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  1. #11
    dcboardr41 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    The first one looks better than the second if for no other reason than they are wasting a pick at TE but I could/would live with it.

    Truth be told, if in fact they draft
    BPA and not for need we might be all suprised with who they draft this year as they are drafting for depth only and IMHO don't need to worry about any instant starters for the first time in this regime.

    Key Note:
    For all you yutz's who are gonna come with the same old lame "We Need a C and a OT".
    I don't see any rookie coming in that is drafted this year and beating out Chase Johnson or Dan Mozes for the right to start.
    Disagree with me all you want, but your not gonna convince me.

    ;D

    So with that said......and one more time for possible penetration.....Spielman + 2008 + BPA = Drafting for depth.
    Not starters.

    ;D
    I hate that BPA crap, nothing personal.
    While it's true, I believe we are drafting entirely for depth this year, I believe we are thinner at depth in certain areas.
    It's not going to be BPA available, it's going to be Best OT available, Best DT available, Best Safety available, etc... seriously, if the BPA is a MLB, DE, or DB, do you see us drafting him?
    I don't... I'd be pissed if we did...

    Btw, I like the first draft.
    That fits my views for needs in depth more closely then the second.
    I have no idea who any of those players are though, I'm simply going by position.
    We wouldnt have drafted AD last year then, we would have drafted Brady Quinn, BPA is amazing lol

    Pissing on the Pack since 08'

  2. #12
    vikesfargo's Avatar
    vikesfargo is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round. I didn't see one listed on these mock drafts.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.


    Go Vikings!

  3. #13
    tastywaves's Avatar
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44391.msg768448#msg768448 date=1209121116]
    The first one looks better than the second if for no other reason than they are wasting a pick at TE but I could/would live with it.

    Truth be told, if in fact they draft
    BPA and not for need we might be all suprised with who they draft this year as they are drafting for depth only and IMHO don't need to worry about any instant starters for the first time in this regime.

    Key Note:
    For all you yutz's who are gonna come with the same old lame "We Need a C and a OT".
    I don't see any rookie coming in that is drafted this year and beating out Chase Johnson or Dan Mozes for the right to start.
    Disagree with me all you want, but your not gonna convince me.
    ;D

    So with that said......and one more time for possible penetration.....Spielman + 2008 + BPA = Drafting for depth.
    Not starters.
    ;D
    I hate that BPA crap, nothing personal.
    While it's true, I believe we are drafting entirely for depth this year, I believe we are thinner at depth in certain areas.
    It's not going to be BPA available, it's going to be Best OT available, Best DT available, Best Safety available, etc... seriously, if the BPA is a MLB, DE, or DB, do you see us drafting him?
    I don't... I'd be pissed if we did...

    Btw, I like the first draft.
    That fits my views for needs in depth more closely then the second.
    I have no idea who any of those players are though, I'm simply going by position.
    BPA usually really equates to about 5 guys in that area.
    At least that is the way I do it.
    I look at those 5 guys and see if any fit a need.
    If I do they go in the pick.
    If not I look to see if there are any close.
    Depending on how far down they are on the value board will determine if I use them.

    Most of the time a guy is there in your 5 guy area.
    If not then I look at the team to see if they have an area of old vets that they might need a guy to replace someone next year or so.
    Then he gets plugged in.

    Again, usually don't have to go past those 5 guys to select BPA.
    It's because many teams would rather get a guy they really want and have options, than force a pick they don't even want and end up with a bust that never helps the team anyways.
    Then throw in the fact that it is so easy to move up and down the board to get a guy you want if you think another team is targeting him.

    Makes no sense not to get the guy you want and him be the BPA at the same time if your value board is accurate.
    ;D
    If a team doesn't mainly focus on BPAs when they come available, they are only looking short term.
    Over the long haul, taking BPA year after year pays off in the long run.
    Just look at how the better franchises draft over the course of several years...they take sure bets over those players with "upside"...ultimately building a team that has hard working, solid players that are eventually complimented by one or two true stars that can take the team to the playoffs and ultimately to a championship.
    To keep taking just players that "might" be superstars year after year is a recipe for disaster.
    [/quote]

    Absolutely, there is a lot of merit in choosing the best football player available when your pick is up, regardless of need.
    When you have good players, even if its depth, it gives you a lot of options both on the field and off.
    That being said, I'm sure there is some consideration given to need, how much though, is hard to say.

    If you have an 85/100 grade on a CB in the 2nd and an 80/100 grade on an OT, do you take the CB or the OT?
    According to Vikings public line, you take the CB.
    What about if its 85 vs. 83?

  4. #14
    dcboardr41 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.
    If and when we draft another QB this weekend, BB will be released after training camp, no need to carry 4 QBs

    Pissing on the Pack since 08'

  5. #15
    vikesfargo's Avatar
    vikesfargo is offline Asst. Coach
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "dcboardr41" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.
    If and when we draft another QB this weekend, BB will be released after training camp, no need to carry 4 QBs
    I see it differently, I guess.

