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  1. #11
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman Showed Extra Interest During Weber Workou

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093977
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1093936
    I have a sad feeling that our Woes at QB will not be fixed this year, and it will be due to lack of trying.

    I'm going to call it now, it's a hunch, but I think Spielman is just as much to blame as Childress for not fixing the QB situation.

    Yes, Childress had the final say in some matters, but I truly do believe that Childress's stubbornness and stupid points of view have rubbed off on Spielman.
    Such a pessimist and one full of wild theories.

    Now we will suck at drafting cause some of the Chiller rubbed on on Spielman. We won't fix the QB positition cause no one is trying. WOW.
    Oh, and so much wilder than anything you come up with?

    Look, I blame Spielman more for the lack of talent at the QB position than I do the Chiller, mostly cause thats his area to address.....Finding and adding talent that the staff ask for.

    What I don't blame him for was the lack of options in finding a solution at that area.
    Oh boy, here we go again

    I know most of you get tired of hearing me say this, however, up until recently there just hasn't been many options with guys like Sage being the best out there.
    Ah, there it is

    Don't agree with me, as always, I challenge you to tell me who was available that we should have went after.
    I'm not going to do that because both Caine and I have done it many, many times. You choose to ignore it and pretend Carr was the best option on the list. Just because a player didn't pan out doesn't mean we shouldn't have made an attempt at it. If we draft somebody and he busts, whatever. We didn't even try. We could have had Leinart or Cutler, We could have had Schaub or Cutler again. Yeah, the price was high, but sometimes that's the price you pay for getting a good player. We didn't entertain the thought of acquiring a real QB, because there was no hurry.

    By the way, the same scenario as Schaub is out there with Kolb. How many of you want to give up 2 or 3 picks for him?
    Depends on the picks. I felt better about Schaub than I do about Kolb, so it really depends on the asking price
    Fact is, Spielman has never really been successful anywhere. He was responsible for the 1-15 Dolphins. he never addressed the QB problem there, then he comes here, and what do we do? Draft guys like Booty and Webb, sign studs like Sage, Holcomb and Bollinger.
    Who would have you brought in? Lets not forget, he was the man when the Noodle showed up. Doesn't the Noodle count?
    LOL Do you really think he had anything to do with that? Favre said multiple times a huge reason he came was because he knew a few of the coaches and Chilly kept badgering him. You NEVER heard anything about Spielman doing anything except making him sign a contract maybe. He was probably too busy being excited at the fact he finally traded for a QB that wasn't a complete waste of a roster spot. (only mostly a waste)
    From quotes from Fraizer, he wants to get a top-flight QB. He wants that franchise player, but I don't think Fraizer has nearly the power Childress had in the organization. I think this year Spielman will be calling most of the shots, and we're going to draft DE or something stupid in the first, and get a "sleeper" and be disappointed for another four years.
    And yet the owner, Leslie and Spielman all say the same power structure is in place.
    Yeah, the same guys, believe what you will, but I bet you Wilf doesn't give Leslie nearly the control Chilly had. That backfired in his face and he's not dumb enough to let it happen again.
    Our key players like Peterson, Greenway and Rice will all leave and we'll be left here wondering what the hell happened. Fraizer will get fired, but Spielman will stick around and ruin the team even more if possible.
    Guess what, guys like Eller, Page, Del Rio, Tarkington, Randall, Smith, McDaniel, etc etc etc have all moved on and have been replaced by guys like Peterson, Greenway, Rice etc etc etc.
    Glad you mentioned that.

    Eller - left after 14 years
    Page - left after 11 years
    Del rio - Bounced around the league his whole career, only spend 4 years in minny, and that was his fourth stop out of five.
    Tarkenton - spent 12 years as a viking, not including the years he was traded away (you know, traded so we got compensation)
    Randall - Spent 10 years as a Viking
    Smith - Retired as a VIking after a successful 8 years
    McDaniel - Left after 11 years.

