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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Some added feedback:

    1. The PS rules are kind of funny. I believe as long as you have kept your 53 man roster full for 2 years you can slide players back and forth as you please to the PS dependent upon an individual players contract conditions. I really don't think Young has much potential to benefit the team on this crowded roster after the addition of Gerhart. In a close game he will only see the field if AD and Gerhart are injured, and in a blowout Reynaud can handle the Junk-time carries. Don't forget that AY never saw the ball last year unless we were up by 17 points. There will be no room on the roster for that kind of production this year. We should let AY go to a team where he has a chance to play.

    2. Gerhart will not be a dedicated Fullback, but, he will probably lead block (do some "fullbacking") about 10 times a game for AD out of a two back set. Gerharts real value is as the second HB in the classic SF 49ers WCO of the 80s and to give AD a blow when needed.

    3. No way Webb lasts a day on the Practice Squad if he shows any promise in the pre-season. This guy is a dream come true as a 4th or 5th WR who could develop into a quality starting WR in a couple years plus the daydreaming about his wildcat ability. (this guy is a "Football player")

    4. Just curious, what is the deal with Heath Farwell? I evidentley missed something last year. Is he projected to be not healthy for 2010?

    5. You are indeed correct...Longwell deserves the moniker of "Shortwell", he does not have a strong leg. I wonder if they will try Lloyd for FGs over 45 yards?

    6. Of course the DL is better...everyone returns, the coaching staff gets to work Griffen (a first round talent, gotta see if he is consistent) into the mix as well...I don't think Fat Pat is that worn down, and he should be in good form when it counts. Definitely better... And I know Marrdro will disagree here When Pat leaves, then they definitely take a step backwards.

    7. The linebackers still scare me, Shockey and Witten is too small a cross section to claim victory over TEs for 2010. With the general lack of speed at LB I will continue to be worried here.


    I really don't understand the focus on Fat Pat. I don't think this d-line is backpedaling every day Fat Pat gets out of bed again. I have big hopes for what Griffen potentially brings to the team/DLine, his versatility should add a nice wrinkle.
    1. I will defer to your knowledge of the PS and how it works. As to his playing time. Our 3rd down back doesn't see that much anyways, but we do carry 3 for a reason.

    Judging by size alone, DR seems to be in the right physical makeup to get a few reps even though he is on the small side a bit.

    7 Toby Gerhart RB 23 6-0 231 R Stanford
    -- Ian Johnson RB 23 5-11 212 1 Boise State
    -- James Johnson RB 25 5-11 205 1 Kansas State
    28 Adrian Peterson RB 25 6-1 217 4 Oklahoma
    34 Albert Young RB 25 5-10 209 2 Iowa
    82 Darius Reynaud WR 25 5-9 201 3 West Virginia

    My guess, they still go with 4 RBs this year.....

    AD
    TG
    AY
    DR

    2. I disagree. I don't think he will be used as a FB. If he is, it will be 1 maybe 2 plays a game, if that.

    3. Again, I agree with his talent level, I just don't see any team putting him on thier 53 man roster this year as that is what they would have to do if they took him from us. As I said, if he was that coveted, teams would have drafted him.

    4. I like to find a button and push it whenever I can. Heath is one of those buttons. On a side note, I do believe he is expendable though, mostly because his knee injury really slowed him down last year. We have young cats chomping to get on the roster, who can also contribute as starters/rotation guys. Having a cat like Heath on the roster, who can only contribute (and just barely now) on ST's is a wasted roster spot that we can't afford to burn.

    5. No comment.

    6. Phat Pat doesn't have to leave for the line to degrade. As with last year, it degraded everytime he took a rep off without a true NT in there to stuff the run, eat up blockers and collapse the pocket.

    I hear ya on Griff. Loved the pick, but only with respect to how we can use him in our base 4-3 as a LDE. In no way does he beef up our middle. DE's, by nature, play on the outside in our base, not on the inside.

    In case you haven't noticed, my concern for this position is mostly focused on the players and thier reps and hasn't included any discussion of the looming suspension.

    If that happens, we are completely screwed and everyone will quickly realize how crappy our backups really are when they are asked to start.
    1. We will see about young as a fourth RB...I thinbk they would likely carry a FB instead (even Tahi!). This roster will be tight.

