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  1. #21
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    good post and all, but what is failed to be mentioned is that brohms stock is dropping and he is being mentioned as an early 2nd round pick or a team in the 2nd round trading up into the end of the 1st round to grab him.
    granted there are plenty of differenting opinions but as of right now he doesn't seem like he would be the bpa available at 17.


    also i dont like the idea of any high draft pick as a backup plan or future trade bait.
    you mention matt schaub but he was not a first round pick, i believe he was a 4th rounder.
    quinn was drafted to be their starting qb but anderson threw a wrench in that.
    theres very little precedent for what you are talking about cuz when you draft a qb in the 1st round he is your future.
    jason cambell wasn't the backup plan, he was going to be their future, aaron rogers was not a backup plan or trade bait, he was the future.
    the vikings have pressing needs at other positions that need to be addressed so to draft a guy who is going to not even be active the whole year barring injuries in the first round is a bigger risk than passing on him and jackson fails.


    like i said earlier it's probably moot cuz as of what ive seen lately brohm may not be the bpa at 17, but if the vikes dont like what they may have coming to them the can try to make a short move up to get the guy they want, or trade down and stockpile picks.
    to me this is a more prudent move than drafting a guy for a just in case scenario.
    we are on the verge of making the playoffs so if we wanna help jackson succeed either sure up the o-line, or get somebody who can pull the defense outta the last ranking.
    brohm won't help us this year, and it probably would just muddle the qb situation, so i'm just not down for that.
    Good post ragz.

    Those who seem to want to draft Brohm have no confidence in Tarvaris future because like you said a pick this high indicates a future QB. I beleive our orginization has far more confidence in TJack than our fan base, erasing the thoughts of an early round QB.
    Its a couple of weeks before the draft everyones stock is rising and falling. But the Vikings have made it very clear that they need plan B for TJack. Is that showing a lack of confidence? maybe. But I see it as being smart. What if he fails? what is our Plan B?
    Can everyone say with confidence that they want Gus as our QB of the future and hope that a Vet QB is available to come in or that we have to stick a rookie in the Mix next year? Am I for taking a QB in round 1? No. Would Brohm be tempting if he was there? Yeah. Would I be upset f they took him, a little, but more surprised. As I think there would be better choices to make this offense better and give TJack no more excuses to be better.
    I have some of the biggest doubts about TJack here. But I would be very disappointed and surprised if we do not have a QB by the end of the 3rd round. Plus Tjack Supporters should support a move like this. Giving him good competition would only make him better. a 37 year old QB is not competition, advising him is your coaches job. I have yet to hear a #2 Qb say I just want to sit on the bench and never get a chance to be the starter.Competition makes you better. I guess I missed how that would not be an advantage to TJack.

  2. #22
    seaniemck7's Avatar
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "ragz" wrote:
    "stateVIKE44" wrote:
    Basically ... if we were to draft a QB in the first round and TJ ends up doing well, we put ourselves in the same situation that the Browns were in this year. NOT a bad situation to be in!
    except it was by accident and chances are they would never have traded a number one and then used a number one if they knew derek anderson was gonna be the guy.
    if you think about it, quinn cost them 2 1st rounders.
    the one they used on him, and the one they gave up this year to move up in the 1st round last year.

    that's an awfully high price for a backup qb, or as some say future trade bait.
    hehehehe that's still only one 1st round pick.

  3. #23
    ragz's Avatar
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    "stateVIKE44" wrote:
    Basically ... if we were to draft a QB in the first round and TJ ends up doing well, we put ourselves in the same situation that the Browns were in this year. NOT a bad situation to be in!
    except it was by accident and chances are they would never have traded a number one and then used a number one if they knew derek anderson was gonna be the guy.
    if you think about it, quinn cost them 2 1st rounders.
    the one they used on him, and the one they gave up this year to move up in the 1st round last year.

    that's an awfully high price for a backup qb, or as some say future trade bait.
    hehehehe that's still only one 1st round pick.
    how so, they used a 1st rounder on him which they could have used for another pick, and forfeited this years to move up and get him.
    then also factor in what they are paying him and what they had to be anderson and it seems a bit much if you ask me.
    i assume they gave up their 2nd round pick too to move up.
    so at worst they'd still have this years 1st rounder and coulda have used their 2nd round pick on whatever it might have been.
    either way still 2 picks.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  4. #24
    ragz's Avatar
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "Garland" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    good post and all, but what is failed to be mentioned is that brohms stock is dropping and he is being mentioned as an early 2nd round pick or a team in the 2nd round trading up into the end of the 1st round to grab him.
    granted there are plenty of differenting opinions but as of right now he doesn't seem like he would be the bpa available at 17.


