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  1. #1
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Today’s topic: Cornerback

    [size=13pt]Today’s topic: Cornerback[/size]

    April 23rd, 2008 – 10:46 AM

    by Judd Zulgad
    startribune.com



    The issue: It’s simple: a team can never have enough quality cornerbacks, and there is no such thing as too much competition at this position - especially when you consider the Vikings have been at the bottom of the NFL in past defense for two consecutive seasons....

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #2
    kspurplepride is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    i really hate when people talk about us being last against the pass... yes we give up the most yards, but in terms of yards per catch given up we are in the middle of the pack. Teams can't run the ball against us, so of course they are going to pass more, and thus they will get more passing yards.

    I believe we have a quality secondary. Griffin has had another year to develop, and I expect him to play well. Winfield is... well he's Winfield, my only worry is whether he can stay healthy this season. Our defense led the league in scoring last year, and a big part of that was the number of turnovers our secondary forced.

  3. #3
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    as much as I agree with you, OUr secondary needs desperate help.
    We can't afford to keep letting drives continue and get torched by our passing game.
    Remember the game 2 years ago against the Cards.
    We had that game wrapped up, but Lienart just marched downfield TWICE and almost won it because we couldn't stop the pass to save our lives.
    With the addition of Allen, i expect that will significantly improve, hopefully to top 15 in the league.
    If that happens, we would have a very good defense.

  4. #4
    Potus2028 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    "kspurplepride" wrote:
    i really hate when people talk about us being last against the pass... yes we give up the most yards, but in terms of yards per catch given up we are in the middle of the pack. Teams can't run the ball against us, so of course they are going to pass more, and thus they will get more passing yards.

    I believe we have a quality secondary. Griffin has had another year to develop, and I expect him to play well. Winfield is... well he's Winfield, my only worry is whether he can stay healthy this season. Our defense led the league in scoring last year, and a big part of that was the number of turnovers our secondary forced.
    Also, the amount of passing TD's we gave up was under the league average. And the points given up over all.. I want to say was 10th best, but I might be mistaken.

    Also.. It's not that our secondary wasn't good.. We allowed the most passing yards for these two reasons:
    -No Pass Rush
    -We stopped the run so well.. Teams used passing as their only means of offensive attack.

    Our secondary is just as good as any other league. And our new D-Line with the pass rush of Allen (and hopefully B-Rob) will show drastic improvements in regards to passing yards.
    i m better than you, so just give up...

  5. #5
    kspurplepride is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    the big thing is the scheme that we run... the cover 2 is designed to be a bend but don't break style of defense, and the Tampa 2 complicates the scheme making it a bit more difficult to learn. Linebackers play a huge part in the system, and in a lot of those drives that have been mentioned it was our linebackers who were out of position. This has to do with a couple of problems that we have had in recent years, most notably the high turnover rate we have had from year to year. We should see a definate improvement with E.J. in his second year as a middle linebacker, Greenway in what might as well be his second year, and Leber now understanding the system.

    Allen will definatly be a great addition as will Williams in the secondary. Statistically our defense didn't look great on paper, until you really look at the more important stats.

    - 12th in the league in PPG
    - 14t in yards per pass play
    - 15t passing TD's allowed
    - 8 in Sacks with 35
    - 10 overall defence according to NFL.com rating system
    - teams threw the ball against us 642 times last year (#1 in the league), which is over 200 more times than Miami which finished last in passes attempted against
    - teams attempted over 40 passes a game against us, almost 15 more per game than they did over the dolphins who were once again last in this category

    overall i'd say based on those numbers our defense was pretty good, and NOT as bad as advertised

  6. #6
    dcboardr41 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    "singersp" wrote:
    [size=13pt]Today’s topic: Cornerback[/size]

    April 23rd, 2008 – 10:46 AM

    by Judd Zulgad
    startribune.com



    The issue: It’s simple: a team can never have enough quality cornerbacks, and there is no such thing as too much competition at this position - especially when you consider the Vikings have been at the bottom of the NFL in past defense for two consecutive seasons....
    That also would give Minnesota’s personnel department an opportunity to see how much progress McCauley makes in his second season
    exactly, at least he knows not to go out and sign/trade for/ draft so you dont stunt MMs growth