    2. 1 to tWo plays as a HB/FB? or a true FB? I gotta think that Gerhart and AP are on the field together about 20 plays a game. With 40 percent being pass/runs by AD, 40% being pass plays and 20% being PASS/RUN with Gerhart using AP as a Decoy. Thats probably 7 plays right there where he probably blocks for AD if you buy into the 2 HB SF 49ers WCO style play calling.

    3. Webb was rated as a mid 5th round player and got drafted by us in the 6th round of a deep draft. Most reports say several other teams were hot to pick him up as well. I can think of several teams that would love to stash a guy like this on the roster (Bal, Cle, Was, Det, St L, Atl, Sea,etc etc etc...). Webb will command a 53 man roster slot if he shows any promise. I sound like a broken record

    4.agreed...wouldn't mind seeing a new punter or at least a competition to boot.

    5. Hate to drop a Farwell type player coming off of a pro bowl appearance. Is his knee serious?

    6. Agreed, without Pat on the line we take a step back. But, that's the same situation as last year. We are not any worse off for it. Don't be surprised if the coaching staff plays some real tricks with Griffen in the nickel package having him drop into coverage...or increasing the number of stunts they run with him in the game. Trust me, the defense got better if the coaching staff can keep Griffen focused.

    Let's agree not to talk "starcaps"...too depressing.
    2. If he has that many reps with AD on the field, how fresh will he be if he is rotating with AD. I think your banking a bit high on how many times we will see 2 RB sets. Even with CT in there we didn't see that many.

    Will we see it, yes, but just not to the numbers you are thinking.

    5. The Probowl is a farce. Anyone that thinks Farwell was deserving of that knod didn't really watch who was making all the ST's tackles last year as well as who was always late getting there.

    If he is such a leader on ST's, retire his ass and bring him back as a coach and put another fast, sure tackler on the ST's roster.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Marrdro wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Some added feedback:

    1. The PS rules are kind of funny. I believe as long as you have kept your 53 man roster full for 2 years you can slide players back and forth as you please to the PS dependent upon an individual players contract conditions. I really don't think Young has much potential to benefit the team on this crowded roster after the addition of Gerhart. In a close game he will only see the field if AD and Gerhart are injured, and in a blowout Reynaud can handle the Junk-time carries. Don't forget that AY never saw the ball last year unless we were up by 17 points. There will be no room on the roster for that kind of production this year. We should let AY go to a team where he has a chance to play.

    2. Gerhart will not be a dedicated Fullback, but, he will probably lead block (do some "fullbacking") about 10 times a game for AD out of a two back set. Gerharts real value is as the second HB in the classic SF 49ers WCO of the 80s and to give AD a blow when needed.

    3. No way Webb lasts a day on the Practice Squad if he shows any promise in the pre-season. This guy is a dream come true as a 4th or 5th WR who could develop into a quality starting WR in a couple years plus the daydreaming about his wildcat ability. (this guy is a "Football player")

    4. Just curious, what is the deal with Heath Farwell? I evidentley missed something last year. Is he projected to be not healthy for 2010?

    5. You are indeed correct...Longwell deserves the moniker of "Shortwell", he does not have a strong leg. I wonder if they will try Lloyd for FGs over 45 yards?

    6. Of course the DL is better...everyone returns, the coaching staff gets to work Griffen (a first round talent, gotta see if he is consistent) into the mix as well...I don't think Fat Pat is that worn down, and he should be in good form when it counts. Definitely better... And I know Marrdro will disagree here When Pat leaves, then they definitely take a step backwards.

    7. The linebackers still scare me, Shockey and Witten is too small a cross section to claim victory over TEs for 2010. With the general lack of speed at LB I will continue to be worried here.


    I really don't understand the focus on Fat Pat. I don't think this d-line is backpedaling every day Fat Pat gets out of bed again. I have big hopes for what Griffen potentially brings to the team/DLine, his versatility should add a nice wrinkle.
    1. I will defer to your knowledge of the PS and how it works. As to his playing time. Our 3rd down back doesn't see that much anyways, but we do carry 3 for a reason.

    Judging by size alone, DR seems to be in the right physical makeup to get a few reps even though he is on the small side a bit.