    also i dont like the idea of any high draft pick as a backup plan or future trade bait.
    you mention matt schaub but he was not a first round pick, i believe he was a 4th rounder.
    quinn was drafted to be their starting qb but anderson threw a wrench in that.
    theres very little precedent for what you are talking about cuz when you draft a qb in the 1st round he is your future.
    jason cambell wasn't the backup plan, he was going to be their future, aaron rogers was not a backup plan or trade bait, he was the future.
    the vikings have pressing needs at other positions that need to be addressed so to draft a guy who is going to not even be active the whole year barring injuries in the first round is a bigger risk than passing on him and jackson fails.


    like i said earlier it's probably moot cuz as of what ive seen lately brohm may not be the bpa at 17, but if the vikes dont like what they may have coming to them the can try to make a short move up to get the guy they want, or trade down and stockpile picks.
    to me this is a more prudent move than drafting a guy for a just in case scenario.
    we are on the verge of making the playoffs so if we wanna help jackson succeed either sure up the o-line, or get somebody who can pull the defense outta the last ranking.
    brohm won't help us this year, and it probably would just muddle the qb situation, so i'm just not down for that.
    Good post ragz.

    Those who seem to want to draft Brohm have no confidence in Tarvaris future because like you said a pick this high indicates a future QB. I beleive our orginization has far more confidence in TJack than our fan base, erasing the thoughts of an early round QB.
    Its a couple of weeks before the draft everyones stock is rising and falling. But the Vikings have made it very clear that they need plan B for TJack. Is that showing a lack of confidence? maybe. But I see it as being smart. What if he fails? what is our Plan B?
    Can everyone say with confidence that they want Gus as our QB of the future and hope that a Vet QB is available to come in or that we have to stick a rookie in the Mix next year? Am I for taking a QB in round 1? No. Would Brohm be tempting if he was there? Yeah. Would I be upset f they took him, a little, but more surprised. As I think there would be better choices to make this offense better and give TJack no more excuses to be better.
    I have some of the biggest doubts about TJack here. But I would be very disappointed and surprised if we do not have a QB by the end of the 3rd round. Plus Tjack Supporters should support a move like this. Giving him good competition would only make him better. a 37 year old QB is not competition, advising him is your coaches job. I have yet to hear a #2 Qb say I just want to sit on the bench and never get a chance to be the starter.Competition makes you better. I guess I missed how that would not be an advantage to TJack.
    competition is a little different then taking a number 1 pick as your qb, the only way you do that is if you dont have any confidence in your starter being the future.
    plus the way i feel about it is you have to weigh your priorities.
    how important is getting competition for jackson as compared to finding a starting defensive end or o-tackle?
    or any of the positions?
    in the scenario being proposed alot would have to go wrong that one of the top end guys at either position is not there and we'd have to have a high grade on brohm.
    i know it's hypothetical but it appears far fetched and not in the best interest of the vikings "right now"
    i think surprised is the operative word in your post, cuz i know i would be damned surprised if no de or ot were left and other teams with just as bad or worse qb situations passed on brohm.
    "self improvement's masturbation.
    now self destruction" that's enlightenment

  5. #25
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "Garland" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    good post and all, but what is failed to be mentioned is that brohms stock is dropping and he is being mentioned as an early 2nd round pick or a team in the 2nd round trading up into the end of the 1st round to grab him.
    granted there are plenty of differenting opinions but as of right now he doesn't seem like he would be the bpa available at 17.


    also i dont like the idea of any high draft pick as a backup plan or future trade bait.
    you mention matt schaub but he was not a first round pick, i believe he was a 4th rounder.
    quinn was drafted to be their starting qb but anderson threw a wrench in that.
    theres very little precedent for what you are talking about cuz when you draft a qb in the 1st round he is your future.
    jason cambell wasn't the backup plan, he was going to be their future, aaron rogers was not a backup plan or trade bait, he was the future.
    the vikings have pressing needs at other positions that need to be addressed so to draft a guy who is going to not even be active the whole year barring injuries in the first round is a bigger risk than passing on him and jackson fails.


    like i said earlier it's probably moot cuz as of what ive seen lately brohm may not be the bpa at 17, but if the vikes dont like what they may have coming to them the can try to make a short move up to get the guy they want, or trade down and stockpile picks.
    to me this is a more prudent move than drafting a guy for a just in case scenario.
    we are on the verge of making the playoffs so if we wanna help jackson succeed either sure up the o-line, or get somebody who can pull the defense outta the last ranking.
    brohm won't help us this year, and it probably would just muddle the qb situation, so i'm just not down for that.
    Good post ragz.