    All of those guys played here for a while, and left their mark. They were let go because they were old. Their time had come.

    AP, Greenway, Rice, etc. are coming off their first contracts, averaging about 4-5 years of service for us. Only Greenway has expressed an interest in returning. Doesn't that tell you anything?

    Yes I realize the NFL has changed with free agency coming, but good teams with good structures seem to have their players WANT to return. Two of our starters seem to not want to be here.


    Like it or not, its what makes the game great. Someone leaves and a new star is born.
    Ah, just like when Sanders left the Lions?
    49ers have been so great since TO left
    sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Know why some teams are consistantly championship contenders? They retain their core players, and groom backups to replace him. If we lose Ben AND Greenway, what do we do? If we lose Rice, what do we do? If we lose AP, what do we do? The backups are significantly worse thatn what we have. In AP's case, it will be hard to replace him, but LB, DT, etc. not as much.
    So ultimately, fire Wilf.

    just my opinion.
    How in the hell do you fire an owner. Wait, I know, you refuse to build him a stadium and he moves the team. Then you won't have to worry about finding a QB.
    Down boy! I should have included some smilies for you.... here you go

    :silly: :woohoo: :side: :evil:
    Want my opinion?

    This draft class has 8 damn fine QB's in it.
    Gonna stop you right there just to say........ If you insist
    We will get one of them.
    Spielman's track record says otherwise, but continue
    There are 2 good FA's available, when the CBA thing gets straightened out (not Spielmans fault)
    Nah, that's Childresses fault
    we will probably make a good run at one of them if we don't get one of those 8 QB's and young Joe has shown some flash so it isn't like he isn't void of talent.
    It also isn't like he's going to lead this team to victory. Worst case scenario he's TJ 2.3, best case he manages the game, throwing about 2700 yards, 17-20 td's and under 20 int's. We lean on AD (wait a minute, we can't do that can we...) and squeak out 8-8. Joe has some talent, and he can do things TJ couldn't, but he's still very young and raw. You thought the playbook was dumbed down for TJ, I'd imagine it's even moreso for Webb. Webb has never had to properly read a defense, nor play against the talent he sees in the NFL. He has to basically learn how to play the position. Not an easy task for a young kid out of a DI-AA school. that takes time, and unfortunately, we didn't give him that time. One thing I do like, is he seems much more composed than TJ ever did. He seems to enjoy being rushed at, whereas TJ panics and gets sacked.

    Why not have some patience with the whole process and see what we have after the season starts before you start to jump off the bridge my friend.

    Picture says 1000 words.

  2. #12
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    Re: Spielman Showed Extra Interest During Weber Workou

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093928
    Quarterback A: 57.0% Completion Rate, 72 TDs, 51 Interceptions, 99 times sacked, 123.1 Passer Rating. Record as a Starter: 17 Wins & 33 Losses.
    Quarterback B: 53.9% Completion Rate, 53 TDs, 35 Interceptions, 74 times sacked, 119.1 Passer Rating. Record as a Starter: 15 Wins & 25 Losses.
    Onto their scouting reports, here is how they read …
    Quarterback A: Tough, hard-working player respected throughout conference. Quick, over-the-top delivery. Nice spiral. Good footwork, well balanced in pocket. Has mobility out of pocket and can pick up first downs on his feet. Has experience playing in tough weather conditions. Experience versus top-notch competition. … Below average height for ideal NFL QB. Mediocre accuracy, struggles to fit ball in tight spaces. Needs to do better job of securing ball.
    Quarterback B: Tough and fearless player. Smart, hard working and team leader. Has good mobility and can throw on the run. Great height and ideal bulk for QB position. Able to adjust to bad weather conditions. Played in a BCS conference and has experience playing a marquee opponent each weak. … Accuracy is a major concern and question remains if that will ever improve. Needs work developing as a pocket passer. Questionable decision making at times.
    So who’s who? Anyone, anyone (as Ben Stein said in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off)…
    Adam Weber vs Jake Locker – Can You Pass The Eyeball Test?
    Tells me we don't want either.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  3. #13
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Spielman Showed Extra Interest During Weber Workou

