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  1. #61
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    With Holt, you have to remember that the entire Rams team was dreadful last year.
    Its hard to put up great numbers year after year, especially when the team around you is degressing.
    The only season Holt hasn't put up over 1000 yards was his rookie year in 1998.
    This guy is one of the best, and will likely make the Hall of Fame when he decides to call it a career.

    Moss has made the best with less than best qb's.

    He's had a "washed up" cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Gus Frerrotte, Todd Bouman and a young Daunte Culpepper

    all of those players have put up great numbers, mainly because of Moss.
    I know Cunningham was a great player, but he was on the back end of his carreer, but Moss helped revitalize that career.
    The rest were good but not great quarterbacks, with the exception of Frerotte and Bouman, who were backups.
    When they were called upon to play, they did rather well with Moss.

    The reason he did poorly with Brooks, is a) lack of ideal arm strength
    b) The Raiders sucked all around as a team, adding a start on a terrible team makes them only slightly better than terrible
    c) Moss was unhappy with his situation, and as we all know, noone wants an unhappy moss on their team.
    Cunningham was beyond the back end of his career. He came out of retirement in 1997.


    The only reason Moss didn't succeed in Oakland is because of himself.

    He started out great, he was on pace to break the single season receiving yardage record a quarter of the way in to the
    2005 season. Then he got beat up, returned a few weeks later and realized just how shitty the team was. Decided he didn't like it there. Stopped trying, started being a douche. Still managed 1000 yards despite his obvious lack of effort. Acted even more like an asshole the next year. Got himself traded. And now he's back and better than ever with New England.


    A shitty attitude does not take away from a player's skills. And skills are clearly something Randy Moss has, he never lost them in Oakland, he just chose not to display them, it wasn't worth his effort if he knew it made no difference on that shitty of a team. At least that's the way I perceive the situation.

  2. #62
    PackSux!'s Avatar
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "PackSux!" wrote:
    1. Randy Moss
    2. Terrell Owens
    3. Marvin Harrison
    4. Torry Holt (people forget how good this guy is)
    5. Steve Smith
    6. Reggie Wayne
    7. Chad johnson
    8. Larry Fitgerald
    9. Plaxico Burress
    10. Hines Ward
    11. Andre Johnson
    12. Anquan Boldin
    13. T.J. Houshmandzadeh
    14. Marques Colston
    15. Braylen Edwards
    16. Wes Welker
    17. Brandon Marshall
    18. Roy Williams
    19. Bernard Berrian
    20. Derrick Mason


    This is just my opinion.
    There are a few other players out there that could bump any one of the last three out of the top 20.

    you put Colston ahead of Roy?

    Let me fix i for you.

    1. Randy Moss
    2. Terrell Owens
    3. Anquan Boldin
    4. Chad johnson
    5. Marvin Harrison
    6. Roy Williams
    7. Steve Smith
    8. Reggie Wayne
    9. Andre Johnson
    10. Larry Fitgerald
    11. Plaxico Burress
    12. Torry Holt (people forget how good this guy is)
    13. Hines Ward
    14. T.J. Houshmandzadeh
    15. Marques Colston
    16. Braylen Edwards
    17. Coles
    18. Derrick Mason
    19. Santana Moss
    20. Marshell


    Why are these guys on your list?
    WTF Wes Welker ?????
    : Lets see how he looks not playing in the slot with Randy before we say how good he is.
    WTF Bernard Berrian???? You're drinking that purple Koolaid again.
    If you havnt heard Randy Moss did resign with the patriots, so we will have to wait three years to find out if Welker should be on this list or not.

    But anyways we both have our opinions and that is what makes this country great.

  3. #63
    Schutz's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?

    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    With Holt, you have to remember that the entire Rams team was dreadful last year.
    Its hard to put up great numbers year after year, especially when the team around you is degressing.
    The only season Holt hasn't put up over 1000 yards was his rookie year in 1998.
    This guy is one of the best, and will likely make the Hall of Fame when he decides to call it a career.

    Moss has made the best with less than best qb's.

    He's had a "washed up" cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Gus Frerrotte, Todd Bouman and a young Daunte Culpepper

    all of those players have put up great numbers, mainly because of Moss.
    I know Cunningham was a great player, but he was on the back end of his carreer, but Moss helped revitalize that career.
    The rest were good but not great quarterbacks, with the exception of Frerotte and Bouman, who were backups.
    When they were called upon to play, they did rather well with Moss.

    The reason he did poorly with Brooks, is a) lack of ideal arm strength
    b) The Raiders sucked all around as a team, adding a start on a terrible team makes them only slightly better than terrible
    c) Moss was unhappy with his situation, and as we all know, noone wants an unhappy moss on their team.
    Cunningham was beyond the back end of his career. He came out of retirement in 1997.


