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  1. #21
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Reggie had no chance to live up to expectations, no chance.

    http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bush_reggie00.html
    The average length of his 16 touchdowns in 2005 is 31.9 yards.
    in that same year he rushed 200 times for 1740 yds. at an avg of 8.7 YPC He was untouchable at USC.

    I'm still kind of surprised Houston had the balls to pass on him, pretty smart move in hindsight.

  2. #22
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    It still makes me laugh when people point out the number of Qb bust that are in the first round. The act like every other position in sure thing.

    "Draft an OT like Gallery and Chris Williams"
    "Draft a DT like Justin Harrell"
    "Draft a DE like Gaines Adams"
    "Draft a CB like Aaron Ross"

    The facct is every position is a risk. However, you do your homeworka nd fix what needs to be fixed. We don't have a QB!!!!!!

  3. #23
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    QB is probably the most unique position to draft.

    By far the best way to get a good QB is in the first round. The numbers don't like. I ran the numbers before, There's something like 40% bust rate in the first round. Compare to 5-7th round, and it's about 85%. You simply have to take the talent if it's there.

    Other positions, you can draft later and usually get a pretty good player. RB's are found all the time late in the draft, or undrafted and they can be great contributors. That's part of the reason I wasn't wild about the Toby pick. I felt we could get comparable talent later on, or as a FA.

    OT, DT, etc. it all depends what you need. If you need a guy who can start day 1, then yes, 1st round is your best bet, however if you have a situation where the guy has the luxury of playing a backup or situational role for a year or two first, you can absolutely get great value in the later rounds (ex. Ray Edwards)

    CB are kinda like QB's too, the great CB's in the league seem to be most often drafted early. Later round CB's are there for a reason. They're usually not fast or quick enough to be great cover players. Occasionally there's a guy with all the skills, but just is missing something mentally that can come with practice. Those are good value players who are best used as a dime or nickel for a couple years.

    however, the slow, clueless guys in the 6th round will likely never pan out. Just like how the guys with bad arms who can't read defenses in the 6th round likely will never pan out.

    I always get a kick when people say "Don't draft (Bradford/Tebow/McCoy/Clausen/Lienart/Cutler/Young/Ryan/Stafford/Flacco/Other high round talent QB), we can get a guy like LaFevor or Brodie Croyle in the 5th", and they lose their mind when we release a player like Thigpen, all of whom never have, and never will be good players.

  4. #24
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1090971
    QB is probably the most unique position to draft.

    By far the best way to get a good QB is in the first round. The numbers don't like. I ran the numbers before, There's something like 40% bust rate in the first round. Compare to 5-7th round, and it's about 85%. You simply have to take the talent if it's there.

    Other positions, you can draft later and usually get a pretty good player. RB's are found all the time late in the draft, or undrafted and they can be great contributors. That's part of the reason I wasn't wild about the Toby pick. I felt we could get comparable talent later on, or as a FA.

    OT, DT, etc. it all depends what you need. If you need a guy who can start day 1, then yes, 1st round is your best bet, however if you have a situation where the guy has the luxury of playing a backup or situational role for a year or two first, you can absolutely get great value in the later rounds (ex. Ray Edwards)

    CB are kinda like QB's too, the great CB's in the league seem to be most often drafted early. Later round CB's are there for a reason. They're usually not fast or quick enough to be great cover players. Occasionally there's a guy with all the skills, but just is missing something mentally that can come with practice. Those are good value players who are best used as a dime or nickel for a couple years.

    however, the slow, clueless guys in the 6th round will likely never pan out. Just like how the guys with bad arms who can't read defenses in the 6th round likely will never pan out.

    I always get a kick when people say "Don't draft (Bradford/Tebow/McCoy/Clausen/Lienart/Cutler/Young/Ryan/Stafford/Flacco/Other high round talent QB), we can get a guy like LaFevor or Brodie Croyle in the 5th", and they lose their mind when we release a player like Thigpen, all of whom never have, and never will be good players.
    Just to clarify one point about thigpen. The point wasnt so much that he would be outstanding.It was merely that he would be better in the system than jackson.

    over and out

  5. #25
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1090969
    It still makes me laugh when people point out the number of Qb bust that are in the first round. The act like every other position in sure thing.

    "Draft an OT like Gallery and Chris Williams"
    "Draft a DT like Justin Harrell"
    "Draft a DE like Gaines Adams"
    "Draft a CB like Aaron Ross"

    The facct is every position is a risk. However, you do your homeworka nd fix what needs to be fixed. We don't have a QB!!!!!!
    Gaines Adams died. I don't think it's really fair to group him in with the others.

    Gallery, Chris Williams, Harrell, Ross, definitely busts. At least at the position they were drafted to play. Gallery has become a very good guard over the past few years.

  6. #26
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090974
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1090969
    It still makes me laugh when people point out the number of Qb bust that are in the first round. The act like every other position in sure thing.

    "Draft an OT like Gallery and Chris Williams"
    "Draft a DT like Justin Harrell"
    "Draft a DE like Gaines Adams"
    "Draft a CB like Aaron Ross"

    The facct is every position is a risk. However, you do your homeworka nd fix what needs to be fixed. We don't have a QB!!!!!!
    Gaines Adams died. I don't think it's really fair to group him in with the others.