    Pissing on the Pack since 08'

  7. #7
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    "kspurplepride" wrote:
    the big thing is the scheme that we run... the cover 2 is designed to be a bend but don't break style of defense, and the Tampa 2 complicates the scheme making it a bit more difficult to learn. Linebackers play a huge part in the system, and in a lot of those drives that have been mentioned it was our linebackers who were out of position. This has to do with a couple of problems that we have had in recent years, most notably the high turnover rate we have had from year to year. We should see a definate improvement with E.J. in his second year as a middle linebacker, Greenway in what might as well be his second year, and Leber now understanding the system.

    Allen will definatly be a great addition as will Williams in the secondary. Statistically our defense didn't look great on paper, until you really look at the more important stats.

    - 12th in the league in PPG
    - 14t in yards per pass play
    - 15t passing TD's allowed
    - 8 in Sacks with 35
    - 10 overall defence according to NFL.com rating system
    - teams threw the ball against us 642 times last year (#1 in the league), which is over 200 more times than Miami which finished last in passes attempted against
    - teams attempted over 40 passes a game against us, almost 15 more per game than they did over the dolphins who were once again last in this category

    overall i'd say based on those numbers our defense was pretty good, and NOT as bad as advertised
    no, our version we suck at running is a bend and don't break defense.
    An ideal Tampa- two consists of the following

    - Good pass rushing DLine who can pressure the qb without added LB blitzing.
    - Big physical corners who can hold up a reciever at the LOS, disrupting timing on short routes, giving the DLine more time tto get to the qb.
    - Fast Linebackers who can drop back into their hook zone, and cover the middle.
    The MLB, goes even farther back, almost to where the safeties are.
    - Two Safeties who excell in pass coverage.
    They split the deep field into two, noone gets deeper.
    they should be able to cover 1 on 1 without added support from the corner.

    what we've had untill now is the following:

    - a poor pass rushing DL, who can't get to the qb, requiring added blitzes, taking a lb or two out of coverage.
    - big physical corners, who DO NOT bump the reciever a the LOS.
    They give him a free release, and the timing for the QB/WR is perfect, resulting in the "bend but don't break" defense we're used to seeing.
    - One fast cover 2 linebacker.
    EJ and Leber are really i think too slow for a true cover 2, especially EJ who really has to get his ass downfield.
    - One safety who excells in pass coverage (Sharper)
    the other was really only mediocre at best (Dwight Smith)

    Hopefully wit the new additions this season, they can fix this and stop the pass a little better.
    I think adding Allen will help this significantly more than addin any other position.

  8. #8
    P.P.E. is offline Training Camp
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    It drives me nuts everytime we run the cover 2.
    Every QB and coach in the world knows how to beat a cover two.
    Every pass play in the playbook should have a route that beats cover two every time.
    It doesnt make sense to run what everyone can beat.

  9. #9
    Chazz is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    "P.P.E." wrote:
    It drives me nuts everytime we run the cover 2.
    Every QB and coach in the world knows how to beat a cover two.
    Every pass play in the playbook should have a route that beats cover two every time.
    It doesnt make sense to run what everyone can beat.

    You're talking crazy. Indy is always at the top in pass defense and they run a true cover 2 by the man who created it. I suppose you think the Bears D is not any good because they run a cover 2.

  10. #10
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Today’s topic: Cornerback

    "Chazz" wrote:
    "P.P.E." wrote:
    It drives me nuts everytime we run the cover 2.
    Every QB and coach in the world knows how to beat a cover two.
    Every pass play in the playbook should have a route that beats cover two every time.
    It doesnt make sense to run what everyone can beat.

    You're talking crazy. Indy is always at the top in pass defense and they run a true cover 2 by the man who created it. I suppose you think the Bears D is not any good because they run a cover 2.
    How about the bucs D that won the super bowl a few years back?
    I gues that must be a different cover 2..... wait, nope, its the good ol' tampa 2.
    The only difference is we run ours poorly.
    A key part of the cover 2 is having the corners bump the recievers, and having a great pass rushing DLine, neither of which happened the past 2 years.

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