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  1. #11
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1093292
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093266
    My QB Rankings:

    1. Gabbert
    2. Mallett
    3. Newton
    4. Stanzi
    5. Locker
    I could live with that (almost). Mallet just doesn't seem to finish games, especially when they need him to make plays. Additionally, the lack of mobility really bothers me.

    I like Stanzi but don't see him at 12, mostly cause of the following:

    From CDS
    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1093261
    Weaknesses
    Stanzi has decent arm strength, but he often negates that with terrible footwork and lower-body mechanics. Throws off balance or flat-footed too often, causing erratic throws. Really needs to be able to step into his throws to maintain consistent accuracy. He doesn't have great pocket presence. Often, he holds the ball too long and takes unnecessary hits as a result. Doesn't always appear to trust his reads and hesitates to let the ball go in time. Other times he reacts too quickly to the pass rush, not trusting his blockers, and gets jittery and forces a throw. Needs to really develop a consistent feel in the pocket.
    Locker, by the way, isn't much better. I just have him higher for the Vikes based on what type of QB Musgrove has looked at in the past.
    I wouldn't take stanzi with #12 either. Then again there is no QB in the draft I would take that high to be honest with you. I think Gabbert is rated that high because the league has to hype a QB every year to keep interest up but I don't grade him any higher than locker and lower than Ponder.

    Can you give me a summary of what you think you see in QB's that Musgrave has worked with and how those guys are in any way similar to Gabbert, Ponder, Locker, Dalton or any of the other cookie cutter Tebow types?
    Having said all of that, I have 3 guys that seem to fit what the Vikes (in the past 4 years or so) (Gabbert/Newton/Locker) and Musgrove has looked at over his tenure that could be taken at 12 and (Ponder, Dalton, Stanzi, and Kaepernick) that could be taken at 43 if they are still there. All seem to move around nicely and seem to be pretty accurate throwers when on the move even though they can't be considered pure pocket passers. Again, I don't think the Vikes are looking for a cat like that.Gabbert
    Strengths:
    • Possesses prototypical height and bulk with a solid frame
    • Arm strength is well above average and can make all throws
    • Is much more athletic and mobile than given credit for • Smart with outstanding vision and an excellent football IQ
    • Great instincts with an understanding of passing concepts
    • Displays terrific touch, timing and accuracy on throws
    • Always keeps eyes downfield and is looking to make a play
    • Can move in pocket, buy time with feet and throw on the run
    • Does not go down easily and is able to extend the action
    • Is extremely confident and a true top-notch competitor
    • Tough with a willingness and ability to play through pain
    • A hard worker and leader who teammates will rally around
    • Still has a ton of upside and best football lies ahead


    Cam Newton.
    Strengths:
    • Prototypical height and great bulk w/ a large frame
    • Outstanding natural athleticism and is very smooth
    • Excellent arm strength and can make all the throws
    • Displays a nice throwing motion and quick delivery
    • Extremely elusive and will make plays with his feet
    • Is able to work outside pocket and throw on the run • Is strong and stands tall while draped by defenders
    • Very tough and will fight through pain and injuries
    • Ice water in veins; rises to occasion under pressure
    • Super competitive with air of confidence about him
    • A winner who has shown a ability to elevate teams
    • Still has a ton of upside and sky might be the limit


    Locker
    Strengths:
    • Adequate height and ideal bulk with a sturdy frame
    • Fantastic all-around athlete
    • Arm strength is outstanding and can make all the throws
    • Smart, mature, hard working and a team leader
    • Great mobility to buy time and make plays with his feet
    • Throws well on the run
    • Impressive footwork and throwing mechanics
    • Nice touch, timing and accuracy
    • Spent two years working in a pro style system
    • Knows how to go through progressions. Keeps eyes downfield
    • Tough and Fearless. Will play through pain and injuries
    • Extremely competitive and supremely confident
    • Has proven to be clutch late in games
    • Able to adjust to adverse weather conditions
    • Lots of experience against top-notch competition
    • Still has a ton of upside and potential



    In the end, I like Joe. He has one year of NFL experience under his belt. The current staff seems to like him and most importantly, the skillset he brings to the position.

    My guess, the staff will take a QB at either 12 or 43 if one of the cats I listed above is there.

    (key note: I was sure it was going to be Mallet head. Know I don't think he is the guy, mostly based on our scheme (atleast the scheme I think they will run) and what Musgrove has done in the past.
    Joe Webb Thread
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  2. #12
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093295
    The more and more I hear and read about Mallett, the more I like him. I think if he can get the mental game down, he can be the best of the bunch behind Newton(assuming he can do the same)
    If he can get the mental game down and if he can figure out how to move around in the pocket and if he can figure out how to make plays at the end of games when needed etc etc etc.

