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  1. #21
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    Braylon Edwards is a good receiver.
    I don't know why you said that.
    He is on a bad team.
    Makes a big difference.
    Put him on Chargers, he shines real bright.
    Going after a receiver is a good idea provided that he is the right receiver.
    Ginn Jr?
    No.
    Calvin J.
    Yes.
    Jarrett
    Maybe.
    If Calvin comes out, we need to trade up, not down to get him.
    If we cannot trade up and he comes out, then we have to move to getting a DB, FS, SS, CB etc.
    Not even a decent idea to take a OG or OT with that 7th pick.
    So what? Troy Williamson plays on a bad team... Does that make him good? If you put Troy on the Patriors would he suddenly stop dropping the ball? I doubt it.

    Here's how I think we'll be drafting..

    If Calvin is there- pick him.
    If Calvin isn't there, trade down for more picks.
    The Vikings have enough holes to fill (WR, TE, DE) that moving out of the #7 spot simply because one player is not available seems a bit hasty.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  2. #22
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "Mystophales" wrote:
    Alright I have introduced myself in another post so I figured i would start spewing forth my unwanted opinions as soon as possible.

    I see a lot of people wanting to go for a reciever in the draft and I for one really don't see that as even remotely a good idea. Certainly not for a first round pick. Here are my reasons...

    1. Ask the Lions how well that has worked out for them. (3 1st round picks...all pretty average)
    2. Ask the Browns how well that has worked for them. (Braylon who?)
    3. Wasn't there a couple of guys that the Vikes took first round. (Randy panned out until we decided we could do better and picked Williamson to replace him...hmmm that trade isn't looking to good)

    My point is simply you are much better picking up guys that you know can catch in the NFL. I realize there aren't any big names in Free Agency as far as recievers are concerned but I honestly don't think you need a 'Big Name". I would much rather have three receivers that make the tough catch over the middle than three Terell Owens primadonna's that constantly tell you how good they are. The draft is really a crap shoot overall and for recievers even more so.
    You can say that about ANY position! Don't take a DE, just look at Demetrius Underwood and Courtney Brown. Don't take a QB, just look at Ryan Leaf and Jeff George. Don't take an RB, just look at Curtis Enis.

    Do I need to go on?

    You have to take SOMEONE in the draft and the most logical person to take is the player that best fits your needs. Our biggest need right now is wide receiver and this draft has two or three very talented wide outs at the top. IMO, it's a no brainer.

  3. #23
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "Mystophales" wrote:
    Alright I have introduced myself in another post so I figured i would start spewing forth my unwanted opinions as soon as possible.

    I see a lot of people wanting to go for a reciever in the draft and I for one really don't see that as even remotely a good idea. Certainly not for a first round pick. Here are my reasons...
    While I don't agree with all of your reasons (Roy Williams, as others have pointed out, is a stud), I do agree that using the #7 spot on a WR is folly - IF you expect that WR to come in and make an immediate impact.

    That's the key here, people.
    The Vikings need IMMEDIATE help on the WR front.
    They have no #1 receiver at all.
    If you look at who is likely to be back on the roster next year, they have a bunch of 2, 3 & 4 receivers (Williamson, TTaylor, Mann(?), Nance(?), Carter(?)) but no #1 receiver.

    What is a #1 receiver, tho, to the Vikings who will run Chilli's WCO for the foreseeable future?


    He is a SURE-HANDED and FEARLESS play-maker who can turn the 5-yard slants into 15-yard gains.
    He is NOT a deep-threat streak to the post or flag on every play.
    That is not the offense the Vikings run, so looking for that type of player is wrong.
    Jerry Rice is the epitome of the WCO #1 receiver, and his bread-and-butter was the 5-yard slant from the slot position.

    Now that we understand the need, I will return to the draft.
    The reality is - ROOKIE WRs who have a big-time impact their first year is EXTREMELY rare.
    Off the top of my head, I can think of two in the past 10 years who were superlative players right off the bat - Randy Moss and Anquan Bolden.
    Other first-rounders have turned into studs, but that was 2 or 3 years down the road.

    To expect that Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett or whoever would come in as a first-year WR and score 15 TDs with 90 catches for 1200 yards ignores history.
    Look what happened to Williamson when the pressure to be The Man was applied too early - and he was in his SECOND year!
    He's a basket-case now who's going to have to work extremely hard just to get back on the field at all.

    If Vikings fans want a #1 receiver - OF THE TYPE THEIR OFFENSE NEEDS - then looking to a draft-choice to be that #1 in his first year is not the route to take.

    I'd rather they pick up a sure-hands tough guy in the 3rd round or so.
    Maybe someone like Anthony Gonzalez.

    =Z=


    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  4. #24
    Mystophales is offline Rookie
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "Mystophales" wrote:
    Alright I have introduced myself in another post so I figured i would start spewing forth my unwanted opinions as soon as possible.

