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  1. #51
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    I don't think Frazier is the kind of guy who will panic and reach for a guy who he isn't convinced is right for the team. And if they guy you want really fits what you are looking for it is hard to call it a reach no matter where you take him.

  2. #52
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092831
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092827
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092813
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092667
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092644
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092627
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1092625
    It doesn't surprise me. In fact It echoes what I've already said & that was that the Vikings won't draft a QB in the first, just for the sake of a drafting a QB.

    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him.

    I highly doubt they would pass up the BPA at pick 12, to prematurel7y select the next best QB in the draft, if he's projected to go much later than 12th.
    QUOTE
    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him

    Probably don't need to be in the inner circle to figure that one out!

    I don't highly doubt anything after watching them drop back to take Cook last year, then waste an extra draft pick on a backup running back.

    I agree with you, I want BPA at 12. But I will not be the least bit surprised if they reach for a QB.
    If they don't resign AD will the Gerhart pick be a backup pick or a future starter pick?
    If ? Is that the same if as used in the sentence, If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle?

    How about a fact for a change. Gerhart was picked as replcement for Chester Taylor which made him a backup and sometimes third down back.
    I'm not against picking the player. But do you really feel he was worth 2 draft picks? Really?

    If you want to play the if game, I will say he will not be the starter, we will draft someone better.Unlike QB's,good running backs can be found throughout the draft.
    But FO pukes have to play the "What If" game, especially when it comes to the draft.

    Watch teams like the Steelers, Pats etc, as they draft. They draft potential replacements for starters, not starters.

    Reason for that, they draft potential replacements for starters. When a starter leaves that potential guy has had a couple/three years to get ready and steps right in.
    I think his point was Toby will never be that guy who steps in and starts much like Jackson ended up not being a guy who could ever step in and start and those are not the guys you want to use multiple picks to reach and grab. Especially when they are slated to be around at a later pick. And if they are gone by then it was not a big loss.
    That makes sense. It isn't like I haven't missed Docs point at one time or another. :laugh:
    That's precisely my point. Don't move up in the draft unless the player is someone exceptional. It's just too costly. You are giving up another player whenever you move up and gaining another player when you move down.

    If you are looking for backups you are better served to move down and pick up another player as well. Then you can try to find someone with a high ceiling and coach him up. If it doesn't work out it's not as big of a loss.

    It's not a knock on Toby, it's a knock on the Spielman and staff. They cannot foolishly waste picks and expect to be successful.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  3. #53
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092835
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092831
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092827
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092813
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092667
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092644
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092627
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1092625
    It doesn't surprise me. In fact It echoes what I've already said & that was that the Vikings won't draft a QB in the first, just for the sake of a drafting a QB.

    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him.

    I highly doubt they would pass up the BPA at pick 12, to prematurel7y select the next best QB in the draft, if he's projected to go much later than 12th.
    QUOTE
    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him

    Probably don't need to be in the inner circle to figure that one out!

    I don't highly doubt anything after watching them drop back to take Cook last year, then waste an extra draft pick on a backup running back.

    I agree with you, I want BPA at 12. But I will not be the least bit surprised if they reach for a QB.
    If they don't resign AD will the Gerhart pick be a backup pick or a future starter pick?
    If ? Is that the same if as used in the sentence, If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle?

    How about a fact for a change. Gerhart was picked as replcement for Chester Taylor which made him a backup and sometimes third down back.
    I'm not against picking the player. But do you really feel he was worth 2 draft picks? Really?

    If you want to play the if game, I will say he will not be the starter, we will draft someone better.Unlike QB's,good running backs can be found throughout the draft.
    But FO pukes have to play the "What If" game, especially when it comes to the draft.

    Watch teams like the Steelers, Pats etc, as they draft. They draft potential replacements for starters, not starters.

    Reason for that, they draft potential replacements for starters. When a starter leaves that potential guy has had a couple/three years to get ready and steps right in.
    I think his point was Toby will never be that guy who steps in and starts much like Jackson ended up not being a guy who could ever step in and start and those are not the guys you want to use multiple picks to reach and grab. Especially when they are slated to be around at a later pick. And if they are gone by then it was not a big loss.
    That makes sense. It isn't like I haven't missed Docs point at one time or another. :laugh:
    That's precisely my point. Don't move up in the draft unless the player is someone exceptional. It's just too costly. You are giving up another player whenever you move up and gaining another player when you move down.