    Last year Jackson was injured, then Holcomb got injured in the same game. Bollinger was the last guy left on the depth chart. It was touch and go.

    Jackson is a mobile QB. Frerotte is a 14-year pro. Both are vulnerable to injury. If Jackson and Frerotte get hurt, we'll be down to the rookie QB. If we have all four QBs, Bollinger can step in and fill the gap when needed.

    Bollinger is not ready to be the #2 QB on this NFL team. It's a maturation process. He will get there in a year or two. At that point, Frerotte will probably retire (I'd like to see him have some new jewelry for his trophy shelf
    at that point). Then we'd have Jackson, Bollinger, and a #3 developmental QB.


    Go Vikings!

  6. #16
    dcboardr41 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    "dcboardr41" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.
    If and when we draft another QB this weekend, BB will be released after training camp, no need to carry 4 QBs
    I see it differently, I guess.

    Last year Jackson was injured, then Holcomb got injured in the same game. Bollinger was the last guy left on the depth chart. It was touch and go.

    Jackson is a mobile QB. Frerotte is a 14-year pro. Both are vulnerable to injury. If Jackson and Frerotte get hurt, we'll be down to the rookie QB. If we have all four QBs, Bollinger can step in and fill the gap when needed.

    Bollinger is not ready to be the #2 QB on this NFL team. It's a maturation process. He will get there in a year or two. At that point, Frerotte will probably retire (I'd like to see him have some new jewelry for his trophy shelf
    at that point). Then we'd have Jackson, Bollinger, and a #3 developmental QB.
    Bollinger and a maturation process, the dude is 29 he really doesnt have any more time to mature. Usually the 3rd QB spot is ment for developmental QBs, not a 29 y/o avg QB at best. And with the 4th QB spot we could use that somewhere else, like another CB or WR or OL, ill take depth at those spots then at QB.

    Pissing on the Pack since 08'

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round. I didn't see one listed on these mock drafts.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.
    They need to draft a QB because it is the right thing to do as the QB position, unlike all positions should be addressed at least every year or so until you have a reliable starter and a solid backup that are both grown in the system.

    But to come with the thought that another young QB on the bench is gonna "Push TJ" is crazy and one of those things that gets me up on a soap box and asks the poster who says it the following questions:

    a.
    Why do you think TJ needs to be pushed?
    b.
    Is he so confident with his place in life that he is approaching the job with a lazy approach?
    c.
    Do you really think a rookie QB will be able to come in and unseat him at this point because TJ is lazy?

    Comeon my friend.
    This kid has done nothing but give everything to this team from the minute he got here.
    He has never thrown any of his teamates under the bus and has shown improvement from one year to the next.

    Again, I ask, why do you think he needs to be pushed.
    My guess is that he is pushing himself more than a 3rd string rookie sitting on the bench ever would.
    :
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #18
    Schutz's Avatar
    Schutz is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "dcboardr41" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    "dcboardr41" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.
    If and when we draft another QB this weekend, BB will be released after training camp, no need to carry 4 QBs
    I see it differently, I guess.

    Last year Jackson was injured, then Holcomb got injured in the same game. Bollinger was the last guy left on the depth chart. It was touch and go.

    Jackson is a mobile QB. Frerotte is a 14-year pro. Both are vulnerable to injury. If Jackson and Frerotte get hurt, we'll be down to the rookie QB. If we have all four QBs, Bollinger can step in and fill the gap when needed.

    Bollinger is not ready to be the #2 QB on this NFL team. It's a maturation process. He will get there in a year or two. At that point, Frerotte will probably retire (I'd like to see him have some new jewelry for his trophy shelf
    at that point). Then we'd have Jackson, Bollinger, and a #3 developmental QB.
    Bollinger and a maturation process, the dude is 29 he really doesnt have any more time to mature. Usually the 3rd QB spot is ment for developmental QBs, not a 29 y/o avg QB at best. And with the 4th QB spot we could use that somewhere else, like another CB or WR or OL, ill take depth at those spots then at QB.
    Actually Bollinger is 25.

  9. #19
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "tastywaves" wrote:
    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Schutz" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=BleedinPandG link=topic=44391.msg768464#msg768464 date=1209123112]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=44391.msg768448#msg768448 date=1209121116]
    The first one looks better than the second if for no other reason than they are wasting a pick at TE but I could/would live with it.

    Truth be told, if in fact they draft
    BPA and not for need we might be all suprised with who they draft this year as they are drafting for depth only and IMHO don't need to worry about any instant starters for the first time in this regime.

    Key Note:
    For all you yutz's who are gonna come with the same old lame "We Need a C and a OT".
    I don't see any rookie coming in that is drafted this year and beating out Chase Johnson or Dan Mozes for the right to start.
    Disagree with me all you want, but your not gonna convince me.

    ;D

    So with that said......and one more time for possible penetration.....Spielman + 2008 + BPA = Drafting for depth.
    Not starters.