    I see a lot of people wanting to go for a reciever in the draft and I for one really don't see that as even remotely a good idea. Certainly not for a first round pick. Here are my reasons...
    While I don't agree with all of your reasons (Roy Williams, as others have pointed out, is a stud), I do agree that using the #7 spot on a WR is folly - IF you expect that WR to come in and make an immediate impact.

    That's the key here, people.
    The Vikings need IMMEDIATE help on the WR front.
    They have no #1 receiver at all.
    If you look at who is likely to be back on the roster next year, they have a bunch of 2, 3 & 4 receivers (Williamson, TTaylor, Mann(?), Nance(?), Carter(?)) but no #1 receiver.

    What is a #1 receiver, tho, to the Vikings who will run Chilli's WCO for the foreseeable future?


    He is a SURE-HANDED and FEARLESS play-maker who can turn the 5-yard slants into 15-yard gains.
    He is NOT a deep-threat streak to the post or flag on every play.
    That is not the offense the Vikings run, so looking for that type of player is wrong.
    Jerry Rice is the epitome of the WCO #1 receiver, and his bread-and-butter was the 5-yard slant from the slot position.

    Now that we understand the need, I will return to the draft.
    The reality is - ROOKIE WRs who have a big-time impact their first year is EXTREMELY rare.
    Off the top of my head, I can think of two in the past 10 years who were superlative players right off the bat - Randy Moss and Anquan Bolden.
    Other first-rounders have turned into studs, but that was 2 or 3 years down the road.

    To expect that Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett or whoever would come in as a first-year WR and score 15 TDs with 90 catches for 1200 yards ignores history.
    Look what happened to Williamson when the pressure to be The Man was applied too early - and he was in his SECOND year!
    He's a basket-case now who's going to have to work extremely hard just to get back on the field at all.

    If Vikings fans want a #1 receiver - OF THE TYPE THEIR OFFENSE NEEDS - then looking to a draft-choice to be that #1 in his first year is not the route to take.

    I'd rather they pick up a sure-hands tough guy in the 3rd round or so.
    Maybe someone like Anthony Gonzalez.

    =Z=

    This is the point I was trying to make (although apparently very poorly... ;D)

    To me trading down for more picks or trading that pick for a already established player is the way to go. I don't think anyone here would complain about letting the #7 pick go for Larry Fitzgerald (although I don't see Arizona letting him go for anything less than a package type deal).

  5. #25
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    This post is dumb.
    It is dumb because it is not thought out.
    When you say make the relatively baseless claim that WRs don't warrant first round picks because they don't often turn out well can be said for any position - the draft is crap shoot.
    Looking at the 2003 draft there are 16 players out of 32 that were busts and only 3 WRs were drafted.

    Another reason why your logic is faulty is that out of 33 WRs drafted in the first round from 1998-2004 (too early to tell for the 2005 class) 19 are either currently considered top players in the NFL or they are considered above average.
    That means they aren't busts.
    In case you don't want to do that math that about 58% of WRs drafted in the first round work out decently.
    So the majority of the time drafting a WR works out.

    Also, you argument that WRs alone can't turn a team around is garbage because that can be said for any position save MAYBE quarterback.
    And we're not drafting a QB.

    The Vikings are an offense with a good line and a good running game, the 2nd best run-defense in the modern era, and talent in the secondary.
    They are some play-makers in the passing game (and a quality veteran CB or two and better play calling) away from being a very good team.
    OUr biggest need in WR, there are 2 very good ones who will likely come out (Johnson and Jarrett) and another with a world of talent (Ginn) who could be available when we draft. We need to take one of them. Period!
    Great post.
    I agree with you that our most pressing need is at WR.
    Additionally, I think that Jarrett will be avail at #7.
    Use it on him AND take another one (there are so many out there the press doesn't cover i.e. Paul Williams- WR- Fresno St/Rhema McKnight- WR- Notre Dame/Dwayne Bowe- WR- LSU/Craig Davis- WR- LSU/Jason Hill- WR- Washington St.) with a later round pick that can help with KR/PR's also.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    You forgot Johnnie Lee Higgins out of UTEP. Bad team but he put up pretty decent numbers!

    Thanks PPE for the Sig

    Fighting on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you are still mentally challenged!

  7. #27
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "gr8vike" wrote:
    You forgot Johnnie Lee Higgins out of UTEP. Bad team but he put up pretty decent numbers!
    I will have to look at him.
    Anyway, the point is we use our pic on WR this year and again with a late round pic next year.
    WR's will be everywere next year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    To expect that Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett or whoever would come in as a first-year WR and score 15 TDs with 90 catches for 1200 yards ignores history.
    Look what happened to Williamson when the pressure to be The Man was applied too early - and he was in his SECOND year!
    He's a basket-case now who's going to have to work extremely hard just to get back on the field at all.
    Here's more evidence for the delusional.