    7 Toby Gerhart RB 23 6-0 231 R Stanford
    -- Ian Johnson RB 23 5-11 212 1 Boise State
    -- James Johnson RB 25 5-11 205 1 Kansas State
    28 Adrian Peterson RB 25 6-1 217 4 Oklahoma
    34 Albert Young RB 25 5-10 209 2 Iowa
    82 Darius Reynaud WR 25 5-9 201 3 West Virginia

    My guess, they still go with 4 RBs this year.....

    AD
    TG
    AY
    DR

    2. I disagree. I don't think he will be used as a FB. If he is, it will be 1 maybe 2 plays a game, if that.

    3. Again, I agree with his talent level, I just don't see any team putting him on thier 53 man roster this year as that is what they would have to do if they took him from us. As I said, if he was that coveted, teams would have drafted him.

    4. I like to find a button and push it whenever I can. Heath is one of those buttons. On a side note, I do believe he is expendable though, mostly because his knee injury really slowed him down last year. We have young cats chomping to get on the roster, who can also contribute as starters/rotation guys. Having a cat like Heath on the roster, who can only contribute (and just barely now) on ST's is a wasted roster spot that we can't afford to burn.

    5. No comment.

    6. Phat Pat doesn't have to leave for the line to degrade. As with last year, it degraded everytime he took a rep off without a true NT in there to stuff the run, eat up blockers and collapse the pocket.

    I hear ya on Griff. Loved the pick, but only with respect to how we can use him in our base 4-3 as a LDE. In no way does he beef up our middle. DE's, by nature, play on the outside in our base, not on the inside.

    In case you haven't noticed, my concern for this position is mostly focused on the players and thier reps and hasn't included any discussion of the looming suspension.

    If that happens, we are completely screwed and everyone will quickly realize how crappy our backups really are when they are asked to start.
    1. We will see about young as a fourth RB...I thinbk they would likely carry a FB instead (even Tahi!). This roster will be tight.

    2. 1 to tWo plays as a HB/FB? or a true FB? I gotta think that Gerhart and AP are on the field together about 20 plays a game. With 40 percent being pass/runs by AD, 40% being pass plays and 20% being PASS/RUN with Gerhart using AP as a Decoy. Thats probably 7 plays right there where he probably blocks for AD if you buy into the 2 HB SF 49ers WCO style play calling.

    3. Webb was rated as a mid 5th round player and got drafted by us in the 6th round of a deep draft. Most reports say several other teams were hot to pick him up as well. I can think of several teams that would love to stash a guy like this on the roster (Bal, Cle, Was, Det, St L, Atl, Sea,etc etc etc...). Webb will command a 53 man roster slot if he shows any promise. I sound like a broken record

    4.agreed...wouldn't mind seeing a new punter or at least a competition to boot.

    5. Hate to drop a Farwell type player coming off of a pro bowl appearance. Is his knee serious?

    6. Agreed, without Pat on the line we take a step back. But, that's the same situation as last year. We are not any worse off for it. Don't be surprised if the coaching staff plays some real tricks with Griffen in the nickel package having him drop into coverage...or increasing the number of stunts they run with him in the game. Trust me, the defense got better if the coaching staff can keep Griffen focused.

    Let's agree not to talk "starcaps"...too depressing.
    2. If he has that many reps with AD on the field, how fresh will he be if he is rotating with AD. I think your banking a bit high on how many times we will see 2 RB sets. Even with CT in there we didn't see that many.

    Will we see it, yes, but just not to the numbers you are thinking.

    5. The Probowl is a farce. Anyone that thinks Farwell was deserving of that knod didn't really watch who was making all the ST's tackles last year as well as who was always late getting there.

    If he is such a leader on ST's, retire his ass and bring him back as a coach and put another fast, sure tackler on the ST's roster.
    2. With about 62 offensive plays a game (excluding punts) I think Gerhart can handle 20 plays with AD and 15 to 20 without. I would project AP for about 45 to 50 of those 62 plays a game. If we run about 60% a split backfield (2HBs ala 49ers WCO) these numbers should be just about right. Gerharts numbers would go down if we keep Tahi on the team.

    You want to maximize the talent on the field and this would accomplish that nicely. Until we see a 4th WR emerge, I think we see the Split backfield more often with Gerhart.