    If you are looking for backups you are better served to move down and pick up another player as well. Then you can try to find someone with a high ceiling and coach him up. If it doesn't work out it's not as big of a loss.

    It's not a knock on Toby, it's a knock on the Spielman and staff. They cannot foolishly waste picks and expect to be successful.
    Top shelf my friend. Moving northward on the old spreadsheet every day.

  4. #54
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092835
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092831
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092827
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092813
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092667
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092644
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092627
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1092625
    It doesn't surprise me. In fact It echoes what I've already said & that was that the Vikings won't draft a QB in the first, just for the sake of a drafting a QB.

    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him.

    I highly doubt they would pass up the BPA at pick 12, to prematurel7y select the next best QB in the draft, if he's projected to go much later than 12th.
    QUOTE
    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him

    Probably don't need to be in the inner circle to figure that one out!

    I don't highly doubt anything after watching them drop back to take Cook last year, then waste an extra draft pick on a backup running back.

    I agree with you, I want BPA at 12. But I will not be the least bit surprised if they reach for a QB.
    If they don't resign AD will the Gerhart pick be a backup pick or a future starter pick?
    If ? Is that the same if as used in the sentence, If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle?

    How about a fact for a change. Gerhart was picked as replcement for Chester Taylor which made him a backup and sometimes third down back.
    I'm not against picking the player. But do you really feel he was worth 2 draft picks? Really?

    If you want to play the if game, I will say he will not be the starter, we will draft someone better.Unlike QB's,good running backs can be found throughout the draft.
    But FO pukes have to play the "What If" game, especially when it comes to the draft.

    Watch teams like the Steelers, Pats etc, as they draft. They draft potential replacements for starters, not starters.

    Reason for that, they draft potential replacements for starters. When a starter leaves that potential guy has had a couple/three years to get ready and steps right in.
    I think his point was Toby will never be that guy who steps in and starts much like Jackson ended up not being a guy who could ever step in and start and those are not the guys you want to use multiple picks to reach and grab. Especially when they are slated to be around at a later pick. And if they are gone by then it was not a big loss.
    That makes sense. It isn't like I haven't missed Docs point at one time or another. :laugh:
    That's precisely my point. Don't move up in the draft unless the player is someone exceptional. It's just too costly. You are giving up another player whenever you move up and gaining another player when you move down.

    If you are looking for backups you are better served to move down and pick up another player as well. Then you can try to find someone with a high ceiling and coach him up. If it doesn't work out it's not as big of a loss.

    It's not a knock on Toby, it's a knock on the Spielman and staff. They cannot foolishly waste picks and expect to be successful.
    I think you have to look at it as they spent the 51st pick in the draft. If that is too early, then yes its a bad pick. The fact they traded up to that spot makes no difference to me. The two picks were worth the same as the 51st according to the chart.
    Essentially every pick made costs two picks because you could move back and got an extra pick.

  5. #55
    TheAnimal93 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Wouldnt it be the pick of the century if the Vikes could pull off drafting Patrick Petersen? No other player really excites me in this draft. I am sure there are plenty of winners here, but who really has stood out more?

  6. #56
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092833
    I don't think Frazier is the kind of guy who will panic and reach for a guy who he isn't convinced is right for the team. And if they guy you want really fits what you are looking for it is hard to call it a reach no matter where you take him.
    I don't think Frazier has much of a say in it.

    This is gonna be Ricky boys draft.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #57
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092835
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092831
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1092827
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092813
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092667
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092644
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092627
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1092625
    It doesn't surprise me. In fact It echoes what I've already said & that was that the Vikings won't draft a QB in the first, just for the sake of a drafting a QB.

    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him.

    I highly doubt they would pass up the BPA at pick 12, to prematurel7y select the next best QB in the draft, if he's projected to go much later than 12th.
    QUOTE
    If one of the top QB's remarkably happens to fall to them in the first at the 12th slot, then they probably take him

    Probably don't need to be in the inner circle to figure that one out!

    I don't highly doubt anything after watching them drop back to take Cook last year, then waste an extra draft pick on a backup running back.

    I agree with you, I want BPA at 12. But I will not be the least bit surprised if they reach for a QB.
    If they don't resign AD will the Gerhart pick be a backup pick or a future starter pick?
    If ? Is that the same if as used in the sentence, If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle?

    How about a fact for a change. Gerhart was picked as replcement for Chester Taylor which made him a backup and sometimes third down back.
    I'm not against picking the player. But do you really feel he was worth 2 draft picks? Really?

