddie Johnson Idaho State
    (Gone)
    6 Michael Nattiel Florida
    (Gone)
    7 Keenan Howry Oregon
    (Gone)


    2002
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Bryant McKinnie Miami (FL)
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 Raonall Smith Washington State
    (Gone)
    3 Willie Offord South Carolina
    (Gone)
    4 Brian Williams North Carolina State
    (Decent Pick)
    4 Edward Ta'amu Utah

    (Gone)
    6 Nick Rogers Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    7 Chad Beasley Virginia Tech
    (Gone)


    2001
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Michael Bennett Wisconsin
    (Good pick)
    2 Willie Howard Stanford
    (Gone)
    3 Eric Kelly Kentucky
    (Gone)
    4 Shawn Worthen Texas Christian (Gone)
    4 Cedric James Texas Christian
    (Gone)
    5 Patrick Chukwurah Wyoming
    (Gone)
    6 Carey Scott Kentucky State
    (Gone)
    7 Brian Crawford Western Oregon (Gone, I actually liked this pick at the time)


    http://www.databasefootball.com/draf...?tm=MIN&lg=nfl
    Excellent post!
    I was going to do this, but you did a better job than I would have of layin' it all out.

    In the end, one or two good players out of a team's draft does not make it successful.

    A draft may look sexy the day after, but IMHO the only way to determine whether or not a draft is good or not is after the players have proven themselves after a few seasons.
    I do agree that you can't place 100% of the blame on the coach, but I don't know for sure who was calling the shots during the Denny/Tice years.


    I don't totally buy the "crap shoot" angle either because look at teams like the Patriots (love 'em or hate 'em) or the Colts - two teams that have drafted very well the past few years.
    The Pats were very active last year in FA, however.

    We may be jumping the gun a bit on declaring the '06 and '07 drafts a complete success, but most seem to be on the right track:

    2006
    1 Chad Greenway (Good pick, a starter.
    Played as well as you could expect a 2nd year rookie to play.)
    2 Cedric Griffin (Good pick, has some ups and downs, but a good player, and a starter.)
    2 Ryan Cook (Okay pick, drafted early, but has played generally well after being switched to OT, started)
    2 Tarvaris Jackson (Jury's still out, but has a chance to be good.
    Another starter.)
    4 Ray Edwards (Good pick, needs to keep his head straight, but a solid player.)
    5 Greg Blue (Gone - seemed like a good pick at the time, but is a liability in coverage, but would provide good depth.)

    2007
    1 Adrian Peterson (Need I say more?)
    2 Sidney Rice (Seems like a good pick, very young, shows a lot of promise.)
    3 Marcus McCauley (Solid pick, had some ups and downs like Griff, but overall, filled in well for Winfield.)
    4 Brian Robison (Another solid pick.
    Plenty of room to improve.)
    5 Aundrae Allison (Seems like a good KR, I'd like to see him on the field more though.)
    6 Rufus Alexander (Was on IR all last year, so I don't know much about him, I hear he's a beast)
    7 Tyler Thigpen (Gone - too bad he got away, but life goes on.)
    7 Chandler Williams (Ehh..Gone.)
    Proud member of PP.O since April 5th, 2003!

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,935

    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    I think Denny and Tice drafted fine.
    As we all know drafting is a crap shoot.
    As Singer pointed out EJ and Williams.
    What about Denny drafting Moss?


    I think the more important question regarding the drafts are:
    Were the players tought how to play well?
    How was the discipline?
    There are many factors to consider as to why draft choices do and don't work out.
    Most of the time a player is drafted becasue of their skills and how they are expected to play in the NFL.
    How it ends up is a different story.
    I disagree.

    I don't think it is that big of a crap shoot.

    Take a look at the Vikes as they sit today.
    They had 15 openings going into FA.
    They will probably sign 4-8 Vets (a few from other teams and a few of thier own).

    If a front office and thier scouting staff can't find 7 quallity players that can fill those other vacancies then they should be released by the owner.

    Face it, the truth of the matter is that for 5 years (I liked how the staff drafted before McCombs took over) this organization (not Tice) screwed the pooch when it came to drafting.
    Hell I don't think they got it right a third of the time.


    Again, that is why our team was going no were fast after the "Outstanding" 9-7 season you all keep
    reminding us of.

