Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 40
  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    43,899

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "rednorsk" #1094171
    IMHO, no QB in his right mind would want to come here to get destroyed like Favre did last year. The offensive line is VERY bad!
    A few things.......

    1. The OL had alot of injuries last year. That in and of itself makes for a bad day for QB's, mostly because of the inconsistency you will see when you put OLmen together with guys they aren't used to working next to at game speed.

    2. We were running a very complex blocking scheme called a Zone Blocking scheme. Again, back to item 1. If the backup Center doesn't know when the backup G is going to disengage (with the guy they are doubling) as he moves to the next level to take the LB on, you will see blocks missed.

    Even with that mix of backups they were ranked in the middle or slightly higher than the middle of the league when it comes to OL's last year.

    3. We are not going to run the Zone Blocking scheme (atleast not primarily. I still say all teams runs some sort of the ZB scheme) this year so that complexity issue should go away.

    4. We should have all of our starters back again next year. You know, the ones who did a good job in 2009.

    5. Most importantly. All WCO QB's take more hits than a traditional pocket passer. Nature of the scheme. If you can't get out and move around your gonna get killed. Case in point, the Noodle was getting killed last year behind the backups, and yet, young Webb (nimble of foot that he is) came in and did just fine and wasn't hit more than one would expect for a WCO QB.

    Long story short, I don't think our OL will hinder any QB from coming to play for the Vikes this year, unless of course, he is a slow footed beast that shouldn't be trying to run a WCO.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "rednorsk" #1094171
    IMHO, no QB in his right mind would want to come here to get destroyed like Favre did last year. The offensive line is VERY bad!
    Very wise post. You need to stop by more often.

  3. #23
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094189

    1. The OL had alot of injuries last year. That in and of itself makes for a bad day for QB's, mostly because of the inconsistency you will see when you put OLmen together with guys they aren't used to working next to at game speed.
    That is not an excuse, it is a part of the game you need to be prepared for and you need to make sure the scheme is one that can account for them.


    2. We were running a very complex blocking scheme called a Zone Blocking scheme. Again, back to item 1. If the backup Center doesn't know when the backup G is going to disengage (with the guy they are doubling) as he moves to the next level to take the LB on, you will see blocks missed.
    It is the job of the FO and the coaching staff to have not only starters but also reserves that know the blocking assignments and to be able to step in when needed and execute them.

    If you decide to have a scheme that is more complicated than other teams are running you had best put a priority on finding a group of guys that can run it and also have backups who know what to do and can step in when needed.



    Even with that mix of backups they were ranked in the middle or slightly higher than the middle of the league when it comes to OL's last year.
    Of course GB had even more young players and turnover on the OL than the Vikings over the past 2 years but instead of using it as an excuse they just went out and won a SB instead.

    3. We are not going to run the Zone Blocking scheme (atleast not primarily. I still say all teams runs some sort of the ZB scheme) this year so that complexity issue should go away.
    That would be a wise move.

    4. We should have all of our starters back again next year. You know, the ones who did a good job in 2009.
    Good enough to get the QB so battered he was in no shape to finish the NFCCG and too beat up to be of any good the next season.

    5. Most importantly. All WCO QB's take more hits than a traditional pocket passer. Nature of the scheme. If you can't get out and move around your gonna get killed. Case in point, the Noodle was getting killed last year behind the backups, and yet, young Webb (nimble of foot that he is) came in and did just fine and wasn't hit more than one would expect for a WCO QB.
    That QB in the #2 slot didn't fare so well either.

    Long story short, I don't think our OL will hinder any QB from coming to play for the Vikes this year, unless of course, he is a slow footed beast that shouldn't be trying to run a WCO.
    I'm just hoping the change at the top of the coaching staff will bring a new philosophy and that a change with the OL coach will give us a better trained OL that will be more effective.

  4. #24
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,776
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094189

    5. Most importantly. All WCO QB's take more hits than a traditional pocket passer. Nature of the scheme. If you can't get out and move around your gonna get killed. Case in point, the Noodle was getting killed last year behind the backups, and yet, young Webb (nimble of foot that he is) came in and did just fine and wasn't hit more than one would expect for a WCO QB.
    hmmm... interesting.