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094003
    Oh, and so much wilder than anything you come up with?
    LOL, mine aren't wild. They are just mine. B)

    I'm not going to do that because both Caine and I have done it many, many times. You choose to ignore it and pretend Carr was the best option on the list. Just because a player didn't pan out doesn't mean we shouldn't have made an attempt at it. If we draft somebody and he busts, whatever. We didn't even try. We could have had Leinart or Cutler, We could have had Schaub or Cutler again. Yeah, the price was high, but sometimes that's the price you pay for getting a good player. We didn't entertain the thought of acquiring a real QB, because there was no hurry.
    Nope, I don't ignore those options. I have acknowledged them and then in return asked, what has Lienart done that is better that TJ or any of the QB's the staff has brought in.

    NOTHING.......neaner neaner neaner.

    I do agree with you on Cutler though. We have had 2 shots to get him. Both times the staff failed and I have been the most vocal (not you and Caine my friend) about it.

    Again, to date, and I can pull up the threads, Carr is the best you could come up with. :P

    LOL Do you really think he had anything to do with that? Favre said multiple times a huge reason he came was because he knew a few of the coaches and Chilly kept badgering him. You NEVER heard anything about Spielman doing anything except making him sign a contract maybe. He was probably too busy being excited at the fact he finally traded for a QB that wasn't a complete waste of a roster spot. (only mostly a waste)
    Wait a minute wait a minute. Now the Chiller brought in the Noodle? I'm confused. I thought he was tied to the hip with TJ and refused to bring in anyone to compete with TJ.

    What am I missing here? :huh: :lol: :whistle:

    Yeah, the same guys, believe what you will, but I bet you Wilf doesn't give Leslie nearly the control Chilly had. That backfired in his face and he's not dumb enough to let it happen again.
    I agree, but that was a decision related to a player that was already on the 53 man roster.

    Has no impact on the decision process the staff follows to get them on the 53 man roster.

    Glad you mentioned that.

    Eller - left after 14 years
    Page - left after 11 years
    Del rio - Bounced around the league his whole career, only spend 4 years in minny, and that was his fourth stop out of five.
    Tarkenton - spent 12 years as a viking, not including the years he was traded away (you know, traded so we got compensation)
    Randall - Spent 10 years as a Viking
    Smith - Retired as a VIking after a successful 8 years
    McDaniel - Left after 11 years.

    All of those guys played here for a while, and left their mark. They were let go because they were old. Their time had come.

    AP, Greenway, Rice, etc. are coming off their first contracts, averaging about 4-5 years of service for us. Only Greenway has expressed an interest in returning. Doesn't that tell you anything?

    Yes I realize the NFL has changed with free agency coming, but good teams with good structures seem to have their players WANT to return. Two of our starters seem to not want to be here.
    Good point about were the players are at in their career and a nice move to cover your six about the FA thing.

    Only issue I have is related to the "Good teams" comment.

    Good teams have consistency at the top so that teams aren't completely trying to re-invent themselves every 4 to 6 years. Alas, we are back at that point to a certain extent. Good thing out of all of this is Leslie provides some sort of stability as he was on the staff already.

    Ah, just like when Sanders left the Lions?
    49ers have been so great since TO left
    sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Know why some teams are consistantly championship contenders? They retain their core players, and groom backups to replace him. If we lose Ben AND Greenway, what do we do? If we lose Rice, what do we do? If we lose AP, what do we do? The backups are significantly worse thatn what we have. In AP's case, it will be hard to replace him, but LB, DT, etc. not as much.
    We get someone else. Just the way it works.


