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  1. #21
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Re: Spielmans Draft History

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1094332
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094328
    I will like to point out that we do not draft BPA. The only time we have done so was with AP. We Draft for need. time and time again.

    2010
    Chris Cook DB - Injuried Griffen
    Toby Gerhart RB - CT left
    Everson Griffin DE - Edwards FA
    Chris DeGeare G - No backup
    Nathan Triplett LB

    2009
    Percy Harvin WR Need Talent at the WR Position
    Phil Loadholt T Needed a new RT
    Asher Allen DB Need Cb
    Jasper Brinkley LB No backup MLB
    Jamarca Sanford DB Needed a safety

    2008
    Tyrell Johnson DB Needed a Safety to replace Sharper(aging)
    John David Booty QB - Needed a QB
    Letroy Guion DT - No Backup to Pat and Kevin
    John Sullivan C - Getting Ride of Birk
    Jaymar Johnson WR needed Wrs
    2007
    Adrian Peterson RB BPA
    Sidney Rice WR - Needed WR
    Marcus McCauley DB Need CBS
    Brian Robison DE Need PR
    It is possible for a need and best player available to coincide. And it's best player based on our teams board, their perceived value may be influenced by need to begin with.

    Either way, you can make anyone's draft board look like they're picking by need if you do it that way. I could just as easily say we picked by need on the Peterson selection too. Mewelde Moore had 130 yards in 2006, we needed a new backup RB. There, did it.
    Never said needs and BPA aren't truthful. But i can tell you most of those I selected were not th ebest player available.

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielmans Draft History

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1094288
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094193
    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1094164
    Lets see what Speilman can do with a "new" team around him.. His resume is definatly not good..
    Please don't take this as I'm sticking up for Ricky boy (as I'm sure bleed and Caine will) but give me a couple of other GM's you consider good at drafting.

    I will run up their picks and see if they get close to 50%ish.

    On a side note, anyone can give me a name or two, but if your going to do the research and see if he is better/worse than 50% just put it in here.

    (On a side note.....Props to Mr. A for the great idea. I think this can become a interesting thread as we look at what other GM's do, compared to what our VP of Player Personnel does).
    Didn't look like "sticking up for" anyone...looked like a list. That's it.

    One thing I question, however, is your criteria for "hit" or "Miss". IMO, just because a guy is in the NFL for 4 years doesn't make him a hit. No one drafts for roster filler...not intentionally.

    The real criteria should be if they became regular starters somewhere...even if it wasn't where they were drafted.

    For example: Jackson has been on the roster for 5 years...most of us don't consider him a "Hit" (Yes, I know he wasn't part of Spielman's group).

    Now, I grant you that that is a lot more research than your quick-list, but I believe that those results would be a far greater indicator of Rick's ability to spot legitimate NFL talent.

    Of course, that list would have to be split - to be fair, it would have to include his Miami and Minnesota years as separate events due to different Scout groups. But, since Rick used to be a scout, his ability to pull a winner from available data should be calculable.

    Also, Spielman was Miami's GM in '04...shouldn't those draftee's be included as well?

    Caine
    You don't like the criteria, you do it. :P

    On a side note, you should be able to tell how many of them are starters just by their names, unless of course the only players you follow are Vikings.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielmans Draft History

    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1094324
    I like this thread, but I would debate what is a hit or miss.

    It is tough to call someone like Jaymar Johnson a "miss" ... he simply wasn't a hit ... but when drafted I think most felt he had an outside shot of making any sort of an impact.

    Also ... Andrae Allison had some solid production for a year or two ... that is not really a "miss" in the fifth round.

    Definitely a tough thing to grade what a hit or miss is though.

    I would say ... he has shown success in picking in the first three rounds ... and that is where your money is made.
    I struggled with the "Hit and Miss" criteria with you in mind my friend.:laugh:

    Long story short, I think if you look at the mix of Allisons and backups that stuck for 6 years that most don't know, it kindof evens out a bit and was the best way to "Quickly" look at them.

    Truth be told, there were 3 or 4 in there that only stuck for a year or two that looked to be good players buth then suffered career ending injuries. Should they be a hit or a miss?

    Again, 4 years of production seemed about fair.

    What did you think about the point that I found........."He doesn't resign alot of his draft picks"? I found that more interesting than his success rate.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielmans Draft History

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1094332
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094328
    I will like to point out that we do not draft BPA. The only time we have done so was with AP. We Draft for need. time and time again.

    2010
    Chris Cook DB - Injuried Griffen
    Toby Gerhart RB - CT left
    Everson Griffin DE - Edwards FA
    Chris DeGeare G - No backup
    Nathan Triplett LB

    2009
    Percy Harvin WR Need Talent at the WR Position
    Phil Loadholt T Needed a new RT
    Asher Allen DB Need Cb
    Jasper Brinkley LB No backup MLB
    Jamarca Sanford DB Needed a safety

    2008
    Tyrell Johnson DB Needed a Safety to replace Sharper(aging)
    John David Booty QB - Needed a QB
    Letroy Guion DT - No Backup to Pat and Kevin
    John Sullivan C - Getting Ride of Birk
    Jaymar Johnson WR needed Wrs
    2007
    Adrian Peterson RB BPA
    Sidney Rice WR - Needed WR
    Marcus McCauley DB Need CBS
    Brian Robison DE Need PR
    It is possible for a need and best player available to coincide. And it's best player based on our teams board, their perceived value may be influenced by need to begin with.

    Either way, you can make anyone's draft board look like they're picking by need if you do it that way. I could just as easily say we picked by need on the Peterson selection too. Mewelde Moore had 130 yards in 2006, we needed a new backup RB. There, did it.
    I agree with Mr. A. You actually have to look at who was on the board at that given time to see if there was a player that could have been percieved to have been the better player available.

    Who was taken around Cook

    2 34 Chris Cook Vikings DB Virginia
    3 35 Brian Price Buccaneers DT UCLA
    4 36 Dexter McCluster Chiefs RB Mississippi
    5 37 Nate Allen Eagles DB South Florida
    6 38 T.J. Ward Browns DB Oregon
    7 39 Arrelious Benn Buccaneers WR Illinois
    8 40 Koa Misi Dolphins LB Utah
    9 41 Torrell Troup Bills DT Central Florida
    10 42 Rob Gronkowski Patriots TE Arizona
    11 43 Sergio Kindle Ravens LB Texas

    Looks the value, based on what other teams too wass a few DB's, a DT, a couple LB's and a WR.

    Who was around when Toby came off the board....

    19 51 Toby Gerhart Vikings RB Stanford
    20 52 Jason Worilds Steelers LB Virginia Tech
    21 53 Jermaine Cunningham Patriots LB Florida
    22 54 Carlos Dunlap Bengals DE Florida
    23 55 Sean Lee Cowboys LB Penn State
    24 56 Michael Neal Packers DT Purdue
    25 57 Terrence Cody Ravens DT Alabama
    26 58 Ben Tate Texans RB Auburn
    27 59 Montario Hardesty Browns RB Tennessee
    28 60 Golden Tate Seahawks WR Notre Dame
    29 61 Vladimir Ducasse Jets G Massachusetts

    LB'rs, DE, DT's, RB's, WR and a G.

    How about Griff.......

    2 100 Everson Griffin Vikings DE USC
    3 101 Mike Williams Buccaneers WR Syracuse
    4 102 Darryl Sharpton Texans LB Miami (FL)
    5 103 Perry Riley Redskins LB Louisiana State
    6 104 Alterraun Verner Titans DB UCLA
    7 105 Trevard Lindley Eagles DB Kentucky
    8 106 Bruce Campbell Raiders T Maryland
    9 107 Marcus Easley Bills WR Connecticut
    10 108 Jacoby Ford Raiders WR Clemson
    11 109 Corey Wootton Bears DE Northwestern
    12 110 Darrell Stuckey Chargers DB Kansas
    13 111 Walter Thurmond Seahawks DB Oregon
    14 112 Joe McKnight Jets RB USC

    Not sure about you, but after a quick look at it that way, atleast for those 3 players, it appears he might be taking BPA and that BPA might just also fill a need.

    (Info came from same link provided above.....Drafthistory.com)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #25
    skum's Avatar
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    Re: Spielmans Draft History

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094353
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1094332
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094328
    I will like to point out that we do not draft BPA. The only time we have done so was with AP. We Draft for need. time and time again.

    2010
    Chris Cook DB - Injuried Griffen
    Toby Gerhart RB - CT left
    Everson Griffin DE - Edwards FA
    Chris DeGeare G - No backup
    Nathan Triplett LB

    2009
    Percy Harvin WR Need Talent at the WR Position
    Phil Loadholt T Needed a new RT
    Asher Allen DB Need Cb
    Jasper Brinkley LB No backup MLB
    Jamarca Sanford DB Needed a safety

    2008
    Tyrell Johnson DB Needed a Safety to replace Sharper(aging)
    John David Booty QB - Needed a QB
    Letroy Guion DT - No Backup to Pat and Kevin
    John Sullivan C - Getting Ride of Birk
    Jaymar Johnson WR needed Wrs
    2007
    Adrian Peterson RB BPA
    Sidney Rice WR - Needed WR
    Marcus McCauley DB Need CBS
    Brian Robison DE Need PR
    It is possible for a need and best player available to coincide. And it's best player based on our teams board, their perceived value may be influenced by need to begin with.

    Either way, you can make anyone's draft board look like they're picking by need if you do it that way. I could just as easily say we picked by need on the Peterson selection too. Mewelde Moore had 130 yards in 2006, we needed a new backup RB. There, did it.
    I agree with Mr. A. You actually have to look at who was on the board at that given time to see if there was a player that could have been percieved to have been the better player available.

    Who was taken around Cook

    2 34 Chris Cook Vikings DB Virginia
    3 35 Brian Price Buccaneers DT UCLA
    4 36 Dexter McCluster Chiefs RB Mississippi
    5 37 Nate Allen Eagles DB South Florida
    6 38 T.J. Ward Browns DB Oregon
    7 39 Arrelious Benn Buccaneers WR Illinois
    8 40 Koa Misi Dolphins LB Utah
    9 41 Torrell Troup Bills DT Central Florida
    10 42 Rob Gronkowski Patriots TE Arizona
    11 43 Sergio Kindle Ravens LB Texas

    Looks the value, based on what other teams too wass a few DB's, a DT, a couple LB's and a WR.

    Who was around when Toby came off the board....

    19 51 Toby Gerhart Vikings RB Stanford
    20 52 Jason Worilds Steelers LB Virginia Tech
    21 53 Jermaine Cunningham Patriots LB Florida
    22 54 Carlos Dunlap Bengals DE Florida
    23 55 Sean Lee Cowboys LB Penn State
    24 56 Michael Neal Packers DT Purdue
    25 57 Terrence Cody Ravens DT Alabama
    26 58 Ben Tate Texans RB Auburn
    27 59 Montario Hardesty Browns RB Tennessee
    28 60 Golden Tate Seahawks WR Notre Dame
    29 61 Vladimir Ducasse Jets G Massachusetts

    LB'rs, DE, DT's, RB's, WR and a G.

    How about Griff.......

    2 100 Everson Griffin Vikings DE USC
    3 101 Mike Williams Buccaneers WR Syracuse
    4 102 Darryl Sharpton Texans LB Miami (FL)
    5 103 Perry Riley Redskins LB Louisiana State
    6 104 Alterraun Verner Titans DB UCLA
    7 105 Trevard Lindley Eagles DB Kentucky
    8 106 Bruce Campbell Raiders T Maryland
    9 107 Marcus Easley Bills WR Connecticut
    10 108 Jacoby Ford Raiders WR Clemson
    11 109 Corey Wootton Bears DE Northwestern
    12 110 Darrell Stuckey Chargers DB Kansas
    13 111 Walter Thurmond Seahawks DB Oregon
    14 112 Joe McKnight Jets RB USC

    Not sure about you, but after a quick look at it that way, atleast for those 3 players, it appears he might be taking BPA and that BPA might just also fill a need.

    (Info came from same link provided above.....Drafthistory.com)
    Thats a very hard asumption to make as every teams board is likely different it the way the players fit into their offense and defensive schemes.


    ----
    PUT IN JACKSON!

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielmans Draft History

    Quote Originally Posted by "skum" #1094356
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094353
    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1094332
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094328
    I will like to point out that we do not draft BPA. The only time we have done so was with AP. We Draft for need. time and time again.

    2010
    Chris Cook DB - Injuried Griffen
    Toby Gerhart RB - CT left
    Everson Griffin DE - Edwards FA
    Chris DeGeare G - No backup
    Nathan Triplett LB

    2009
    Percy Harvin WR Need Talent at the WR Position
    Phil Loadholt T Needed a new RT
    Asher Allen DB Need Cb
    Jasper Brinkley LB No backup MLB
    Jamarca Sanford DB Needed a safety

    2008
    Tyrell Johnson DB Needed a Safety to replace Sharper(aging)
    John David Booty QB - Needed a QB
    Letroy Guion DT - No Backup to Pat and Kevin
    John Sullivan C - Getting Ride of Birk
    Jaymar Johnson WR needed Wrs
    2007
    Adrian Peterson RB BPA
    Sidney Rice WR - Needed WR
    Marcus McCauley DB Need CBS
    Brian Robison DE Need PR
    It is possible for a need and best player available to coincide. And it's best player based on our teams board, their perceived value may be influenced by need to begin with.

    Either way, you can make anyone's draft board look like they're picking by need if you do it that way. I could just as easily say we picked by need on the Peterson selection too. Mewelde Moore had 130 yards in 2006, we needed a new backup RB. There, did it.
    I agree with Mr. A. You actually have to look at who was on the board at that given time to see if there was a player that could have been percieved to have been the better player available.

    Who was taken around Cook

    2 34 Chris Cook Vikings DB Virginia
    3 35 Brian Price Buccaneers DT UCLA
    4 36 Dexter McCluster Chiefs RB Mississippi
    5 37 Nate Allen Eagles DB South Florida
    6 38 T.J. Ward Browns DB Oregon
    7 39 Arrelious Benn Buccaneers WR Illinois
    8 40 Koa Misi Dolphins LB Utah
    9 41 Torrell Troup Bills DT Central Florida
    10 42 Rob Gronkowski Patriots TE Arizona
    11 43 Sergio Kindle Ravens LB Texas

    Looks the value, based on what other teams too wass a few DB's, a DT, a couple LB's and a WR.

    Who was around when Toby came off the board....

    19 51 Toby Gerhart Vikings RB Stanford
    20 52 Jason Worilds Steelers LB Virginia Tech
    21 53 Jermaine Cunningham Patriots LB Florida
    22 54 Carlos Dunlap Bengals DE Florida
    23 55 Sean Lee Cowboys LB Penn State
    24 56 Michael Neal Packers DT Purdue
    25 57 Terrence Cody Ravens DT Alabama
    26 58 Ben Tate Texans RB Auburn
    27 59 Montario Hardesty Browns RB Tennessee
    28 60 Golden Tate Seahawks WR Notre Dame
    29 61 Vladimir Ducasse Jets G Massachusetts

    LB'rs, DE, DT's, RB's, WR and a G.

    How about Griff.......

    2 100 Everson Griffin Vikings DE USC
    3 101 Mike Williams Buccaneers WR Syracuse
    4 102 Darryl Sharpton Texans LB Miami (FL)
    5 103 Perry Riley Redskins LB Louisiana State
    6 104 Alterraun Verner Titans DB UCLA
    7 105 Trevard Lindley Eagles DB Kentucky
    8 106 Bruce Campbell Raiders T Maryland
    9 107 Marcus Easley Bills WR Connecticut
    10 108 Jacoby Ford Raiders WR Clemson
    11 109 Corey Wootton Bears DE Northwestern
    12 110 Darrell Stuckey Chargers DB Kansas
    13 111 Walter Thurmond Seahawks DB Oregon
    14 112 Joe McKnight Jets RB USC

    Not sure about you, but after a quick look at it that way, atleast for those 3 players, it appears he might be taking BPA and that BPA might just also fill a need.

    (Info came from same link provided above.....Drafthistory.com)
    Thats a very hard asumption to make as every teams board is likely different it the way the players fit into their offense and defensive schemes.
    Your right, the only other way to show it would be to see what some of the big boards (like the one I used in my mock thread) had the players rated/projected at going.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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