    Look, I'm not saying he is a piece of crap or anything. If the Vikes take him at 12 I wouldn't be to upset. He has one hell of an arm.

    My point is he doesn't match what they have done in the past and I think, if they take him, they will only be doing it cause the kid(s) they really targeted aren't going to be there when they pick next.

    Again, I believe they take Mallet if......

    a. Newton, Gabbert and Locker are all gone by 12.

    b. Kaep, Stanzi, Dalton and Ponder are gone by 43.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Musgrave was QB coach so he didn't chose any QB's.

    It's no secret Leslie wants to run the ball and utilize the players special talents rather than plugging them into a scheme.
    It was said Leslie selected Musgrove because he came from a run first team not specificly because he was a QB guru.

    "Musgrave worked with Matt Ryan as the Atlanta Falcons' quarterbacks coach, but likely appeals to Frazier because of his work in the Falcons' run-first system. Frazier has said that running back Adrian Peterson should be the focal point of the Vikings."

    So my guess is the Vikings have narrowed down their potential QB selection to only one or two that would fit the surrounding talent.

    Then it will be up to the QB coach more than Musgrave.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  4. #14
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093304
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1093291
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093259
    Alas, the Vids don't work here at work, however, I've seen enough of them to agree with your overall assesment of each QB.

    My issue is with your base discussion point......

    I am looking for a guy that stands in the pocket and looks to distribute the ball to his play makers. I am going to refer to this as the "Distribution Scale" from this point forward.
    As I posted in another thread this morning. If you look at the QB's that Musgrove has had under his tutelage, a guy like Mallet just doesn't fit that type of player.

    Having said that, I would rank them in the following order when it comes to who the Vikes probably want first, second, third etc....

    a. Gabbert
    b. Newton
    c. Locker
    d. Stanzi/Ponder
    e. Kaep

    ......with Mallet even further back than guys like Dalton.

    Again, this, I believe is mostly driven by how defenses seem to be getting pressure on QB's. That statue kindof guy (Mallet) just doesn't seem to have a shelf life that would constitute a high pick, especially when you throw in how he melts down at the end of games and can't make plays.
    I don't see any QB's in the draft that are more similar to Ryan than Mallett is. Who do you think is closer and why?
    I would say Gabbert is closer to Ryan than Mallet is. See my post/details in the links I have provided. Not gonna type it all again.

    By the way, Matt is far and away more mobile that I think you believe he is.

    Underrated athlete with great pocket awareness and ability to avoid the rush. Can throw on the run very well. Outstanding leader in and out of the huddle. A winner.
    Matt Ryan Scouting report

    Don't forget that Musgrove has coached other QB's other than Ryan my friend. None of them are anything like young Mallet.

    What is it that everyone else is seeing in Gabbert that I am not? To me it looks like he has done the best job of marketing himself and creating buzz but I just don't see the great separator in his play on the field.
    Marketing himself might have play with the sports hacks, but it doesn't do squat when it comes to the GM's and scouts that are scouting these kids.

    Gabbert is right up there because of talent. Nothing more, nothing less. The team that thinks his talents fit their scheme the best, will take him. Judging by all the visits he's had, it will be one of the top 5 with only Newton going higher.
    Gotcha.

    I guess we differ in what we see. Physically there is no debate that Mallett is the most similar to Ryan and for sure the offenses they ran were way more similar than any of the other QB's in this class until you get to Stanzi.

    Here is a highlight of Ryan in college. Note how he always drops back and maybe had an occasional run in there because he had to but it was never designed, which is also a trademark of mallett. Obviously their mental makeup might be way different but none of us have any clue as to what that is ( And VikingsTW is no longer around to see into their soul).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl7gb_y8ILU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OurYaWeYlQw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW69HWngSdk

  5. #15
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1093328
    Gotcha.

    I guess we differ in what we see. Physically there is no debate that Mallett is the most similar to Ryan and for sure the offenses they ran were way more similar than any of the other QB's in this class until you get to Stanzi.
    I agree with you on that whole statement. The problem for me isn't that he can get under center, has made line calls etc etc etc. I loved that in him when I first started scouting him.

    If you remember, it wasn't to long ago that I was sure Mallet was the perfect fit for us.

    Truth of the matter is, as I did some more study, both into the type of QB's Musgrove likes, and the type of QB the Vikings have tried to land in the draft, coupled together with a shift in the league to get a more mobile guy becuase of what defenses are now doing, Mallet scares the hell out of me.