    These are the WRs selected in the 2006 NFL Draft:

    Wide Receivers
    Player Ht. Wt. School Rd Sel# Team
    Anderson, David 5-10 193 Colorado State 7 251 Houston

    Aromashodu, Devin 6-2 202 Auburn 7 233 Miami




    Avant, Jason 6-0 213 Michigan 4 109 Philadelphia

    Blackmon, Will 6-0 199 Boston College 4 115 Green Bay

    Bloom, Jeremy 5-9 172 Colorado 5 147 Philadelphia

    Bouknight, Jovon 6-1 191 Wyoming



    Brazell, Bennie 6-3 176 Louisiana State 7 231 Cincinnati

    Colston, Marques TE 6-4 223 7 252 New Orleans

    Green, Skyler 5-9 191 Louisiana State 4 125 Dallas

    Hagan, Derek 6-2 209 Arizona State 3 82 Miami

    Hagans, Marques 5-9 201 Virginia 5 144 St. Louis

    Hass, Mike 6-0 208 Oregon State 6 171 New Orleans

    Hixon, Domenik 6-2 210 Akron 4 130 Denver

    Holmes, Santonio 5-11 187 Ohio State 1 25 Pittsburgh

    Jackson, Chad 6-1 212 Florida 2 36 New England

    Jennings, Adam 5-10 170 Fresno State 6 184 Atlanta

    Jennings, Greg 5-11 196 Western Michigan 2 52 Green Bay

    Kilmer, Ethan 6-1 204 Penn State 7 209 Cincinnati



    Marshall, Brandon 6-4 230 Central Florida 4 119 Denver

    McMahan, Kevin 6-2 195 Maine 7 255 Oakland

    Moss, Sinorice 5-8 184 Miami (Fla.) 2 44 N.Y. Giants



    Obomanu, Ben 6-1 206 Auburn 7 249 Seattle

    Orr, Jonathan 6-2 197 Wisconsin 6 172 Tennessee

    Reid, Willie 5-11 187 Florida State 3 95 Pittsburgh

    Robinson, Michael 6-1 226 Penn State 4 100 San Francisco

    Rodgers, Cory 6-0 187 Texas Christian 4 104 Green Bay

    Ross, Richie 6-4 207 Nebraska-Kearney



    Smith, Brad 6-2 212 Missouri 4 103 N.Y. Jets



    Stovall, Maurice 6-4 218 Notre Dame 3 90 Tampa Bay

    Walker, Delanie 6-1 241 Central Missouri State 6 175 San Francisco

    Watkins, Todd 6-2 201 Brigham Young 7 218 Arizona

    Webb, Jeff 6-2 201 San Diego State 6 190 Kansas City

    Williams, Brandon 5-9 180 Wisconsin 3 84 San Francisco

    Williams, Demetrius 6-2 198 Oregon 4 111 Baltimore

    Wilson, Travis 6-2 213 Oklahoma 3 78 Cleveland


    Only ONE of those had a real 1st-year impact, and that was Marques Colston, who was drafted in the SEVENTH round and who NFL.COM has projected as TE in the pros.

    A couple others had minor impact (Santonio Holmes, Greg Jennings), but the rest made no noise in 2006.

    The Vikings need IMMEDIATE help at WR.
    The NFL draft is not the way to get help for the 2007 season.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  9. #29
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "vike_mike" wrote:
    Braylon Edwards is a good receiver.
    I don't know why you said that.
    He is on a bad team.
    Makes a big difference.
    Put him on Chargers, he shines real bright.
    Going after a receiver is a good idea provided that he is the right receiver.
    Ginn Jr?
    No.
    Calvin J.
    Yes.
    Jarrett
    Maybe.
    If Calvin comes out, we need to trade up, not down to get him.
    If we cannot trade up and he comes out, then we have to move to getting a DB, FS, SS, CB etc.
    Not even a decent idea to take a OG or OT with that 7th pick.
    So what? Troy Williamson plays on a bad team... Does that make him good? If you put Troy on the Patriors would he suddenly stop dropping the ball? I doubt it.

    Here's how I think we'll be drafting..

    If Calvin is there- pick him.
    If Calvin isn't there, trade down for more picks.
    The Vikings have enough holes to fill (WR, TE, DE) that moving out of the #7 spot simply because one player is not available seems a bit hasty.

    =Z=
    Which is why you would trade out of the #7. We have more holes than just one pick will be able to help with. Trading down to the middle of the 1st (10-18) and getting another 2nd round pick would help and we would still be able to take another playmaker with our 1st.

  10. #30
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    Re: Reciever in the draft...I don't think so

    We do have sxo many holes to fill, but I'd be fine with taking CJ with the 7th.
    Like others have stated, if he is not there, lets trade down IF we can get a middle round first and a second for it.

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