    Gonna stop you right there just to say........ If you insist
    We will get one of them.
    Spielman's track record says otherwise, but continue
    There are 2 good FA's available, when the CBA thing gets straightened out (not Spielmans fault)
    Nah, that's Childresses fault
    we will probably make a good run at one of them if we don't get one of those 8 QB's and young Joe has shown some flash so it isn't like he isn't void of talent.
    It also isn't like he's going to lead this team to victory. Worst case scenario he's TJ 2.3, best case he manages the game, throwing about 2700 yards, 17-20 td's and under 20 int's. We lean on AD (wait a minute, we can't do that can we...) and squeak out 8-8. Joe has some talent, and he can do things TJ couldn't, but he's still very young and raw. You thought the playbook was dumbed down for TJ, I'd imagine it's even moreso for Webb. Webb has never had to properly read a defense, nor play against the talent he sees in the NFL. He has to basically learn how to play the position. Not an easy task for a young kid out of a DI-AA school. that takes time, and unfortunately, we didn't give him that time. One thing I do like, is he seems much more composed than TJ ever did. He seems to enjoy being rushed at, whereas TJ panics and gets sacked.
    LOL, Webb needs time. I wonder when he will run out of time. Judging by your intitial commment, he already has.

    On a side note, how come you make so damn many quotes.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #14
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Spielman Showed Extra Interest During Weber Workou

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094038
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094003
    Oh, and so much wilder than anything you come up with?
    LOL, mine aren't wild. They are just mine. B)

    I'm not going to do that because both Caine and I have done it many, many times. You choose to ignore it and pretend Carr was the best option on the list. Just because a player didn't pan out doesn't mean we shouldn't have made an attempt at it. If we draft somebody and he busts, whatever. We didn't even try. We could have had Leinart or Cutler, We could have had Schaub or Cutler again. Yeah, the price was high, but sometimes that's the price you pay for getting a good player. We didn't entertain the thought of acquiring a real QB, because there was no hurry.
    Nope, I don't ignore those options. I have acknowledged them and then in return asked, what has Lienart done that is better that TJ or any of the QB's the staff has brought in.

    NOTHING.......neaner neaner neaner.
    That's irrelevant to the point I'm making. You're looking at it in hindsight. It's easy to say now "that player would have been a waste of a pick". But we never really even gave a player a shot. Who knows, maybe Leinart works out here, you never know. The thing is we never tried. We didn't swing and miss, we stood at the plate and watched three strikes whiz by. I'd rather try and come up short, than don't even bother.
    I do agree with you on Cutler though. We have had 2 shots to get him. Both times the staff failed and I have been the most vocal (not you and Caine my friend) about it.

    Again, to date, and I can pull up the threads, Carr is the best you could come up with. :P
    No, it's the best we come up with out of players you don't automatically dismiss as unattainable.
    LOL Do you really think he had anything to do with that? Favre said multiple times a huge reason he came was because he knew a few of the coaches and Chilly kept badgering him. You NEVER heard anything about Spielman doing anything except making him sign a contract maybe. He was probably too busy being excited at the fact he finally traded for a QB that wasn't a complete waste of a roster spot. (only mostly a waste)
    Wait a minute wait a minute. Now the Chiller brought in the Noodle? I'm confused. I thought he was tied to the hip with TJ and refused to bring in anyone to compete with TJ.
    Ok then, who brought in Favre? Who was it who reportedly kept talking with Favre? Who was it they claim that cold-called Favre and got him to sign? I believe Bevell almost got us in trouble for tampering, but Acquiring Favre was a big Chilly move.
    What am I missing here? :huh: :lol: :whistle:
    Apparantly quite a bit
    Yeah, the same guys, believe what you will, but I bet you Wilf doesn't give Leslie nearly the control Chilly had. That backfired in his face and he's not dumb enough to let it happen again.
    I agree, but that was a decision related to a player that was already on the 53 man roster.

    Has no impact on the decision process the staff follows to get them on the 53 man roster.
    This time last year you were arguing that Chilly didn't have the power to release anybody without the nod from the other two, Now that that's proven wrong, you're saying CHilly doesn't have the power to bring anybody on his own? We don't know if that's correct or not, but I'm willing to bet he had the ability.
    Glad you mentioned that.