    Really, I am being serious here.
    Can you guys sit there and tell me that we picked good.
    How many of the "Gone" Players are still even in the NFL?

    Take your purple glasses off.
    The previous regime sucked at drafting and you can't give the excuse that it is a crap shoot cause it doesn't wash with me.

    Again, watch how this staff drafts.
    They will draft players that will fill actual roster spots and they will get them when they should actually be taken (unlike how Foley did in 2006 draft were he took some sooner than expected).

    2005
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Troy Williamson South Carolina
    (Gone. I suppose it was the coaches fault)
    1 Erasmus James Wisconsin
    (Can't stay on the field)
    2 Marcus Johnson Mississippi
    (Solid backup)
    3 Dustin Fox Ohio State
    (Gone)
    4 Ciatrick Fason Florida
    (Gone)
    6 C.J. Mosley Missouri
    (Gone)
    7 Adrian Ward Texas-El Paso
    (Gone)


    2004
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kenechi Udeze USC
    (I like this guy, some don't)
    2 Dontarrious Thomas Auburn (Solid pick)
    3 Darrion Scott Ohio State
    (Who knows.
    Still a piece of pooh if you ask me)
    4 Nat Dorsey Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    4 Mewelde Moore Tulane
    (Decent pick)
    5 Rod Davis Southern Mississippi
    (Gone)
    6 Deandre' Eiland South Carolina
    (Gone)
    7 Jeff Dugan Maryland
    (Solid pick, great value)


    2003
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kevin Williams Oklahoma State
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 E.J. Henderson Maryland
    (Excellent Pick)
    3 Nate Burleson Nevada-Reno
    (Solid Pick)
    4 Onterrio Smith Oregon
    (Gone. Probably would have been a good one if his head was on straight)
    6 Eddie Johnson Idaho State
    (Gone)
    6 Michael Nattiel Florida
    (Gone)
    7 Keenan Howry Oregon
    (Gone)


    2002
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Bryant McKinnie Miami (FL)
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 Raonall Smith Washington State
    (Gone)
    3 Willie Offord South Carolina
    (Gone)
    4 Brian Williams North Carolina State
    (Decent Pick)
    4 Edward Ta'amu Utah

    (Gone)
    6 Nick Rogers Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    7 Chad Beasley Virginia Tech
    (Gone)


    2001
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Michael Bennett Wisconsin
    (Good pick)
    2 Willie Howard Stanford
    (Gone)
    3 Eric Kelly Kentucky
    (Gone)
    4 Shawn Worthen Texas Christian (Gone)
    4 Cedric James Texas Christian
    (Gone)
    5 Patrick Chukwurah Wyoming
    (Gone)
    6 Carey Scott Kentucky State
    (Gone)
    7 Brian Crawford Western Oregon (Gone, I actually liked this pick at the time)


    http://www.databasefootball.com/draf...?tm=MIN&lg=nfl
    Marrdro the fact is you never know how someone will end up going from clooege to the NFL.
    There are many players on here that all had high potential that didn't pan out.
    For instance Randy Moss was a crap shoot becasue of his baggage.
    He turned out fine.
    Michael Bennett was a crap shoot that did okay but turned out to be a bust IMO.
    I can sit here and analyze each person for you but unfortunately I don't have the time to do that right now.
    But no matter how you slice it you do not know how a player will transition in the NFL.
    A lot of it has to do with what team drafts you, their current players and coaching staff.
    Since 2000 we haven't been a winning team.
    I think some of the players drafted had high potential.
    Some were gambles.
    It's done in every draft by every team.
    But you can't tell me the current players and coaches have nothing to do with it.
    You may not want to except the crap shoot excuse but EVERY one is.
    Look at players like Leaf and Couch that were supposed to be football's next Elway or Marino.
    I bet you if Couch had the coaches and players around him that Cleveland has now his career could have been different.
    Notice I say could have been becasue we'll never know.
    That is why everyone is a crap shoot.
    You don't have to take the time to analyze anything my friend and I will agree that it is a crap shoot but just look at the facts.

    Most of the players that have a "Gone" behind thier name should still be contributing to the team (Vikes) or any other team for that matter.

    Take alook at the teams that win in the current FA kindof environment the NFL operates in now and you will find that they had more than 1 or 2 of thier players not only make the team every year but provide impacts for years to come.