    If you want to play the if game, I will say he will not be the starter, we will draft someone better.Unlike QB's,good running backs can be found throughout the draft.
    But FO pukes have to play the "What If" game, especially when it comes to the draft.

    Watch teams like the Steelers, Pats etc, as they draft. They draft potential replacements for starters, not starters.

    Reason for that, they draft potential replacements for starters. When a starter leaves that potential guy has had a couple/three years to get ready and steps right in.
    I think his point was Toby will never be that guy who steps in and starts much like Jackson ended up not being a guy who could ever step in and start and those are not the guys you want to use multiple picks to reach and grab. Especially when they are slated to be around at a later pick. And if they are gone by then it was not a big loss.
    That makes sense. It isn't like I haven't missed Docs point at one time or another. :laugh:
    That's precisely my point. Don't move up in the draft unless the player is someone exceptional. It's just too costly. You are giving up another player whenever you move up and gaining another player when you move down.

    If you are looking for backups you are better served to move down and pick up another player as well. Then you can try to find someone with a high ceiling and coach him up. If it doesn't work out it's not as big of a loss.

    It's not a knock on Toby, it's a knock on the Spielman and staff. They cannot foolishly waste picks and expect to be successful.
    Gotcha and agree.

    On a side note, and my point of discussion, Toby was picked as an insurance policy if they can't resign AD this year.

    Doesn't mean I think Toby is on par with AD. I don't think we will see another AD for a few years, but he can be a good starting QB based on the progress we saw last year.

    If that is the case, then there wasn't a wasted pick as he wasn't picked to be just a backup.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #58
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "jmcdon00" #1092839
    I think you have to look at it as they spent the 51st pick in the draft. If that is too early, then yes its a bad pick. The fact they traded up to that spot makes no difference to me. The two picks were worth the same as the 51st according to the chart.
    Essentially every pick made costs two picks because you could move back and got an extra pick.
    I agree with your rationale as well.

    Truth of the matter is, last year we weren't forced to draft players that could step on the field and start right away.

    Damn near every starters position was sealed going into last year with very few roster spots open for rooks to get on.

    Moving about the board and burning two picks for the cat that fits your scheme is a good thing. Makes alot more sense to target 3 or 4 guys you know have a good shot at making the roster than sticking were you pick and just taking the BPA at that spot. Especially if that BPA is a guy who not only has a long term starter in front of him but a backup as well.

    Again,not trying to take away from Docs discussion point as it makes sense. But I believe this team wasn't looking for starters last year and if they can straighten out some contract stuff, shouldn't be looking for to many starters this year.......

    Positions that could start as rooks......

    a. QB - No option
    b. DT - No option
    c. LB if they don't resign Erin (which they should). Don't forget Jasper.
    d. S if they don't resign Hussain (which they should)
    e. C if they don't like Sully in the new blocking scheme. All indicators are they do.
    f. WR if they don't resign Rice (which they should)
    g. LDE if they don't like Griff to start taking more reps in his second year (which they should)
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #59
    AngloVike's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092946

    On a side note, and my point of discussion, Toby was picked as an insurance policy if they can't resign AD this year.

    Doesn't mean I think Toby is on par with AD. I don't think we will see another AD for a few years, but he can be a good starting QB based on the progress we saw last year.

    If that is the case, then there wasn't a wasted pick as he wasn't picked to be just a backup.
    so are you starting the 'Webb/Drafted 2011 QB (insert name here ) sucks at QB ' thread already !!!
    So the secret is out - Toby Gerhart is new starting QB for the Vikes.. how did you miss that little gem Childress? :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


  10. #60
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman shying away from QBs in the first???

    [quote="AngloVike" #1092949]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092946
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1092835

    On a side note, and my point of discussion, Toby was picked as an insurance policy if they can't resign AD this year.

    Doesn't mean I think Toby is on par with AD. I don't think we will see another AD for a few years, but he can be a good starting QB based on the progress we saw last year.

    If that is the case, then there wasn't a wasted pick as he wasn't picked to be just a backup.
    so are you starting the 'Webb/Drafted 2011 QB (insert name here ) sucks at QB ' thread already !!!
    So the secret is out - Toby Gerhart is new starting QB for the Vikes.. how did you miss that little gem Childress? :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
    LOL, good catch my friend. I guess I need to have someone start spell checking my posts.....:laugh:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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