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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093517
    All the early stuff, around the end of the season, it was alot of talk about this being a weak QB class. But of course, everyone gets the short-term memory problem, and starts believing that these players are the best there will ever be. It happens every year.
    I think the early on discussions were by yutz's like me that were disappointed the best QB stayed in school.

    Guys like Mayock and Ourlads seem to think this is a pretty good class even though a few of them have issues, mostly related to how to project them from a "Spread" QB to a "Pro Style" offense.

    Question for you, do you think these players are top-10 players, or just the need at QB is so huge that teams are willing to reach for a player? I suspect it's the latter.
    I think its a little of both, I saw a mock the other day were Tyrod Taylor went to Miami in the third. Not sure if that is as big a reach as I would have thought a few months ago. CDS projects him as a 4th rounder.

    I think that because this class has alot of "Athletes" in it, that can also throw, teams are looking at them with an eye to what they can be in a year or two especially after what they think defenses will be doing to QB's in that short of a time.

    In the end, I am almost convinced that the pure "Stand in the pocket" passer is long gone. Paying them to much money only to have the defenses beat them up so bad you can't keep them on the field.

    Don't get me wrong. I don't think teams are looking for the "Running QB" yet. Just a guy who can move around and stretch the field to the sidelines on bootlegs, rollouts and run it if he has to.

    Again, if you go back and look at what they did with the Noodle in 2009, other than running it, he moved around alot. Helped the OL, gave the WR's time to work the seams etc etc etc.
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  2. #22
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093538
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093517
    All the early stuff, around the end of the season, it was alot of talk about this being a weak QB class. But of course, everyone gets the short-term memory problem, and starts believing that these players are the best there will ever be. It happens every year.
    I think the early on discussions were by yutz's like me that were disappointed the best QB stayed in school.

    Guys like Mayock and Ourlads seem to think this is a pretty good class even though a few of them have issues, mostly related to how to project them from a "Spread" QB to a "Pro Style" offense.
    I recall alot of stuff along the lines of "outside of Luck, this draft leaves alot to be desired"

    This was also before the Cam Newton Wagon really took off too.

    Question for you, do you think these players are top-10 players, or just the need at QB is so huge that teams are willing to reach for a player? I suspect it's the latter.
    I think its a little of both, I saw a mock the other day were Tyrod Taylor went to Miami in the third. Not sure if that is as big a reach as I would have thought a few months ago. CDS projects him as a 4th rounder.
    Yes, but I think QB is one of the harder positions to forecast. There are ALWAYS teams that reach for players well before they should be taken. There are also always players that drop well below where they were projected to be taken.

    I think that because this class has alot of "Athletes" in it, that can also throw, teams are looking at them with an eye to what they can be in a year or two especially after what they think defenses will be doing to QB's in that short of a time.

    In the end, I am almost convinced that the pure "Stand in the pocket" passer is long gone. Paying them to much money only to have the defenses beat them up so bad you can't keep them on the field.
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Look at all the scrambling QB's in the league, and name me one who hasn't had significant injuries. Now look at some of the pure passers out there, they're on average alot more healthy than their running counterparts.
    Don't get me wrong. I don't think teams are looking for the "Running QB" yet. Just a guy who can move around and stretch the field to the sidelines on bootlegs, rollouts and run it if he has to.
    Manning and Brady can do both of those, but they're pretty much a textbook version of a pocket passer.

    Again, if you go back and look at what they did with the Noodle in 2009, other than running it, he moved around alot. Helped the OL, gave the WR's time to work the seams etc etc etc.
    That's what he has done almost his whole career, especially when he was younger, he was a guy who would even take off and get some yards if the play broke down. NOw, not so much, but he's always moving around, stepping up/sideways in the pocket, moving outside to try and hit a guy.

  3. #23
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    I was wondering earlier about how people said this was a very weak QB class. But as we get closer to draft day, it's looking more and more like the strongest class in a long time.

    I don't think Newton will do much, but for some reason a lot of people do, so put him on the list.

    In no particular order....

    Newton (?)
    Gabbert
    Mallett
    Locker
    Dalton
    Stanzi
    Ponder

    All of these guys are projected to be pretty decent if not spectacular. I personally think Mallett has the brightest future, but if the Vikings ended up with any of these guys I would be content.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  4. #24
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093541
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Look at all the scrambling QB's in the league, and name me one who hasn't had significant injuries. Now look at some of the pure passers out there, they're on average alot more healthy than their running counterparts.
    I don't think these guys are going to be asked to do the "Atlanta" version of Mike Vick.

    Those are the kinds of guys who get hurt.

    What I think they are going to be asked to do is stretch the field laterally and will be held back from running almost to the point they are hesitant in what they should do (instinct/what I'm being coached to do), much the way we saw the staff trying to make TJ do is first year or so.

