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  1. #31
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093490
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093481
    I'll say it again. I expect a lot of scouts to be proven wrong in this draft. The more i watch these guys the more i beleive this to be the best Qb class in quite sometime. Cam and gabbert will be starters. Stanzi and Mallet will be solid pros. Add a few more like Ponder and Locker and your have a class that will be great.
    Even though I agree, I'm not sure what scouts your talking about.

    Dang near everyone that I listen to, read, watch, that I think has a clue, says that this class has 8 "Franchise" QB's in it. From what I gather the following is what they think:

    Franchise - Should Start in a year and be effective:
    #1 Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri 6ft 4.1in 236 4.62
    #2 Cam Newton QB Auburn 6ft 5.3in 244 4.60
    #3 Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas 6ft 6.2in 238 5.37
    #4 Jake Locker QB Washington 6ft 2.4in 231 4.59

    Franchise - Could start if necessary but would be better suited to sit and watch for a year or two:
    #5 Christian Ponder QB Florida State 6ft 2.0in 229 4.65
    #6 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada 6ft 4.5in 233 4.53
    #7 Andy Dalton QB Texas Christian 6ft 2.0in 215 4.87
    #8 Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa 6ft 4.3in 223 4.93

    Should become a solid backup and could possibly start in 3 or 4 years:
    #9 Tyrod Taylor QB Virginia Tech 6ft 0.6in 217 4.51
    #10 Pat Devlin QB Delaware 6ft 3.3in 225 4.86
    #11 Greg McElroy QB Alabama 6ft 1.4in 212 4.97

    As I said in another post to you, I think they will come off the board even faster than I did in my mock draft with all but the 9, 10 and 11 ranked QB's gone by our second pick or atleast gone by the end of the second round.
    You know what Marr,
    Something in my gut tells me the opposite.
    Something tells me that after Cam and Blaine goes, teams will cool off because there isn't a huge difference between a guy like Locker and Ponder. A team like Seattle @ 25 will probably take an elite player that has fallen and then go after one of the other Qbs in the 2nd round. Cincy will be best served grabbing a guy like AJ Green and taking Ponder/Locker in the 2nd. Expect a lot of guys to slide to he 3rd and then the frenzy will start. Some team is going to come out smelling like Roses, Grabbing. A key defensive player in the first, A bigtime OL in the 2nd and a Qb in the 3rd. Wish I could be the Pats GM this year. I would bundle my a 2nd and 3rd...2times to end up with 4 first round picks...Leaving the Draft with the likes of Julio Jones, Pouncey, Gabe Carimi and Jimmy Smith, would destroy the Universe as we know it.

  2. #32
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093610
    You know what Marr,
    Something in my gut tells me the opposite.
    Something tells me that after Cam and Blaine goes, teams will cool off because there isn't a huge difference between a guy like Locker and Ponder. A team like Seattle @ 25 will probably take an elite player that has fallen and then go after one of the other Qbs in the 2nd round. Cincy will be best served grabbing a guy like AJ Green and taking Ponder/Locker in the 2nd. Expect a lot of guys to slide to he 3rd and then the frenzy will start. Some team is going to come out smelling like Roses, Grabbing. A key defensive player in the first, A bigtime OL in the 2nd and a Qb in the 3rd. Wish I could be the Pats GM this year. I would bundle my a 2nd and 3rd...2times to end up with 4 first round picks...Leaving the Draft with the likes of Julio Jones, Pouncey, Gabe Carimi and Jimmy Smith, would destroy the Universe as we know it.
    I hear ya and don't think your scenario is to far off either.

    Truth of the matter is, this year is a pretty hard one to figure out, mostly cause of the QB's and the number of teams that need them, coupled with the lack of FA before the draft.

    At first it was hard for me to get into it, because of the lack of FA, but after listening to guys like the Panthers GM "Marty" and Kirwan talk the other day, I see the challenges associated with it.

    Back to your scenario, have you taken a look at what Kirwan has done in with his first and second?

    As usual, teams near the top of the draft generally are looking at quarterbacks and teams near the bottom of the first round usually have a quarterback. This class has two quarterbacks who should go in the top eight picks, and the rest of the teams searching for a passer were hoping to grab one in the second round. However, there is a good chance there will be a few trades at the bottom of the first round to get a quarterback before the overnight break between Round 1 and 2.

    With that in mind, I added a few trades in this mock draft to illustrate some things that could happen. Also, this is a two-round mock.
    1. Car - Newton
    5. Cards - Gabbert
    24. Bills trade with Aints - Locker
    28. Pats trade with Cincy - Mallet
    30. Jets trade with Titans - Ponder
    Kirwans Mock 1rst Round

    Keep in mind, there will be different teams in certain slots due to the trades I predicted in the first round. We also start off Round 2 with another trade.