    ;D
    I hate that BPA crap, nothing personal.
    While it's true, I believe we are drafting entirely for depth this year, I believe we are thinner at depth in certain areas.
    It's not going to be BPA available, it's going to be Best OT available, Best DT available, Best Safety available, etc... seriously, if the BPA is a MLB, DE, or DB, do you see us drafting him?
    I don't... I'd be pissed if we did...

    Btw, I like the first draft.
    That fits my views for needs in depth more closely then the second.
    I have no idea who any of those players are though, I'm simply going by position.
    BPA usually really equates to about 5 guys in that area.
    At least that is the way I do it.
    I look at those 5 guys and see if any fit a need.
    If I do they go in the pick.
    If not I look to see if there are any close.
    Depending on how far down they are on the value board will determine if I use them.

    Most of the time a guy is there in your 5 guy area.
    If not then I look at the team to see if they have an area of old vets that they might need a guy to replace someone next year or so.
    Then he gets plugged in.

    Again, usually don't have to go past those 5 guys to select BPA.
    It's because many teams would rather get a guy they really want and have options, than force a pick they don't even want and end up with a bust that never helps the team anyways.
    Then throw in the fact that it is so easy to move up and down the board to get a guy you want if you think another team is targeting him.

    Makes no sense not to get the guy you want and him be the BPA at the same time if your value board is accurate.

    ;D
    If a team doesn't mainly focus on BPAs when they come available, they are only looking short term.
    Over the long haul, taking BPA year after year pays off in the long run.
    Just look at how the better franchises draft over the course of several years...they take sure bets over those players with "upside"...ultimately building a team that has hard working, solid players that are eventually complimented by one or two true stars that can take the team to the playoffs and ultimately to a championship.
    To keep taking just players that "might" be superstars year after year is a recipe for disaster.
    [/quote]

    Absolutely, there is a lot of merit in choosing the best football player available when your pick is up, regardless of need.
    When you have good players, even if its depth, it gives you a lot of options both on the field and off.
    That being said, I'm sure there is some consideration given to need, how much though, is hard to say.

    If you have an 85/100 grade on a CB in the 2nd and an 80/100 grade on an OT, do you take the CB or the OT?
    According to Vikings public line, you take the CB.
    What about if its 85 vs. 83?

    [/quote]

    IF it's that close, then you obviously go NEED...BUT it still depends on if the score is based more on upside than actual ability to step in right away.
    First rounders should be able to contribute immediately, otherwise you fill the need position lower down...and then draft the need position again the next year higher up if a BPA is available at the early pick.
    REMEMBER, this is a long-term strategy for success...not a quick fix.
    Over the long haul, the need positions will be filled more than adequately...giving the team more flexibility down the road to gamble a bit on a pick (like they did with Moss in 1998).
    It's situational.
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  10. #20
    dcboardr41 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Two Mock Drafts(After the Jared Allen Trade)

    "Schutz" wrote:
    "dcboardr41" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    "dcboardr41" wrote:
    "vikesfargo" wrote:
    The Vikings still need to draft a developmental QB in the 5th, 6th, or 7th round.

    There needs to be that young guy, 4th in the depth chart, pushing TJack. Secondly, all four QBs (Jackson, Frerotte, Bollinger, and the developmental guy) need to be retained for the whole season. Third, none can be put on the practice squad because then another team will just sign that guy and we'll lose him (as happened with Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs).

    Frerotte is a career backup who is in his 14th NFL year. Bollinger is a career backup who is still young. Jackson is the starter. We need another guy who comes along and challenges Bollinger for the starting spot.

    BTW, good moves getting Frerotte, Bernard Berrian, Madieu Williams, and Jared Allen. On Troy Williamson, OK, we'll see what happens.

    Very solid off-season so far.
    If and when we draft another QB this weekend, BB will be released after training camp, no need to carry 4 QBs
    I see it differently, I guess.

    Last year Jackson was injured, then Holcomb got injured in the same game. Bollinger was the last guy left on the depth chart. It was touch and go.

    Jackson is a mobile QB. Frerotte is a 14-year pro. Both are vulnerable to injury. If Jackson and Frerotte get hurt, we'll be down to the rookie QB. If we have all four QBs, Bollinger can step in and fill the gap when needed.

    Bollinger is not ready to be the #2 QB on this NFL team. It's a maturation process. He will get there in a year or two. At that point, Frerotte will probably retire (I'd like to see him have some new jewelry for his trophy shelf
    at that point). Then we'd have Jackson, Bollinger, and a #3 developmental QB.
    Bollinger and a maturation process, the dude is 29 he really doesnt have any more time to mature. Usually the 3rd QB spot is ment for developmental QBs, not a 29 y/o avg QB at best. And with the 4th QB spot we could use that somewhere else, like another CB or WR or OL, ill take depth at those spots then at QB.
    Actually Bollinger is 25.
    Date of birth: November 15, 1979 (1979-11-15) (age 28)

    He will be 29 during next season

    Pissing on the Pack since 08'

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