    The only reason Moss didn't succeed in Oakland is because of himself.

    He started out great, he was on pace to break the single season receiving yardage record a quarter of the way in to the
    2005 season. Then he got beat up, returned a few weeks later and realized just how poohie the team was. Decided he didn't like it there. Stopped trying, started being a douche. Still managed 1000 yards despite his obvious lack of effort. Acted even more like an donkey butt the next year. Got himself traded. And now he's back and better than ever with New England.


    A poohie attitude does not take away from a player's skills. And skills are clearly something Randy Moss has, he never lost them in Oakland, he just chose not to display them, it wasn't worth his effort if he knew it made no difference on that poohie of a team. At least that's the way I perceive the situation.
    I think it was a combo of Moss not exactly being team leader Mr. Positive all the time, and the horriible HORRIBLE team atmosphere they have in Oakland.
    It's like people just shrivel up and die playing for that team.
    A losing atmosphere will eat up guys who aren't big positive guys and someone like Moss just got caught up in the losing black hole that is the Oakland Raiders.

  4. #64
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    Since everyone else was doing it.. here's my assessment or 2 cents..

    The thing i looked at that i don't feel everyone else did is you have to look at the body of work as well as stats along with intangibles.
    i.e. can this guy be a legit #1 receiver

    would his production be there even if he was the only legit target on the roster..

    how does he impact games?

    can he by himself.. do you have to double team or game plan for this guy.?

    Intangibles?

    Is he a one year wonder?

    Although this is just my opinion, I feel this is the top 20.. in the league..

    guys that put bb on the list, i mean c'mon.. he hasnt even had a 1,000 yd season..!!! that's almost like putting patrick crayton in the top 20... with guys like DJ Hackett arguably better recivers than BB...

    so here goes..

    1. Randy Moss (Got Moss?)
    2. Terrell Owens (Has all the physical tools and can beat any corner one on one)
    3. Reggie Wayne (Showed he’s a true #1 when Harrison mr. consistency went down)
    4. Chad Johnson (Has arguably the best combination of skills of any receiver in the league)
    5. Steve Smith (When paired with a competent Qb few are game changes the way this guy can be)
    6. Tory Holt (Quiet and not flashy but still consistently one of the best receivers in the game)
    7. Marvin Harrison (One injured season is not enough to knock this guy out of the top 10)
    8. Andre Johnson (Shown and proved to be a dangerous receiver despite inept qb’s a-la david carr and a faulty o-line to support him)
    9. T.J. Houshmandzadeh (the only consistent bengals receiver in td’s and yards and catches this year.. with cj down, proved to be a legit #1 weapon)
    10. Braylen Edwards (If he can repeat the season he had last year, he will easily move into the top 5, cant put him there yet, bc he’s a one year wonder but still good skills and a competent qb show he will have a very prosperous career)
    11. Plaxico Burress (Finally put his physical skills and mental toughness and Showed a dominating presence in the playoffs by single handedly toying with one of the best cover corners in the league while on a bum ankle.. )
    12. Roy Williams (before the injury, we showed what a proven force he could be in a pass first offense..)
    13. Anquan Boldin (Very underrated receiver but is a legit #1 regardless of the QB)
    14. Larry Fitzgerald (All he does is catch td’s the cris carter clone is an awesome receiver but it’s questionable whether he can carry an offense w/o his ace boon coon boldin across from him)
    15. Marques Colston (Proved he wasn’t a one year wonder by matching his debut season by coming on strong in the second half of the season..)
    16. Brandon Marshall (This guy came out of nowhere to lead the broncos once Javon talk to much walker went down.. his development arguably let the broncos’ know they cold let the disgruntled pre-madonna go)
    17. Donald Driver (Mr. Consistent and Brett Favre’s favorite weapon.. had few td’s this season but still a probowl performer and a legit #1 guy)
    18. Hines Ward (tough as nails and just as gritty.. at this point he’s a possession receiver but still have to account for his tenacity, big catch ability and downfield blocking.. all the intangibles make him the most complete receiver in the game)
    19. Joey Galloway (Even at this stage in his career it seemed as though there was a highlight of him everyweek toying with younger corners that thought he was past his prime.
    At 30+ he’s still the deep threat he was when he came into the league and definitely a top 20 receiver)
    20. Wes Welker (this one is debatable due to the impact of #1 guy Moss.. but his underneath route running and sure handedness make him a top 20 guy even with the presence of moss.. he’d arguably be even better and a definite #1 in a west coast offense.. but nonetheless rounds out the top 20)
    No disreespect but if you are going to put people in there when looking at the entire picture (which I think is correct) you have to say Berrien did pretty well considering his QBs also.
    Therefore for your own reasoning Berrien could be ahead of some of the players listed.
    These otehr players you spoke about all have decent QBs throwing the ball to them.