    Washington now owns the top slot in this projection after making a deal with the Patriots. The move from 41 to 33, cost the Redskins 110 points on the trade chart. Since the Redskins don't have another pick until 144, they send next year's third-round pick to New England.

    The deal allows the Redskins to get their quarterback of the future, but look at New England in this mock draft. They draft Anthony Castonzo, Muhammad Wilkerson, Danny Watkins and Ryan Williams. They also pick up an additional second and third next year, and still have five picks left in the 2011 draft.
    33. Deadskins - Kaep
    43. Vikes - Dalton
    Kirwans Mock 2nd Round

    I don't do trades in my mocks, but I believe he isn't to far off on how they will come off the board. By the way, thats 7 of the top 10 gone and I would put Stanzi in there before I would Dalton.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #33
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1093602
    This QB class is considered weak because not a single one appears to be a blue chip starter.Some will be starters due to need and where they are drafted, but every single one of them has issues and flaws.

    Newton- Best statistically of them all. Read option offense. QB makes one read, if covered he runs. Left Florida to avoid suspension after stealing a laptop and cheating on exams. Questionable accuracy.

    Gabbert- Checkdown QB in final year. 6.7 yd avg.. Only completed 30% of passes greater than 15 yds.. Some suggestion of tanking under pressure, eg. throwing picks in crunch time.

    Locker- 15-25 record.54% completion. 6.65 yds. avg.. Inaccurate. Injury prone.Regressed in final season. Poor supporting cast? Elite QB's usually make their teammates better.

    Mallett- Great numbers, pro style offense, tough conference. Accurate cannon like arm.
    Took most sacks of all QB's in this draft class last two years. Trouble closing with game on the line at times. Mobility of a statue. Would need a top tier pass blocking line to be successful.
    Arrest for intoxication with smell of hooch. Rumors of coke use.

    Ponder- Pro-style offense. Good completion percentage, 61.8% career. Intelligent, graduated in 2 1/2 yrs. GPA 3.73. Good athlete. Outstanding footwork. Fits WCO.
    Prior gd. III seperation of throwing shoulder. Now recovered but has a weak arm. Career 49 TD/30 INT. is unimpressive.

    Stanzi- Pro-style offense. WCO. Reading defense considered a strength.
    Considered average athelete with physical limitations. Lacks high ceiling.

    Kaepernick- Great velocity on throws,fast runner, durable, started every game. Intelligent, 37 Wonderlic.
    Did not play in pro-style offense. Unique throwing motion. Questions of touch and accuracy. Considered a project.

    Dalton- Winner in Mnt. conference. No character concerns.
    Slowest release by far. Weak arm. Considered long term backup.

    I mainly posted the negative knock on these guys to indicate why some are saying this is a weak QB class.

    Only time will tell.
    Excellent post doc, as always.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #34
    thorshammer is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093612
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1093602
    This QB class is considered weak because not a single one appears to be a blue chip starter.Some will be starters due to need and where they are drafted, but every single one of them has issues and flaws.

    Newton- Best statistically of them all. Read option offense. QB makes one read, if covered he runs. Left Florida to avoid suspension after stealing a laptop and cheating on exams. Questionable accuracy.

    Gabbert- Checkdown QB in final year. 6.7 yd avg.. Only completed 30% of passes greater than 15 yds.. Some suggestion of tanking under pressure, eg. throwing picks in crunch time.

    Locker- 15-25 record.54% completion. 6.65 yds. avg.. Inaccurate. Injury prone.Regressed in final season. Poor supporting cast? Elite QB's usually make their teammates better.

    Mallett- Great numbers, pro style offense, tough conference. Accurate cannon like arm.
    Took most sacks of all QB's in this draft class last two years. Trouble closing with game on the line at times. Mobility of a statue. Would need a top tier pass blocking line to be successful.
    Arrest for intoxication with smell of hooch. Rumors of coke use.

    Ponder- Pro-style offense. Good completion percentage, 61.8% career. Intelligent, graduated in 2 1/2 yrs. GPA 3.73. Good athlete. Outstanding footwork. Fits WCO.
    Prior gd. III seperation of throwing shoulder. Now recovered but has a weak arm. Career 49 TD/30 INT. is unimpressive.

    Stanzi- Pro-style offense. WCO. Reading defense considered a strength.
    Considered average athelete with physical limitations. Lacks high ceiling.

    Kaepernick- Great velocity on throws,fast runner, durable, started every game. Intelligent, 37 Wonderlic.
    Did not play in pro-style offense. Unique throwing motion. Questions of touch and accuracy. Considered a project.