    And, by the way, the ones that did leave, were snatched by other teams.

    Because we have drafted wisely the last 2 years we now are seeing the benifits from it.
    To bad we were set at S and QB or Blue and Thygpen would still be on the team.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #18
    seaniemck7's Avatar
    seaniemck7 is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    1,453

    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    I think Denny and Tice drafted fine.
    As we all know drafting is a crap shoot.
    As Singer pointed out EJ and Williams.
    What about Denny drafting Moss?


    I think the more important question regarding the drafts are:
    Were the players tought how to play well?
    How was the discipline?
    There are many factors to consider as to why draft choices do and don't work out.
    Most of the time a player is drafted becasue of their skills and how they are expected to play in the NFL.
    How it ends up is a different story.
    I disagree.

    I don't think it is that big of a crap shoot.

    Take a look at the Vikes as they sit today.
    They had 15 openings going into FA.
    They will probably sign 4-8 Vets (a few from other teams and a few of thier own).

    If a front office and thier scouting staff can't find 7 quallity players that can fill those other vacancies then they should be released by the owner.

    Face it, the truth of the matter is that for 5 years (I liked how the staff drafted before McCombs took over) this organization (not Tice) screwed the pooch when it came to drafting.
    Hell I don't think they got it right a third of the time.


    Again, that is why our team was going no were fast after the "Outstanding" 9-7 season you all keep
    reminding us of.

    Really, I am being serious here.
    Can you guys sit there and tell me that we picked good.
    How many of the "Gone" Players are still even in the NFL?

    Take your purple glasses off.
    The previous regime sucked at drafting and you can't give the excuse that it is a crap shoot cause it doesn't wash with me.

    Again, watch how this staff drafts.
    They will draft players that will fill actual roster spots and they will get them when they should actually be taken (unlike how Foley did in 2006 draft were he took some sooner than expected).

    2005
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Troy Williamson South Carolina
    (Gone. I suppose it was the coaches fault)
    1 Erasmus James Wisconsin
    (Can't stay on the field)
    2 Marcus Johnson Mississippi
    (Solid backup)
    3 Dustin Fox Ohio State
    (Gone)
    4 Ciatrick Fason Florida
    (Gone)
    6 C.J. Mosley Missouri
    (Gone)
    7 Adrian Ward Texas-El Paso
    (Gone)


    2004
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kenechi Udeze USC
    (I like this guy, some don't)
    2 Dontarrious Thomas Auburn (Solid pick)
    3 Darrion Scott Ohio State
    (Who knows.
    Still a piece of pooh if you ask me)
    4 Nat Dorsey Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    4 Mewelde Moore Tulane
    (Decent pick)
    5 Rod Davis Southern Mississippi
    (Gone)
    6 Deandre' Eiland South Carolina
    (Gone)
    7 Jeff Dugan Maryland
    (Solid pick, great value)


    2003
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Kevin Williams Oklahoma State
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 E.J. Henderson Maryland
    (Excellent Pick)
    3 Nate Burleson Nevada-Reno
    (Solid Pick)
    4 Onterrio Smith Oregon
    (Gone. Probably would have been a good one if his head was on straight)
    6 Eddie Johnson Idaho State
    (Gone)
    6 Michael Nattiel Florida
    (Gone)
    7 Keenan Howry Oregon
    (Gone)


    2002
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Bryant McKinnie Miami (FL)
    (Excellent Pick)
    2 Raonall Smith Washington State
    (Gone)
    3 Willie Offord South Carolina
    (Gone)
    4 Brian Williams North Carolina State
    (Decent Pick)
    4 Edward Ta'amu Utah

    (Gone)
    6 Nick Rogers Georgia Tech
    (Gone)
    7 Chad Beasley Virginia Tech
    (Gone)