  5. #65
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?

    [size=13pt]Roy Williams told not to believe trade rumors, says he would be 'Lion for life'[/size]

    BY NICHOLAS J. COTSONIKA • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • March 26, 2008
    freep.com


    As rumors swirled that the Lions might trade wide receiver Roy Williams, coach Rod Marinelli called Williams and told him not to believe them. Marinelli told Williams he was going to stay in Detroit and have the best year of his career....

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  6. #66
    PurpleTide's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?


    I though Detroit would be foolish to let Roy Williams go. But then again, many of their decisions have baffled me. ???

  7. #67
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Roy Williams on Trading Block?

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    Since everyone else was doing it.. here's my assessment or 2 cents..

    The thing i looked at that i don't feel everyone else did is you have to look at the body of work as well as stats along with intangibles.
    i.e. can this guy be a legit #1 receiver

    would his production be there even if he was the only legit target on the roster..

    how does he impact games?

    can he by himself.. do you have to double team or game plan for this guy.?

    Intangibles?

    Is he a one year wonder?

    Although this is just my opinion, I feel this is the top 20.. in the league..

    guys that put bb on the list, i mean c'mon.. he hasnt even had a 1,000 yd season..!!! that's almost like putting patrick crayton in the top 20... with guys like DJ Hackett arguably better recivers than BB...

    so here goes..

    1. Randy Moss (Got Moss?)
    2. Terrell Owens (Has all the physical tools and can beat any corner one on one)
    3. Reggie Wayne (Showed he’s a true #1 when Harrison mr. consistency went down)
    4. Chad Johnson (Has arguably the best combination of skills of any receiver in the league)
    5. Steve Smith (When paired with a competent Qb few are game changes the way this guy can be)
    6. Tory Holt (Quiet and not flashy but still consistently one of the best receivers in the game)
    7. Marvin Harrison (One injured season is not enough to knock this guy out of the top 10)
    8. Andre Johnson (Shown and proved to be a dangerous receiver despite inept qb’s a-la david carr and a faulty o-line to support him)
    9. T.J. Houshmandzadeh (the only consistent bengals receiver in td’s and yards and catches this year.. with cj down, proved to be a legit #1 weapon)
    10. Braylen Edwards (If he can repeat the season he had last year, he will easily move into the top 5, cant put him there yet, bc he’s a one year wonder but still good skills and a competent qb show he will have a very prosperous career)
    11. Plaxico Burress (Finally put his physical skills and mental toughness and Showed a dominating presence in the playoffs by single handedly toying with one of the best cover corners in the league while on a bum ankle.. )
    12. Roy Williams (before the injury, we showed what a proven force he could be in a pass first offense..)
    13. Anquan Boldin (Very underrated receiver but is a legit #1 regardless of the QB)
    14. Larry Fitzgerald (All he does is catch td’s the cris carter clone is an awesome receiver but it’s questionable whether he can carry an offense w/o his ace boon coon boldin across from him)
    15. Marques Colston (Proved he wasn’t a one year wonder by matching his debut season by coming on strong in the second half of the season..)
    16. Brandon Marshall (This guy came out of nowhere to lead the broncos once Javon talk to much walker went down.. his development arguably let the broncos’ know they cold let the disgruntled pre-madonna go)
    17. Donald Driver (Mr. Consistent and Brett Favre’s favorite weapon.. had few td’s this season but still a probowl performer and a legit #1 guy)
    18. Hines Ward (tough as nails and just as gritty.. at this point he’s a possession receiver but still have to account for his tenacity, big catch ability and downfield blocking.. all the intangibles make him the most complete receiver in the game)
    19. Joey Galloway (Even at this stage in his career it seemed as though there was a highlight of him everyweek toying with younger corners that thought he was past his prime.
    At 30+ he’s still the deep threat he was when he came into the league and definitely a top 20 receiver)
    20. Wes Welker (this one is debatable due to the impact of #1 guy Moss.. but his underneath route running and sure handedness make him a top 20 guy even with the presence of moss.. he’d arguably be even better and a definite #1 in a west coast offense.. but nonetheless rounds out the top 20)
    No disreespect but if you are going to put people in there when looking at the entire picture (which I think is correct) you have to say Berrien did pretty well considering his QBs also.
    Therefore for your own reasoning Berrien could be ahead of some of the players listed.
    These otehr players you spoke about all have decent QBs throwing the ball to them.
    sorry i don't see anybody on this list that berrian is better than.. i don't even think he's in the top 30... maybe one day.. but as of right now.. NO!

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