    The only one I think that might struggle with that is Newton. I think they will have to have a "Verticle" offense for him cause he just hasn't done anything else.

    As to the mobile QB being healthier discussion point. I agree, to a point, however, I am talking about 2 years down the road when most of these kids will be starters.

    Defenses are getting to them now and making it tough to stay healthy, can you imagine what it is gonna be like in two more years?
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  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1093549
    I was wondering earlier about how people said this was a very weak QB class. But as we get closer to draft day, it's looking more and more like the strongest class in a long time.

    I don't think Newton will do much, but for some reason a lot of people do, so put him on the list.

    In no particular order....

    Newton (?)
    Gabbert
    Mallett
    Locker
    Dalton
    Stanzi
    Ponder

    All of these guys are projected to be pretty decent if not spectacular. I personally think Mallett has the brightest future, but if the Vikings ended up with any of these guys I would be content.
    Very good list.

    I think that the hype of Newton has alot to do with the discussion point I am having with Bleed (see my last post) and what I think defenses are going to be doing to QB's that are statues in the pocket.

    Most of that assumption on my part was from a discussion I heard Gil Brandt having on Sirius about a month ago when he was talking about how the defenses are changing to get pressure on the QB's based on the prevelance of the spread and how it will change the game.

    Long story short, Newton appears to be the next prototype of QB that teams will be looking for.
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  6. #26
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093555

    Long story short, Newton appears to be the next prototype of QB that teams will be looking for.
    Yes, but there's only so many Newtons to go around. You can't take a guy like Mallett and transform him into a running QB at the colleg elevel. Some guys have it, some guys don't.

    Curious, what do you think about Terrell Pryor?

  7. #27
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    1) Mallet
    2) Locker
    3) Ponder
    4) Dalton

    I want a QB who has played in a real offense

  8. #28
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Randy Moss" #1093571
    1) Mallet
    2) Locker
    3) Ponder
    4) Dalton

    I want a QB who has played in a real offense
    Then you want Mallett or Stanzi.

    They are the only 2 that are the typical drop back passers. Ponder would be third. Every other one was a hybrid QB/RB like Tebow.

    Stanzi will end up being the best of all of them and hopefully we are smart enough to take him.

  9. #29
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    This QB class is considered weak because not a single one appears to be a blue chip starter.Some will be starters due to need and where they are drafted, but every single one of them has issues and flaws.

    Newton- Best statistically of them all. Read option offense. QB makes one read, if covered he runs. Left Florida to avoid suspension after stealing a laptop and cheating on exams. Questionable accuracy.

    Gabbert- Checkdown QB in final year. 6.7 yd avg.. Only completed 30% of passes greater than 15 yds.. Some suggestion of tanking under pressure, eg. throwing picks in crunch time.

    Locker- 15-25 record.54% completion. 6.65 yds. avg.. Inaccurate. Injury prone.Regressed in final season. Poor supporting cast? Elite QB's usually make their teammates better.

    Mallett- Great numbers, pro style offense, tough conference. Accurate cannon like arm.
    Took most sacks of all QB's in this draft class last two years. Trouble closing with game on the line at times. Mobility of a statue. Would need a top tier pass blocking line to be successful.
    Arrest for intoxication with smell of hooch. Rumors of coke use.

    Ponder- Pro-style offense. Good completion percentage, 61.8% career. Intelligent, graduated in 2 1/2 yrs. GPA 3.73. Good athlete. Outstanding footwork. Fits WCO.
    Prior gd. III seperation of throwing shoulder. Now recovered but has a weak arm. Career 49 TD/30 INT. is unimpressive.

    Stanzi- Pro-style offense. WCO. Reading defense considered a strength.
    Considered average athelete with physical limitations. Lacks high ceiling.

    Kaepernick- Great velocity on throws,fast runner, durable, started every game. Intelligent, 37 Wonderlic.
    Did not play in pro-style offense. Unique throwing motion. Questions of touch and accuracy. Considered a project.

    Dalton- Winner in Mnt. conference. No character concerns.
    Slowest release by far. Weak arm. Considered long term backup.

    I mainly posted the negative knock on these guys to indicate why some are saying this is a weak QB class.

    Only time will tell.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  10. #30
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Write it down, Cam is a blue chipper.
    You can only run the offense that your coach installs. He dominated it in. He seems to be the most driven out of all the players in this draft and loves to prove people wrong. He was a man among boys last season, can make all of the throws and has no hiccups in his delivery. His questionable accuracy label came from throwing in his shorts and shirt. Better yet the guy cames thru in the clutch. You can't coach that. He puts his teammates on his back and carries the team. I'll take that any day.

    I expect 2 franchise Qbs in this draft.
    2 Strong Pros
    A couple backups

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