    2001
    Rnd Name College Note
    1 Michael Bennett Wisconsin
    (Good pick)
    2 Willie Howard Stanford
    (Gone)
    3 Eric Kelly Kentucky
    (Gone)
    4 Shawn Worthen Texas Christian (Gone)
    4 Cedric James Texas Christian
    (Gone)
    5 Patrick Chukwurah Wyoming
    (Gone)
    6 Carey Scott Kentucky State
    (Gone)
    7 Brian Crawford Western Oregon (Gone, I actually liked this pick at the time)


    http://www.databasefootball.com/draf...?tm=MIN&lg=nfl
    Marrdro the fact is you never know how someone will end up going from clooege to the NFL.
    There are many players on here that all had high potential that didn't pan out.
    For instance Randy Moss was a crap shoot becasue of his baggage.
    He turned out fine.
    Michael Bennett was a crap shoot that did okay but turned out to be a bust IMO.
    I can sit here and analyze each person for you but unfortunately I don't have the time to do that right now.
    But no matter how you slice it you do not know how a player will transition in the NFL.
    A lot of it has to do with what team drafts you, their current players and coaching staff.
    Since 2000 we haven't been a winning team.
    I think some of the players drafted had high potential.
    Some were gambles.
    It's done in every draft by every team.
    But you can't tell me the current players and coaches have nothing to do with it.
    You may not want to except the crap shoot excuse but EVERY one is.
    Look at players like Leaf and Couch that were supposed to be football's next Elway or Marino.
    I bet you if Couch had the coaches and players around him that Cleveland has now his career could have been different.
    Notice I say could have been becasue we'll never know.
    That is why everyone is a crap shoot.
    I think the position of QB is a crap shoot because of the numerous intangibles that go along with being a successful NFL starting QB.


    There is risk with every player, sure.
    But the teams that scout the right way and do their homework tend to reduce that risk.
    The
    good teams take into account all of those factors you just mentioned and eyeball talent/personalities to fit within the scheme and team dynamic.

  9. #19
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "VikesFan4Life" wrote:
    Excellent post!
    I was going to do this, but you did a better job than I would have of layin' it all out.

    In the end, one or two good players out of a team's draft does not make it successful.

    A draft may look sexy the day after, but IMHO the only way to determine whether or not a draft is good or not is after the players have proven themselves after a few seasons.

    I do agree that you can't place 100% of the blame on the coach, but I don't know for sure who was calling the shots during the Denny/Tice years.


    I don't totally buy the "crap shoot" angle either because look at teams like the Patriots (love 'em or hate 'em) or the Colts - two teams that have drafted very well the past few years.
    The Pats were very active last year in FA, however.

    We may be jumping the gun a bit on declaring the '06 and '07 drafts a complete success, but most seem to be on the right track:

    2006
    1 Chad Greenway (Good pick, a starter.
    Played as well as you could expect a 2nd year rookie to play.)
    2 Cedric Griffin (Good pick, has some ups and downs, but a good player, and a starter.)
    2 Ryan Cook (Okay pick, drafted early, but has played generally well after being switched to OT, started)
    2 Tarvaris Jackson (Jury's still out, but has a chance to be good.
    Another starter.)
    4 Ray Edwards (Good pick, needs to keep his head straight, but a solid player.)
    5 Greg Blue (Gone - seemed like a good pick at the time, but is a liability in coverage, but would provide good depth.)

    2007
    1 Adrian Peterson (Need I say more?)
    2 Sidney Rice (Seems like a good pick, very young, shows a lot of promise.)
    3 Marcus McCauley (Solid pick, had some ups and downs like Griff, but overall, filled in well for Winfield.)
    4 Brian Robison (Another solid pick.
    Plenty of room to improve.)
    5 Aundrae Allison (Seems like a good KR, I'd like to see him on the field more though.)
    6 Rufus Alexander (Was on IR all last year, so I don't know much about him, I hear he's a beast)
    7 Tyler Thigpen (Gone - too bad he got away, but life goes on.)
    7 Chandler Williams (Ehh..Gone.)
    You my friend just made it onto the spread sheet, and not because you agreed with me either.
    Excellent post.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Vikings filled most of their glaring needs - Giving some well-deserved praise

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    I think the position of QB is a crap shoot because of the numerous intangibles that go along with being a successful NFL starting QB.


    There is risk with every player, sure.
    But the teams that scout the right way and do their homework tend to reduce that risk.
    The
    good teams take into account all of those factors you just mentioned and eyeball talent/personalities to fit within the scheme and team dynamic.
    Another candidate for movement in the Ole Spreedsheet.


    I love your take on the QB position my friend.

    Excellent post.
    (It is expected though, as you are from Southeastern VA.
    ;D)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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