    Last season, Webb played in 5 games. 2 of them were mop up duty in the end of the fourth, or filling in a play during an injury.

    in his 3 full games, he was sacked 8 times. 2.6667 times per game.
    in Favre's 12 full games last year, he was sacked 22 times. I included the one in the Bills game, even though it hurts my cause. that equals 1.8 sacks per game. Take away the bills game, and it's 1.75

    Now, care to explain to me your 'point' works? Webb came out and got sacked MORE often than Favre did. More often than a guy who allegedly couldn't move in the pocket.

    As usual... FACTS

  5. #25
    HEY's Avatar
    HEY
    HEY is offline Star Spokesman
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    2,193
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092786
    Outside Linebacker - Starter Needed - Just need to sign Erin back or plug Jasper in.
    Huh... Jasper Brinkley is not an outside linebacker.
    I don't think he will perform well on the outside at all. I see him "only" as the future replacement and backup to E.J. Henderson. There is also that other guy from Minnesota University who we drafted last year. Can't remember the name right now, but he reminds me of Brinkley. As far as Brinkley goes, he's a big guy who only knows (as far as I know) the inside position and is undoubtedly at his strongest against the run. I think he has showed flashes of good instinct and tackling ability. The only thing he has on E.J. is durability.

  6. #26
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    hmmm... interesting.

    Last season, Webb played in 5 games. 2 of them were mop up duty in the end of the fourth, or filling in a play during an injury.

    in his 3 full games, he was sacked 8 times. 2.6667 times per game.
    in Favre's 12 full games last year, he was sacked 22 times. I included the one in the Bills game, even though it hurts my cause. that equals 1.8 sacks per game. Take away the bills game, and it's 1.75

    Now, care to explain to me your 'point' works? Webb came out and got sacked MORE often than Favre did. More often than a guy who allegedly couldn't move in the pocket.

    As usual... FACTS

    Not that I agree with marty's assessment, but even though Brett was sacked only 22 times, he was hit like a red headed stepchild on nearly every pass play both last year and for a good chunk of late 2009. I believe he was eluding to not only the number of sacks but the total amounts of hits a WCO QB takes. Some of this possibly due to shorter drops and roll outs?

  7. #27
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,776
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    I definitely don't think Brinkley is an OLB replacement. Replacing Ben's position, he'll have to be strong against the run, which he is. but in a man coverage defense, he'll also be responsible for covering the TE alot of the time. He is definitely a liability in pass coverage, as we saw when he filled in for EJ. Hopefully he's improved, but I'd much rather have him at MLB than OLB. Plus, it seems alot f teams seem to be switching to faster OLB's who can cover more ground and also man-up effectively. Brinkley isn't that guy.

  8. #28
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,776
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094249
    hmmm... interesting.

    Last season, Webb played in 5 games. 2 of them were mop up duty in the end of the fourth, or filling in a play during an injury.

    in his 3 full games, he was sacked 8 times. 2.6667 times per game.
    in Favre's 12 full games last year, he was sacked 22 times. I included the one in the Bills game, even though it hurts my cause. that equals 1.8 sacks per game. Take away the bills game, and it's 1.75

    Now, care to explain to me your 'point' works? Webb came out and got sacked MORE often than Favre did. More often than a guy who allegedly couldn't move in the pocket.

    As usual... FACTS

    Not that I agree with marty's assessment, but even though Brett was sacked only 22 times, he was hit like a red headed stepchild on nearly every pass play both last year and for a good chunk of late 2009. I believe he was eluding to not only the number of sacks but the total amounts of hits a WCO QB takes. Some of this possibly due to shorter drops and roll outs?
    While htis is true, do you remember how often we saw Webb break free from a sack? He was getting hit, and he has a great ability to break free from contact. he broke out of sacks that Favre would have taken. Despite that, he still averaged more sacks per game. And he didn't even have one game with lots and two with few, he had something like 3, 3 and 2 sacks in his three games.

  9. #29
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16,646
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094249
    hmmm... interesting.

    Last season, Webb played in 5 games. 2 of them were mop up duty in the end of the fourth, or filling in a play during an injury.

    in his 3 full games, he was sacked 8 times. 2.6667 times per game.
    in Favre's 12 full games last year, he was sacked 22 times. I included the one in the Bills game, even though it hurts my cause. that equals 1.8 sacks per game. Take away the bills game, and it's 1.75

    Now, care to explain to me your 'point' works? Webb came out and got sacked MORE often than Favre did. More often than a guy who allegedly couldn't move in the pocket.