    Those who seem to want to draft Brohm have no confidence in Tarvaris future because like you said a pick this high indicates a future QB. I beleive our orginization has far more confidence in TJack than our fan base, erasing the thoughts of an early round QB.
    Its a couple of weeks before the draft everyones stock is rising and falling. But the Vikings have made it very clear that they need plan B for TJack. Is that showing a lack of confidence? maybe. But I see it as being smart. What if he fails? what is our Plan B?
    Can everyone say with confidence that they want Gus as our QB of the future and hope that a Vet QB is available to come in or that we have to stick a rookie in the Mix next year? Am I for taking a QB in round 1? No. Would Brohm be tempting if he was there? Yeah. Would I be upset f they took him, a little, but more surprised. As I think there would be better choices to make this offense better and give TJack no more excuses to be better.
    I have some of the biggest doubts about TJack here. But I would be very disappointed and surprised if we do not have a QB by the end of the 3rd round. Plus Tjack Supporters should support a move like this. Giving him good competition would only make him better. a 37 year old QB is not competition, advising him is your coaches job. I have yet to hear a #2 Qb say I just want to sit on the bench and never get a chance to be the starter.Competition makes you better. I guess I missed how that would not be an advantage to TJack.
    I'm a TJack supporter and do not support the pick of a QB early in the draft. We should focus more on providing our current future with better pass protection and focus on gettng more pressure on the QB on the defensive side of the ball, something we have lacked for several years.

    Many fans want to gripe and complain about the QB position but I like to bring up the fact that our defensive line is piss poor at pass rush, I'm actually more comfortable with Edwards/Robison combo and getting some more "Competition" at the DT position where the sack/pressure production has been very poor. We have two big guys who are very popular among the fans but really lack the pass rushing production needed in becoming an elite defense. Williams #'s have dropped drasticlly and he has looked unmotivated to me, lets put a flame under that.


  6. #26
    seaniemck7's Avatar
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "ragz" wrote:
    "seaniemck7" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    "stateVIKE44" wrote:
    Basically ... if we were to draft a QB in the first round and TJ ends up doing well, we put ourselves in the same situation that the Browns were in this year. NOT a bad situation to be in!
    except it was by accident and chances are they would never have traded a number one and then used a number one if they knew derek anderson was gonna be the guy.
    if you think about it, quinn cost them 2 1st rounders.
    the one they used on him, and the one they gave up this year to move up in the 1st round last year.

    that's an awfully high price for a backup qb, or as some say future trade bait.
    hehehehe that's still only one 1st round pick.
    how so, they used a 1st rounder on him which they could have used for another pick, and forfeited this years to move up and get him.
    then also factor in what they are paying him and what they had to be anderson and it seems a bit much if you ask me.
    i assume they gave up their 2nd round pick too to move up.
    so at worst they'd still have this years 1st rounder and coulda have used their 2nd round pick on whatever it might have been.
    either way still 2 picks.
    Correct you are there. It cost them a 1st round pick (08) and their 2nd round pick (07). A lot, I agree.
    I was figuring you meant 2 picks, not 2 first rounders, but wanted to give you poop.
    :P

  7. #27
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "ragz" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    good post and all, but what is failed to be mentioned is that brohms stock is dropping and he is being mentioned as an early 2nd round pick or a team in the 2nd round trading up into the end of the 1st round to grab him.
    granted there are plenty of differenting opinions but as of right now he doesn't seem like he would be the bpa available at 17.


    also i dont like the idea of any high draft pick as a backup plan or future trade bait.
    you mention matt schaub but he was not a first round pick, i believe he was a 4th rounder.
    quinn was drafted to be their starting qb but anderson threw a wrench in that.
    theres very little precedent for what you are talking about cuz when you draft a qb in the 1st round he is your future.
    jason cambell wasn't the backup plan, he was going to be their future, aaron rogers was not a backup plan or trade bait, he was the future.
    the vikings have pressing needs at other positions that need to be addressed so to draft a guy who is going to not even be active the whole year barring injuries in the first round is a bigger risk than passing on him and jackson fails.


    like i said earlier it's probably moot cuz as of what ive seen lately brohm may not be the bpa at 17, but if the vikes dont like what they may have coming to them the can try to make a short move up to get the guy they want, or trade down and stockpile picks.
    to me this is a more prudent move than drafting a guy for a just in case scenario.
    we are on the verge of making the playoffs so if we wanna help jackson succeed either sure up the o-line, or get somebody who can pull the defense outta the last ranking.
    brohm won't help us this year, and it probably would just muddle the qb situation, so i'm just not down for that.
    Good post ragz.