    Dalton- Winner in Mnt. conference. No character concerns.
    Slowest release by far. Weak arm. Considered long term backup.

    I mainly posted the negative knock on these guys to indicate why some are saying this is a weak QB class.

    Only time will tell.
    Excellent post doc, as always.
    Personally I like Kaepernick. A lot of people compare him to Freeman from Tampa. I still wish we had gotten Freeman. I think this kid is smart, has the right attitude and will be a great pro.

  5. #35
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "thorshammer" #1093623
    Personally I like Kaepernick. A lot of people compare him to Freeman from Tampa. I still wish we had gotten Freeman. I think this kid is smart, has the right attitude and will be a great pro.
    Alot of people, me included, believe the same my friend on both counts.

    The big question though, is 12 to high (I think yes) or will he make it to 43 (I think no).
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #36
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Here's a question for you.

    Why would the Vikings draft a QB if he isn't going to be a first day starter and/or franchise QB?

    They already have a project in Webb.

    Isn't drafting another project a wasted draft pick?

    In my mind the guy you are drafting certainly needs to be better than Webb. How many in this draft are better?

    Unless they have very little faith that Webb can develop, they may not even take a QB.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  7. #37
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093610
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093490
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093481
    I'll say it again. I expect a lot of scouts to be proven wrong in this draft. The more i watch these guys the more i beleive this to be the best Qb class in quite sometime. Cam and gabbert will be starters. Stanzi and Mallet will be solid pros. Add a few more like Ponder and Locker and your have a class that will be great.
    Even though I agree, I'm not sure what scouts your talking about.

    Dang near everyone that I listen to, read, watch, that I think has a clue, says that this class has 8 "Franchise" QB's in it. From what I gather the following is what they think:

    Franchise - Should Start in a year and be effective:
    #1 Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri 6ft 4.1in 236 4.62
    #2 Cam Newton QB Auburn 6ft 5.3in 244 4.60
    #3 Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas 6ft 6.2in 238 5.37
    #4 Jake Locker QB Washington 6ft 2.4in 231 4.59

    Franchise - Could start if necessary but would be better suited to sit and watch for a year or two:
    #5 Christian Ponder QB Florida State 6ft 2.0in 229 4.65
    #6 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada 6ft 4.5in 233 4.53
    #7 Andy Dalton QB Texas Christian 6ft 2.0in 215 4.87
    #8 Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa 6ft 4.3in 223 4.93

    Should become a solid backup and could possibly start in 3 or 4 years:
    #9 Tyrod Taylor QB Virginia Tech 6ft 0.6in 217 4.51
    #10 Pat Devlin QB Delaware 6ft 3.3in 225 4.86
    #11 Greg McElroy QB Alabama 6ft 1.4in 212 4.97

    As I said in another post to you, I think they will come off the board even faster than I did in my mock draft with all but the 9, 10 and 11 ranked QB's gone by our second pick or atleast gone by the end of the second round.
    You know what Marr,
    Something in my gut tells me the opposite.
    Something tells me that after Cam and Blaine goes, teams will cool off because there isn't a huge difference between a guy like Locker and Ponder. A team like Seattle @ 25 will probably take an elite player that has fallen and then go after one of the other Qbs in the 2nd round. Cincy will be best served grabbing a guy like AJ Green and taking Ponder/Locker in the 2nd. Expect a lot of guys to slide to he 3rd and then the frenzy will start. Some team is going to come out smelling like Roses, Grabbing. A key defensive player in the first, A bigtime OL in the 2nd and a Qb in the 3rd. Wish I could be the Pats GM this year. I would bundle my a 2nd and 3rd...2times to end up with 4 first round picks...Leaving the Draft with the likes of Julio Jones, Pouncey, Gabe Carimi and Jimmy Smith, would destroy the Universe as we know it.
    I think you are right my friend. The Vikings can get another stud at 12 if they don't take a QB there.
    I'm not opposed to going with McNabb or some other free agent and trying to develop a QB behind him. I just don't want to take a QB at 12 unless he is going to be a starter.

    I would have to agree about Newton. He doesn't have the physical limitations of most of the others, and his stats and record is head and shoulders above the rest.
    Ironicly Webb has similar atheletic skills without the stats and pedigree.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  8. #38
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1093645
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093610
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093490
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093481
    I'll say it again. I expect a lot of scouts to be proven wrong in this draft. The more i watch these guys the more i beleive this to be the best Qb class in quite sometime. Cam and gabbert will be starters. Stanzi and Mallet will be solid pros. Add a few more like Ponder and Locker and your have a class that will be great.
    Even though I agree, I'm not sure what scouts your talking about.