    Obviously their mental makeup might be way different but none of us have any clue as to what that is ( And VikingsTW is no longer around to see into their soul).
    LOL. I miss some of the old characters like VikingsTW. Never a dull moment, which we now seem to have alot of lately.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    I'll say it again. I expect a lot of scouts to be proven wrong in this draft. The more i watch these guys the more i beleive this to be the best Qb class in quite sometime. Cam and gabbert will be starters. Stanzi and Mallet will be solid pros. Add a few more like Ponder and Locker and your have a class that will be great.

  7. #17
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1093481
    I'll say it again. I expect a lot of scouts to be proven wrong in this draft. The more i watch these guys the more i beleive this to be the best Qb class in quite sometime. Cam and gabbert will be starters. Stanzi and Mallet will be solid pros. Add a few more like Ponder and Locker and your have a class that will be great.
    Even though I agree, I'm not sure what scouts your talking about.

    Dang near everyone that I listen to, read, watch, that I think has a clue, says that this class has 8 "Franchise" QB's in it. From what I gather the following is what they think:

    Franchise - Should Start in a year and be effective:
    #1 Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri 6ft 4.1in 236 4.62
    #2 Cam Newton QB Auburn 6ft 5.3in 244 4.60
    #3 Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas 6ft 6.2in 238 5.37
    #4 Jake Locker QB Washington 6ft 2.4in 231 4.59

    Franchise - Could start if necessary but would be better suited to sit and watch for a year or two:
    #5 Christian Ponder QB Florida State 6ft 2.0in 229 4.65
    #6 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada 6ft 4.5in 233 4.53
    #7 Andy Dalton QB Texas Christian 6ft 2.0in 215 4.87
    #8 Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa 6ft 4.3in 223 4.93

    Should become a solid backup and could possibly start in 3 or 4 years:
    #9 Tyrod Taylor QB Virginia Tech 6ft 0.6in 217 4.51
    #10 Pat Devlin QB Delaware 6ft 3.3in 225 4.86
    #11 Greg McElroy QB Alabama 6ft 1.4in 212 4.97

    As I said in another post to you, I think they will come off the board even faster than I did in my mock draft with all but the 9, 10 and 11 ranked QB's gone by our second pick or atleast gone by the end of the second round.
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  8. #18
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Wow, 8 franchise QB's in this years draft. That would make it by far the best QB draft ever. Especially considering earlier in the offseson everyone was talking about how weak the QB class was.

    The widely accepted best NFL Draft class only produced 4-5 franchise QB's.
    1983: John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan marino, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien

    This draft will NOT produce 8 franchise QB's. Write it down, IBP said so.

    I bet you at least 3-4 of those players will be no better than backups within 4 years

  9. #19
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093501
    Wow, 8 franchise QB's in this years draft. That would make it by far the best QB draft ever. Especially considering earlier in the offseson everyone was talking about how weak the QB class was.

    The widely accepted best NFL Draft class only produced 4-5 franchise QB's.
    1983: John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan marino, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien

    This draft will NOT produce 8 franchise QB's. Write it down, IBP said so.

    I bet you at least 3-4 of those players will be no better than backups within 4 years
    You might be right, doesn't mean they aren't talking about it though.

    By the way, what have you read that said this is a weak class for QB's. Again, all the reputable sites say otherwise.

    When was the last time we saw 3 QB's go in the top 10 (I think 2004/2006 had 3 in the top 11) or 5 or 6 in the first round? Could possibly happen this year.

    Thats something for Midg to google so he can prove my memory wrong again in a means to impress people. :P
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  10. #20
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    Re: Video of the top QB's likely available to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093514
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093501
    Wow, 8 franchise QB's in this years draft. That would make it by far the best QB draft ever. Especially considering earlier in the offseson everyone was talking about how weak the QB class was.

    The widely accepted best NFL Draft class only produced 4-5 franchise QB's.
    1983: John Elway, Jim Kelly, Dan marino, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien

    This draft will NOT produce 8 franchise QB's. Write it down, IBP said so.

    I bet you at least 3-4 of those players will be no better than backups within 4 years
    You might be right, doesn't mean they aren't talking about it though.

    By the way, what have you read that said this is a weak class for QB's. Again, all the reputable sites say otherwise.
    All the early stuff, around the end of the season, it was alot of talk about this being a weak QB class. But of course, everyone gets the short-term memory problem, and starts believing that these players are the best there will ever be. It happens every year.

    When was the last time we saw 3 QB's go in the top 10 (I think 2004/2006 had 3 in the top 11) or 5 or 6 in the first round? Could possibly happen this year.
    Could possibly happen any year. Question for you, do you think these players are top-10 players, or just the need at QB is so huge that teams are willing to reach for a player? I suspect it's the latter.

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