    Eller - left after 14 years
    Page - left after 11 years
    Del rio - Bounced around the league his whole career, only spend 4 years in minny, and that was his fourth stop out of five.
    Tarkenton - spent 12 years as a viking, not including the years he was traded away (you know, traded so we got compensation)
    Randall - Spent 10 years as a Viking
    Smith - Retired as a VIking after a successful 8 years
    McDaniel - Left after 11 years.

    All of those guys played here for a while, and left their mark. They were let go because they were old. Their time had come.

    AP, Greenway, Rice, etc. are coming off their first contracts, averaging about 4-5 years of service for us. Only Greenway has expressed an interest in returning. Doesn't that tell you anything?

    Yes I realize the NFL has changed with free agency coming, but good teams with good structures seem to have their players WANT to return. Two of our starters seem to not want to be here.
    Good point about were the players are at in their career and a nice move to cover your six about the FA thing.

    Only issue I have is related to the "Good teams" comment.

    Good teams have consistency at the top so that teams aren't completely trying to re-invent themselves every 4 to 6 years. Alas, we are back at that point to a certain extent. Good thing out of all of this is Leslie provides some sort of stability as he was on the staff already.
    Again, how are we re-inventing ourselves?

    Has our Front office stayed mostly the same for the past 6 years? Yes. We replaced Foley with Spielman, that's about it. New coaches running the same schemes shouldn't greatly change which players come and go. The Colts changed their HC and didn't even miss a beat. Packers just did a major Defensive overhaul, and they're one of the top units in the league right now. When Wilf came, he hired a new coach, who turned out to be the wrong coach, now he's fixing that. What do you want? Us to stick with a terrible coach just so we can have some uniformity?

    Ah, just like when Sanders left the Lions?
    49ers have been so great since TO left
    sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Know why some teams are consistantly championship contenders? They retain their core players, and groom backups to replace him. If we lose Ben AND Greenway, what do we do? If we lose Rice, what do we do? If we lose AP, what do we do? The backups are significantly worse thatn what we have. In AP's case, it will be hard to replace him, but LB, DT, etc. not as much.
    We get someone else. Just the way it works.
    Ok, who? We have more holes than we do picks. If Rice and Edwards leave, that leaves us with one big hole to fix, and DE which needs some depth. If Greenway and AP leave next year, that's more to fix. There are only so many draft picks to replace guys with. The good teams that seem to consistently have great seasons don't face themselves with the issue of replacing 5+ core players each year. We seem to have to deal with that. Why? Probably poor planning by the FO.
    There are 2 good FA's available, when the CBA thing gets straightened out (not Spielmans fault)
    Nah, that's Childresses fault
    we will probably make a good run at one of them if we don't get one of those 8 QB's and young Joe has shown some flash so it isn't like he isn't void of talent.
    It also isn't like he's going to lead this team to victory. Worst case scenario he's TJ 2.0, best case he manages the game, throwing about 2700 yards, 17-20 td's and under 20 int's. We lean on AD (wait a minute, we can't do that can we...) and squeak out 8-8. Joe has some talent, and he can do things TJ couldn't, but he's still very young and raw. You thought the playbook was dumbed down for TJ, I'd imagine it's even moreso for Webb. Webb has never had to properly read a defense, nor play against the talent he sees in the NFL. He has to basically learn how to play the position. Not an easy task for a young kid out of a DI-AA school. that takes time, and unfortunately, we didn't give him that time. One thing I do like, is he seems much more composed than TJ ever did. He seems to enjoy being rushed at, whereas TJ panics and gets sacked.
    LOL, Webb needs time. I wonder when he will run out of time. Judging by your intitial commment, he already has.
    [/quote]

    No, I'm willing to give Webb time to develop just as I was willing to give TJ time to develop initially. When year 3 comes around and he's STILL not showing signs of being the guy we hope, it's time to cut ties.
    On a side note, how come you make so damn many quotes.
    I like to :lol:

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