    Those who seem to want to draft Brohm have no confidence in Tarvaris future because like you said a pick this high indicates a future QB. I beleive our orginization has far more confidence in TJack than our fan base.
    i still believe, and i'm not lumping anyone in particular into this, but the viking fans that have been in a constant state of replacing jackson is all exterior stuff.
    he played at a small school, he was a late 2nd rounder that some believed was a reach, so basically just perception.
    if he woulda went to michegan, or been drafted in the 1st round like a david carr or joey harrington was, those fans would be more patient and say the things that i say about jackson.
    but becuz of there perception of him from the outset they are constantly replacing him.
    last year he was being replaced by brady quinn and he had a whole 2 games under his belt.
    now 14 games into this career they have brohm replacing him.
    he's young, he's gonna make some bad throws or decisions.
    but if we look at his play in the 2nd half of the year he was making better decisions, running when it presented it self, keeping his eyes downfield almost to a fault to keep plays alive, and creating a more efficient passing game.
    we went 8-4 with him and hopefully we just keep building on that.

    my feeling is he's our qb, of now and the future.
    when teams draft a number one pick as their qb they dont go drafting another one after his rookie season was mixed.
    for better or worse he's the guy and either proves himself or ends up a bust.
    i dont see why jackson isn't the same deal.
    they've added rice, berrian, wade, shiancoe, peterson, taylor and whatever else.
    this offense was almost a total overhaul from where it was 3 years ago, including jackson.
    i think he can do it, but i've been wrong plenty.
    but i think we should give up on the idea that every year our first round pick is gonna be a qb.
    Right on dude, another good post. Infact both your post make more sense than the original thread starter...

  8. #28
    Garland Greene's Avatar
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    good post and all, but what is failed to be mentioned is that brohms stock is dropping and he is being mentioned as an early 2nd round pick or a team in the 2nd round trading up into the end of the 1st round to grab him.
    granted there are plenty of differenting opinions but as of right now he doesn't seem like he would be the bpa available at 17.


    also i dont like the idea of any high draft pick as a backup plan or future trade bait.
    you mention matt schaub but he was not a first round pick, i believe he was a 4th rounder.
    quinn was drafted to be their starting qb but anderson threw a wrench in that.
    theres very little precedent for what you are talking about cuz when you draft a qb in the 1st round he is your future.
    jason cambell wasn't the backup plan, he was going to be their future, aaron rogers was not a backup plan or trade bait, he was the future.
    the vikings have pressing needs at other positions that need to be addressed so to draft a guy who is going to not even be active the whole year barring injuries in the first round is a bigger risk than passing on him and jackson fails.


    like i said earlier it's probably moot cuz as of what ive seen lately brohm may not be the bpa at 17, but if the vikes dont like what they may have coming to them the can try to make a short move up to get the guy they want, or trade down and stockpile picks.
    to me this is a more prudent move than drafting a guy for a just in case scenario.
    we are on the verge of making the playoffs so if we wanna help jackson succeed either sure up the o-line, or get somebody who can pull the defense outta the last ranking.
    brohm won't help us this year, and it probably would just muddle the qb situation, so i'm just not down for that.
    Good post ragz.

    Those who seem to want to draft Brohm have no confidence in Tarvaris future because like you said a pick this high indicates a future QB. I beleive our orginization has far more confidence in TJack than our fan base, erasing the thoughts of an early round QB.
    Its a couple of weeks before the draft everyones stock is rising and falling. But the Vikings have made it very clear that they need plan B for TJack. Is that showing a lack of confidence? maybe. But I see it as being smart. What if he fails? what is our Plan B?
    Can everyone say with confidence that they want Gus as our QB of the future and hope that a Vet QB is available to come in or that we have to stick a rookie in the Mix next year? Am I for taking a QB in round 1? No. Would Brohm be tempting if he was there? Yeah. Would I be upset f they took him, a little, but more surprised. As I think there would be better choices to make this offense better and give TJack no more excuses to be better.
    I have some of the biggest doubts about TJack here. But I would be very disappointed and surprised if we do not have a QB by the end of the 3rd round. Plus Tjack Supporters should support a move like this. Giving him good competition would only make him better. a 37 year old QB is not competition, advising him is your coaches job. I have yet to hear a #2 Qb say I just want to sit on the bench and never get a chance to be the starter.Competition makes you better. I guess I missed how that would not be an advantage to TJack.
    I'm a TJack supporter and do not support the pick of a QB early in the draft. We should focus more on providing our current future with better pass protection and focus on gettng more pressure on the QB on the defensive side of the ball, something we have lacked for several years.