    Gallery, Chris Williams, Harrell, Ross, definitely busts. At least at the position they were drafted to play. Gallery has become a very good guard over the past few years.
    Adams still wasn't very impressive for a first rounder. In three NFL seasons he managed 93 tackles and 13.5 sacks. Not horrible but not impressive for a highly touted draft prospect.

  7. #27
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Reggie Bush a bust?! well being picked that high I guess you can say so... but I've watched a lot of Saints games over the year and I was never a fan of him. But I will admit this... I know for a fact when you play the Saints and the way that offense is built, your game planning around Bush. I forgot the exact numbers but with Bush out the team averages like 6 some yards per completion and with him in they average about 10-12 yards a completion. Some players don't always have the pretty numbers but the way they indirectly make an offense better with simply their presence, I haven't seen anyone aside from the QB position do that better than Reggie. Like I said I don't like him I do think he's overpayed but that offense is 2X better with him in. Thats why they made that superbowl run with the year he was healthy and they went NFC championship game against the Bears when he was healthy.
    None

  8. #28
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by "b_sandhar_29" #1091035
    Reggie Bush a bust?! well being picked that high I guess you can say so... but I've watched a lot of Saints games over the year and I was never a fan of him. But I will admit this... I know for a fact when you play the Saints and the way that offense is built, your game planning around Bush. I forgot the exact numbers but with Bush out the team averages like 6 some yards per completion and with him in they average about 10-12 yards a completion. Some players don't always have the pretty numbers but the way they indirectly make an offense better with simply their presence, I haven't seen anyone aside from the QB position do that better than Reggie. Like I said I don't like him I do think he's overpayed but that offense is 2X better with him in. Thats why they made that superbowl run with the year he was healthy and they went NFC championship game against the Bears when he was healthy.


    As with everything else on PPO it comes back to one polarizing player who wore the purple and gold twice, Randy Moss. I would contend that Randy has the same affect on a defense. I would also say that he produced at a far higher level than where drafted. For me Bush is a dynamic and exciting player to watch, but there are a lot of guys who have produced at a much higher level than where they were taken in the draft. Houston apparently had a crystal ball when selecting Mario.

  9. #29
    b_sandhar_29 is offline Starter
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by "slavinator" #1091044
    Quote Originally Posted by "b_sandhar_29" #1091035
    Reggie Bush a bust?! well being picked that high I guess you can say so... but I've watched a lot of Saints games over the year and I was never a fan of him. But I will admit this... I know for a fact when you play the Saints and the way that offense is built, your game planning around Bush. I forgot the exact numbers but with Bush out the team averages like 6 some yards per completion and with him in they average about 10-12 yards a completion. Some players don't always have the pretty numbers but the way they indirectly make an offense better with simply their presence, I haven't seen anyone aside from the QB position do that better than Reggie. Like I said I don't like him I do think he's overpayed but that offense is 2X better with him in. Thats why they made that superbowl run with the year he was healthy and they went NFC championship game against the Bears when he was healthy.


    As with everything else on PPO it comes back to one polarizing player who wore the purple and gold twice, Randy Moss. I would contend that Randy has the same affect on a defense. I would also say that he produced at a far higher level than where drafted. For me Bush is a dynamic and exciting player to watch, but there are a lot of guys who have produced at a much higher level than where they were taken in the draft. Houston apparently had a crystal ball when selecting Mario.

    I know exactly what you mean and that was a very good example in Randy Moss. THE only reason I am defending Bush is because I know he's not playing at a pro bowl level, and hell he is even over-payed, but he is a very unique player. Even when I read Sean Payton's book after winning the superbowl when the topic came to the most valuable player it was not Vilma, Greer, Evans, or even Brees. It was Reggie Bush! I think his presence on the field for anyone other than a non Quarterback is amazing. I think because he is essentially a WR out of the backfield with the run after catch ability he has makes him the most dangerous player on the field and as a checkdown makes the linebackers respect his ability to make a small play big. When you have that kind of player on your team especially a non QB. It makes life for WRs to get open, easier for the QB to get rid of the ball, and relieves stress off the linemen. Having a linebacker covering someone like him is a mismatch every single time. Thats the kind of player when healthy his 2 years allowed the saints to make a run twice in the playoffs, one ended with a Lombardi. If you guys saw him in the playoffs the year they won the superbowl, I wouldn't consider him a bust.

    Of course opinion of a good player is someone who plays well consistently, but like I said he's a very unique case and the offensive scheme he is in is perfect for him because he is not a true RB.
    None

  10. #30
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    Pre-Draft Rankings.. Reliable or BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Mr Anderson" #1090974
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1090969
    It still makes me laugh when people point out the number of Qb bust that are in the first round. The act like every other position in sure thing.

    "Draft an OT like Gallery and Chris Williams"
    "Draft a DT like Justin Harrell"
    "Draft a DE like Gaines Adams"
    "Draft a CB like Aaron Ross"

    The facct is every position is a risk. However, you do your homeworka nd fix what needs to be fixed. We don't have a QB!!!!!!
    Gaines Adams died. I don't think it's really fair to group him in with the others.

    Gallery, Chris Williams, Harrell, Ross, definitely busts. At least at the position they were drafted to play. Gallery has become a very good guard over the past few years.
    I think your right and its unforunte he passed away but he was later traded for a second round pick to the Bears, he wasn't a bust, maybe a bit of a disappointment. Now a bust DE would be more like Erasmus James or Vernon Gholston both 1st rounders and well the Vikes atleast got a 7th for James inch:

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