    Dang near everyone that I listen to, read, watch, that I think has a clue, says that this class has 8 "Franchise" QB's in it. From what I gather the following is what they think:

    Franchise - Should Start in a year and be effective:
    #1 Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri 6ft 4.1in 236 4.62
    #2 Cam Newton QB Auburn 6ft 5.3in 244 4.60
    #3 Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas 6ft 6.2in 238 5.37
    #4 Jake Locker QB Washington 6ft 2.4in 231 4.59

    Franchise - Could start if necessary but would be better suited to sit and watch for a year or two:
    #5 Christian Ponder QB Florida State 6ft 2.0in 229 4.65
    #6 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada 6ft 4.5in 233 4.53
    #7 Andy Dalton QB Texas Christian 6ft 2.0in 215 4.87
    #8 Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa 6ft 4.3in 223 4.93

    Should become a solid backup and could possibly start in 3 or 4 years:
    #9 Tyrod Taylor QB Virginia Tech 6ft 0.6in 217 4.51
    #10 Pat Devlin QB Delaware 6ft 3.3in 225 4.86
    #11 Greg McElroy QB Alabama 6ft 1.4in 212 4.97

    As I said in another post to you, I think they will come off the board even faster than I did in my mock draft with all but the 9, 10 and 11 ranked QB's gone by our second pick or atleast gone by the end of the second round.
    You know what Marr,
    Something in my gut tells me the opposite.
    Something tells me that after Cam and Blaine goes, teams will cool off because there isn't a huge difference between a guy like Locker and Ponder. A team like Seattle @ 25 will probably take an elite player that has fallen and then go after one of the other Qbs in the 2nd round. Cincy will be best served grabbing a guy like AJ Green and taking Ponder/Locker in the 2nd. Expect a lot of guys to slide to he 3rd and then the frenzy will start. Some team is going to come out smelling like Roses, Grabbing. A key defensive player in the first, A bigtime OL in the 2nd and a Qb in the 3rd. Wish I could be the Pats GM this year. I would bundle my a 2nd and 3rd...2times to end up with 4 first round picks...Leaving the Draft with the likes of Julio Jones, Pouncey, Gabe Carimi and Jimmy Smith, would destroy the Universe as we know it.
    I think you are right my friend. The Vikings can get another stud at 12 if they don't take a QB there.
    I'm not opposed to going with McNabb or some other free agent and trying to develop a QB behind him. I just don't want to take a QB at 12 unless he is going to be a starter.

    I would have to agree about Newton. He doesn't have the physical limitations of most of the others, and his stats and record is head and shoulders above the rest.
    Ironicly Webb has similar atheletic skills without the stats and pedigree.
    But the question is Webbs ceiling. I don't believe it is as high as several of the Blue Chippers in this draft. Webb is developing in hopes of being a starter. Some of the guys in this draft are being developed to be Stars. That's the difference.

    I don't mind taking a Cam in the 1st and siting him a year or 2. It's all about the long term health of the franchise. Having Cam be a star for 14 seasons sounds a lot better than drafting a guy in the 2nd with limited upside and hoping that he is good enough. Cam, Gabbett, Mallet, Locker, Ponder are the only Qbs i want in the 1st or 2nd rounds. Everyone else is 3rd round material.

  9. #39
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093634
    Quote Originally Posted by "thorshammer" #1093623
    Personally I like Kaepernick. A lot of people compare him to Freeman from Tampa. I still wish we had gotten Freeman. I think this kid is smart, has the right attitude and will be a great pro.
    Alot of people, me included, believe the same my friend on both counts.

    The big question though, is 12 to high (I think yes) or will he make it to 43 (I think no).
    There is a difference in the two. Freeman had a pro ready delivery. The biggest knock on him was competition and the fact that he was not a winner.
    Keap... has serious release and throwing motion issues to correct.

  10. #40
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093652
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093634
    Quote Originally Posted by "thorshammer" #1093623
    Personally I like Kaepernick. A lot of people compare him to Freeman from Tampa. I still wish we had gotten Freeman. I think this kid is smart, has the right attitude and will be a great pro.
    Alot of people, me included, believe the same my friend on both counts.

    The big question though, is 12 to high (I think yes) or will he make it to 43 (I think no).
    There is a difference in the two. Freeman had a pro ready delivery. The biggest knock on him was competition and the fact that he was not a winner.
    Keap... has serious release and throwing motion issues to correct.
    He almost reminds me of Leftwich with the windup, but his accuracey both on the move and in the pocket that is what I liken to Freeman.

    Again, I really believe the day and age of the pure pocket passer are dead. Defenses are just geared up to kill them and any team that has one won't have him long IMHO.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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