    Many fans want to gripe and complain about the QB position but I like to bring up the fact that our defensive line is piss poor at pass rush, I'm actually more comfortable with Edwards/Robison combo and getting some more "Competition" at the DT position where the sack/pressure production has been very poor. We have two big guys who are very popular among the fans but really lack the pass rushing production needed in becoming an elite defense. Williams #'s have dropped drasticlly and he has looked unmotivated to me, lets put a flame under that.

    So giving him no competition to make him better is a bad idea, or if he fails having some sort of back-up is not good either?

  9. #29
    jkjuggalo's Avatar
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    It seems as though I've seen this all before...

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/in...?topic=43514.0

    Rock out with your cock out!!!

  10. #30
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    Re: The Quarterback Quandary

    "Garland" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "ragz" wrote:
    good post and all, but what is failed to be mentioned is that brohms stock is dropping and he is being mentioned as an early 2nd round pick or a team in the 2nd round trading up into the end of the 1st round to grab him.
    granted there are plenty of differenting opinions but as of right now he doesn't seem like he would be the bpa available at 17.


    also i dont like the idea of any high draft pick as a backup plan or future trade bait.
    you mention matt schaub but he was not a first round pick, i believe he was a 4th rounder.
    quinn was drafted to be their starting qb but anderson threw a wrench in that.
    theres very little precedent for what you are talking about cuz when you draft a qb in the 1st round he is your future.
    jason cambell wasn't the backup plan, he was going to be their future, aaron rogers was not a backup plan or trade bait, he was the future.
    the vikings have pressing needs at other positions that need to be addressed so to draft a guy who is going to not even be active the whole year barring injuries in the first round is a bigger risk than passing on him and jackson fails.


    like i said earlier it's probably moot cuz as of what ive seen lately brohm may not be the bpa at 17, but if the vikes dont like what they may have coming to them the can try to make a short move up to get the guy they want, or trade down and stockpile picks.
    to me this is a more prudent move than drafting a guy for a just in case scenario.
    we are on the verge of making the playoffs so if we wanna help jackson succeed either sure up the o-line, or get somebody who can pull the defense outta the last ranking.
    brohm won't help us this year, and it probably would just muddle the qb situation, so i'm just not down for that.
    Good post ragz.

    Those who seem to want to draft Brohm have no confidence in Tarvaris future because like you said a pick this high indicates a future QB. I beleive our orginization has far more confidence in TJack than our fan base, erasing the thoughts of an early round QB.
    Its a couple of weeks before the draft everyones stock is rising and falling. But the Vikings have made it very clear that they need plan B for TJack. Is that showing a lack of confidence? maybe. But I see it as being smart. What if he fails? what is our Plan B?
    Can everyone say with confidence that they want Gus as our QB of the future and hope that a Vet QB is available to come in or that we have to stick a rookie in the Mix next year? Am I for taking a QB in round 1? No. Would Brohm be tempting if he was there? Yeah. Would I be upset f they took him, a little, but more surprised. As I think there would be better choices to make this offense better and give TJack no more excuses to be better.
    I have some of the biggest doubts about TJack here. But I would be very disappointed and surprised if we do not have a QB by the end of the 3rd round. Plus Tjack Supporters should support a move like this. Giving him good competition would only make him better. a 37 year old QB is not competition, advising him is your coaches job. I have yet to hear a #2 Qb say I just want to sit on the bench and never get a chance to be the starter.Competition makes you better. I guess I missed how that would not be an advantage to TJack.
    I'm a TJack supporter and do not support the pick of a QB early in the draft. We should focus more on providing our current future with better pass protection and focus on gettng more pressure on the QB on the defensive side of the ball, something we have lacked for several years.

    Many fans want to gripe and complain about the QB position but I like to bring up the fact that our defensive line is piss poor at pass rush, I'm actually more comfortable with Edwards/Robison combo and getting some more "Competition" at the DT position where the sack/pressure production has been very poor. We have two big guys who are very popular among the fans but really lack the pass rushing production needed in becoming an elite defense. Williams #'s have dropped drasticlly and he has looked unmotivated to me, lets put a flame under that.

    So giving him no competition to make him better is a bad idea, or if he fails having some sort of back-up is not good either?
    No, but we dont need to address the
    QB position in the first round, we have other needs OT,DE we could a Qb in the second or third but i dont like the idea of taken one in the first

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