    As usual... FACTS

    Not that I agree with marty's assessment, but even though Brett was sacked only 22 times, he was hit like a red headed stepchild on nearly every pass play both last year and for a good chunk of late 2009. I believe he was eluding to not only the number of sacks but the total amounts of hits a WCO QB takes. Some of this possibly due to shorter drops and roll outs?
    While htis is true, do you remember how often we saw Webb break free from a sack? He was getting hit, and he has a great ability to break free from contact. he broke out of sacks that Favre would have taken. Despite that, he still averaged more sacks per game. And he didn't even have one game with lots and two with few, he had something like 3, 3 and 2 sacks in his three games.
    Oh I agree with you 100% on what you are saying but some of it backs up Marty
    While htis is true, do you remember how often we saw Webb break free from a sack? He was getting hit, and he has a great ability to break free from contact
    I believe Marty was just stating that the WCO QB's take more hits than in other systems. I don't have any data to show anything one way or the other except that I will say in Chilly's system the QB's definitely were taking more than their share of hits.

    Just think of how much time TJ spent on the shelf in his 5 seasons because of hits he took. Same with:

    Brad Johnson
    Gus
    Brett
    Bollinger....

    I actually think Bollinger stayed the cleanest out of the bunch but when you look at the rest it is like an NFL Triage area.

  10. #30
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,776
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094268
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094251
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094249
    hmmm... interesting.

    Last season, Webb played in 5 games. 2 of them were mop up duty in the end of the fourth, or filling in a play during an injury.

    in his 3 full games, he was sacked 8 times. 2.6667 times per game.
    in Favre's 12 full games last year, he was sacked 22 times. I included the one in the Bills game, even though it hurts my cause. that equals 1.8 sacks per game. Take away the bills game, and it's 1.75

    Now, care to explain to me your 'point' works? Webb came out and got sacked MORE often than Favre did. More often than a guy who allegedly couldn't move in the pocket.

    As usual... FACTS

    Not that I agree with marty's assessment, but even though Brett was sacked only 22 times, he was hit like a red headed stepchild on nearly every pass play both last year and for a good chunk of late 2009. I believe he was eluding to not only the number of sacks but the total amounts of hits a WCO QB takes. Some of this possibly due to shorter drops and roll outs?
    While htis is true, do you remember how often we saw Webb break free from a sack? He was getting hit, and he has a great ability to break free from contact. he broke out of sacks that Favre would have taken. Despite that, he still averaged more sacks per game. And he didn't even have one game with lots and two with few, he had something like 3, 3 and 2 sacks in his three games.
    Oh I agree with you 100% on what you are saying but some of it backs up Marty
    While htis is true, do you remember how often we saw Webb break free from a sack? He was getting hit, and he has a great ability to break free from contact
    I believe Marty was just stating that the WCO QB's take more hits than in other systems. I don't have any data to show anything one way or the other except that I will say in Chilly's system the QB's definitely were taking more than their share of hits.
    The issue though, is he's contradicting himself. In a different thread, one of the QB threads, he talks about how the day of traditional pocket passers like Manning or Brady is dead, because defenses are focusing on hitting them, and a quicker mobile guy is required to avoid hits. Now he's saying that a West Coast passer who moves around is now more likely to be hit?
    Just think of how much time TJ spent on the shelf in his 5 seasons because of hits he took. Same with:

    Brad Johnson
    Gus
    Brett
    Bollinger....
    BJ, Gus, Brett and BOllinger all got hurt because they're older, and got hit in the pocket. TJ got hurt most often while rushing, as he didn't seem to understand how to slide.

    I actually think Bollinger stayed the cleanest out of the bunch but when you look at the rest it is like an NFL Triage area.[/quote]

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Vikings Starters In 2011
    By HEY in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 05-01-2011, 01:25 PM
  2. Vikings 2011 Offensive & Defensive Needs
    By Tanner2729 in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-26-2011, 06:06 AM
  3. Vikings to play outside for all of 2011?
    By singersp in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 12-31-2010, 01:40 AM
  4. Saints seek help on defensive, offensive lines
    By Marrdro in forum General NFL Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-15-2009, 07:09 AM
  5. Who's your Offensive and Defensive player of the year
    By DemonicViking in forum Vikings Fan Forum
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 12-27-2005, 07:02 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •