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  1. #61
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092945
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092833
    I don't think Frazier is the kind of guy who will panic and reach for a guy who he isn't convinced is right for the team. And if they guy you want really fits what you are looking for it is hard to call it a reach no matter where you take him.
    I don't think Frazier has much of a say in it.
    This is gonna be Ricky boys draft.
    I think Frazier has a ton of say in who we pick! Sure, Spielman is going to do the whealing and dealing, but that those two, Studwell AND others will build our draft board by consensus! And then will, hopefully, for the most part, stick with the values!! Specially Early!

    I can't believe you just said that!? Are you still half asleep?


    So anyway, interesting article, but didn't think it really deserved its own thread...

    http://blog.vikings.com/2011/04/04/a-look-t-3-potential-trade-possibilities-in-the-draft/

    Interesting look...the draft is a crapshoot anyway, adding trades makes it more like the lotto, pretty good chance there nobody wins!

    The one thing I'm surprised he didn't mention, is trading up. According to the trade value chart, our 2nd is worth 470, so +1200 for our first gets us to the 6th pick, 30 short of the 5th, or giving up another pick (one of our 5ths.) Thats pretty much saying, this is the only guy we need to make our team better, cuz our next pick wouldn't be til the FOURTH!

    And, the fact remains that FOUR of the top Five teams also need a QB!! So, who's going to be there anyway?


    Couple of sidenotes:

    I keep hearing Denver say shit about, "don't rule out a QB," to the media, but I'm hoping those are smokescreens!! How friggin long can you allow yourself to be the worst run defense in the league!?? Don't they have to go with Dareus?

    But, perhaps, more importantly, IF DEN goes QB with the 2nd, how does that effect the trade values of Orton, Tebow, and Quinn??? My guess is they keep the vet: Orton. Neither of the other two look likely to help us now.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  2. #62
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "mountainviking" #1092998
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092945
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092833
    I don't think Frazier is the kind of guy who will panic and reach for a guy who he isn't convinced is right for the team. And if they guy you want really fits what you are looking for it is hard to call it a reach no matter where you take him.
    I don't think Frazier has much of a say in it.
    This is gonna be Ricky boys draft.
    I think Frazier has a ton of say in who we pick! Sure, Spielman is going to do the whealing and dealing, but that those two, Studwell AND others will build our draft board by consensus! And then will, hopefully, for the most part, stick with the values!! Specially Early!

    I can't believe you just said that!? Are you still half asleep?
    Nope, not asleep. :laugh:

    Two things, first, I don't think that the Chiller had as much say as some on here seem to think. I think he and the coaches helped in the rankings, but it was Spielman and the scouts who found the talent. The coaches just said that if push comes to shove, take this guy first, this guy second, this guy third.

    If there was a spot were the draft unfolded were 2 players were sitting there at equal value, I think Ricky boy ask the Chiller which one he wanted more, but thats about it.

    Second, I think Ricky has been around long enough, he knows what holes this team has so he and the scouts have a pretty good idea who/what they are looking for to fill those holes.

    Again, I think Leslie will have a say in how those players are ranked, but he won't do much more than that when it comes to the draft. It will be all Ricky boy as he moves about the board targeting players the organization thinks best fit the teams need.

    If they get to the point were they have 2 players of same value (much like the Chillers role) Leslie will get asked, but thats about it IMHO.


    So anyway, interesting article, but didn't think it really deserved its own thread...

    http://blog.vikings.com/2011/04/04/a-look-t-3-potential-trade-possibilities-in-the-draft/

    Interesting look...the draft is a crapshoot anyway, adding trades makes it more like the lotto, pretty good chance there nobody wins!

    The one thing I'm surprised he didn't mention, is trading up. According to the trade value chart, our 2nd is worth 470, so +1200 for our first gets us to the 6th pick, 30 short of the 5th, or giving up another pick (one of our 5ths.) Thats pretty much saying, this is the only guy we need to make our team better, cuz our next pick wouldn't be til the FOURTH!

    And, the fact remains that FOUR of the top Five teams also need a QB!! So, who's going to be there anyway?
    Nice article. Was listening to Kirwan and Ryan last night on the way home. One of the topics the discussed with a caller was what the Pats might do with all those picks.

    Based on what Kirwan thinks, the Pats might move up, but it won't be out of the top 10.

    Kirwan does think that the Pats will move up though and break the trend of trading down. Rationale is that we don't know what draft picks will be worth after this draft. The Pats know this and will be looking to unload picks (that might be worthless) as they target players that will fit their needs.

    If I was the Vikes, I wouldn't trade down at 12. I would take the QB you want and then try to move around the board with the picks you have left, but I definately wouldn't be looking for any trades that involved picks for next year or beyond.

    Couple of sidenotes:

    I keep hearing Denver say shit about, "don't rule out a QB," to the media, but I'm hoping those are smokescreens!! How friggin long can you allow yourself to be the worst run defense in the league!?? Don't they have to go with Dareus?

    But, perhaps, more importantly, IF DEN goes QB with the 2nd, how does that effect the trade values of Orton, Tebow, and Quinn??? My guess is they keep the vet: Orton. Neither of the other two look likely to help us now.
    Thats what happens when a new regime takes over. A QB that was liked by one staff can instantly not be liked by the next staff.

    On a side, but related to your discussion note, I have the Broncos going DT, DE, OT, RB, MLB, OLB in that order.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #63
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    I really can't see the NFL not having a draft in the future. Both sides know that the formula the NFL has established works. I think it's in the league and players best interest to keep the league as competitive as possible. The draft is a huge part of that.

    I don't see the pats moving up. I could see them trading for picks in next years draft, because teams will value those picks less the Pats will continue to get stronger(always seem to be looking 5 years ahead). If he's available I could see the Pats picking up Mallett to be Brady's backup at the end of the first or early in the second.

    I hope Spielman has the final say in the draft room. The head coaches main job should be coaching, discipline and dealing with the media.Rick is paid nicely to bring in the personnel, let him do his job.

  4. #64
    b_sandhar_29 is offline Starter
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1093099
    I really can't see the NFL not having a draft in the future. Both sides know that the formula the NFL has established works. I think it's in the league and players best interest to keep the league as competitive as possible. The draft is a huge part of that.

    I don't see the pats moving up. I could see them trading for picks in next years draft, because teams will value those picks less the Pats will continue to get stronger(always seem to be looking 5 years ahead). If he's available I could see the Pats picking up Mallett to be Brady's backup at the end of the first or early in the second.

    I hope Spielman has the final say in the draft room. The head coaches main job should be coaching, discipline and dealing with the media.Rick is paid nicely to bring in the personnel, let him do his job.


    Exactly what I think!
    None

  5. #65
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1093099
    I really can't see the NFL not having a draft in the future. Both sides know that the formula the NFL has established works. I think it's in the league and players best interest to keep the league as competitive as possible. The draft is a huge part of that.

    I don't see the pats moving up. I could see them trading for picks in next years draft, because teams will value those picks less the Pats will continue to get stronger(always seem to be looking 5 years ahead). If he's available I could see the Pats picking up Mallett to be Brady's backup at the end of the first or early in the second.

    I hope Spielman has the final say in the draft room. The head coaches main job should be coaching, discipline and dealing with the media.Rick is paid nicely to bring in the personnel, let him do his job.
    Post of the day.

    Only thing is, I can see the Pats moving up this year. They have way to many picks. At some point they have to use them. I think this is the year we will see that movement.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #66
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "b_sandhar_29" #1093100
    Exactly what I think!
    I'm starting to warm to you my friend. Just bumped you a few notches on the ole spreadsheet.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #67
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093110
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1093099
    I really can't see the NFL not having a draft in the future. Both sides know that the formula the NFL has established works. I think it's in the league and players best interest to keep the league as competitive as possible. The draft is a huge part of that.

    I don't see the pats moving up. I could see them trading for picks in next years draft, because teams will value those picks less the Pats will continue to get stronger(always seem to be looking 5 years ahead). If he's available I could see the Pats picking up Mallett to be Brady's backup at the end of the first or early in the second.

    I hope Spielman has the final say in the draft room. The head coaches main job should be coaching, discipline and dealing with the media.Rick is paid nicely to bring in the personnel, let him do his job.
    Post of the day.

    Only thing is, I can see the Pats moving up this year. They have way to many picks. At some point they have to use them. I think this is the year we will see that movement.
    You think so?

    they have the following picks:

    1st Round – #17 (OAK – Richard Seymour)
    1st Round – #28
    2nd Round – #33 (CAR – 2010 3rd Round) (holy steal)
    2nd Round – #60
    3rd Round – #74 (MIN – Randy Moss)
    3rd Round – #92
    4th Round – #125
    5th Round – #159
    6th Round – #193 (NO – David Thomas)

    Why wouldn't they use both their 1sts to try and get two quality players? They don't NEED anything, I could see them moving up from 28 possibly a bit, combining a 2nd or a third or something, but with what they have, they could easily find themselves 3+ GOOD players. They're not usually the type to get caught up in the hype of players and waste picks to snag the big-name guy. I'm willing to bet they're extremely comfortable with where they're currently at, and we'll see some movement in the 2nd and on from them.

  8. #68
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093117
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093110
    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1093099
    I really can't see the NFL not having a draft in the future. Both sides know that the formula the NFL has established works. I think it's in the league and players best interest to keep the league as competitive as possible. The draft is a huge part of that.

    I don't see the pats moving up. I could see them trading for picks in next years draft, because teams will value those picks less the Pats will continue to get stronger(always seem to be looking 5 years ahead). If he's available I could see the Pats picking up Mallett to be Brady's backup at the end of the first or early in the second.

    I hope Spielman has the final say in the draft room. The head coaches main job should be coaching, discipline and dealing with the media.Rick is paid nicely to bring in the personnel, let him do his job.
    Post of the day.

    Only thing is, I can see the Pats moving up this year. They have way to many picks. At some point they have to use them. I think this is the year we will see that movement.
    You think so?

    they have the following picks:

    1st Round – #17 (OAK – Richard Seymour)
    1st Round – #28
    2nd Round – #33 (CAR – 2010 3rd Round) (holy steal)
    2nd Round – #60
    3rd Round – #74 (MIN – Randy Moss)
    3rd Round – #92
    4th Round – #125
    5th Round – #159
    6th Round – #193 (NO – David Thomas)

    Why wouldn't they use both their 1sts to try and get two quality players? They don't NEED anything, I could see them moving up from 28 possibly a bit, combining a 2nd or a third or something, but with what they have, they could easily find themselves 3+ GOOD players. They're not usually the type to get caught up in the hype of players and waste picks to snag the big-name guy. I'm willing to bet they're extremely comfortable with where they're currently at, and we'll see some movement in the 2nd and on from them.
    I'm not saying they wouldn't try to use both picks. They could, if they felt that the draft would fall to them the way they want it to.

    It isn't like they would be trying to make a big splash. It would be wise drafting to go after players you know that not only fit your scheme, but will/would make your team.

    Again, they could do that by sitting still and waiting or being aggressive and going out and getting the guy they want.

    Because they have the picks, they have the lattitude to do what ever they want based on how they think the draft will fall.

    By the way, thats the real crapshoot of the draft.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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