    Again, offensive coordinators dream about creating matchup problems and spreading the defense. Gerhart just became our new tool to do just that. He will see the field more often than you think this year. Increasing as he develops a relationship with Favre.

    Don't project Gerhart's participation based on Taylor's past performance. Gerhart is a better player and will demand more playing time.

    5. I will defer to you on Farwell, I really didn't pay much attention to our coverage teams last year. And if he has lost a step he will probably be cut with his marginal contributions on defense.
    None

  3. #13
    gagarr's Avatar
    gagarr is offline Team Alumni
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    I'm hoping Childress is pondering "How do I keep the players fresh for a 19, or hopefully not, 20 game season."

    Especially with an early bye week this is going to be a LONG haul for older vets.

    Starters: Favre, Pat, Winny, Hutch, Leber, McKinnie, Herrera, Shank, EJ, KW will all be over 30 at the start of the season. Longwell too but I'm not worried about him much.

    Having a good enough record to win the division and get a first round bye is VERY important, as IMO it was a big factor in the Dallas game.

    How do you handle it?
    Tough conditioning TC?
    Easy TC so you don't add to the wear and tear?
    Risk poorer play by increasing rotations?

    Seems like Chilly took it easy on them last year in TC and bye weeks.
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  4. #14
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Feels like the Favre returns. That gives us 3 vets, or maybe, if we can get something in trade and one impresses, maybe, we keep one of the UDFAs instead.

    My feeling is that the OL should be better just by having more time on field together, more experience for the 2 2nd year starters, and Hutch coming back strong and healthy. The same could happen at S where Tyrell could have a breakout season in year 3. I'm not sure what to think of Madieu, but Sanford just might get better too.

    Our defense as is held the best offense in football to 260 total yards on their turf and including overtime! They destroyed Dallas in the playoffs. Over the regular season we were No.1 in sacks and No.2 vs. the run.

    A bigger faster CB and LDE (who can possibly rush some from DT on passing downs also) not only makes our depth/rotation better, but sets us up in the case of Winny's decline, Griffin's recovery, and Ray moving on. Hell if Montgomery and Griffen looks good, maybe we trade Ray...? I'm thinking we'll keep 6 CBs, but Griff might be on PUP to start...?

    Usually when our defense fails us, it is because our offense did first...turnovers, 3 and outs, etc lead to our defense on field too long...Eventually, somebody gets beat, thats the nature of the beast since the O has a plan and the D has to react to it.

    If we thought cuts were tough last year, that was nothing! We've already added an extra kicker, thats one gone. Last year we kept 6 LBs and 6 WRs. I don't see that happening again...esp with Reynaud providing multi-depth from RB. If we keep Webb at WR, we may see Lewis and JJ go...

    Keeping 4 RBs seems unlikely as well...I guess we'd have to drop one of our TE/FB guys. Not sure, but I think Albert might have too many active games to go back to PS...? With AP and TB we've got the Powerbacks covered, so we'll need one of the shiftier guys for the change of pace/scat back role. Sure, Harvin gets some of those too, but with his talent/use at WR and Migraines, we need another guy in that mold. ATM, my guess is AY and/or Tahi are gone.

    I think we might use Gerhart with AP as a FB option once in a while, but I don'e see it happening 20 times a game. I think Toby will see more of Chester's reps, as an all around 3rd down guy who can be relied upon to take out a blitzing LB, and to grind out games we've got a hold on. The more I think about it, the more I see Gerhart as more of an AY upgrade, and Harvin, Ian, or Reynaud as a "weapon." Hell, maybe Webb could get some carries too...

    "When we start to come down the board, you can say, 'Well, he's the best this or he's the best that.' But you want to know how well-rounded is he?" Childress said of the thought process. "Has he ever played on special teams? Do we think he's got an aptitude to play on special teams? Has he contributed? Rick gives them a special-teams grade. So, yeah, you can't just be a one-dimensional guy when you only have 45 guys on the roster. You can't just be a one-spot guy."
    Goona be tough for anybody past Degeare and/or Webb to make this roster. Probably PS guys, unless one of the LBs impresses as both ST and, FB (DiImperio) or MLB (Triplett).

    Then we have the TE/FB hybrid we seem to like. Dugan has at least been a versatile, solid blocker. Mills hasn't shown much other than a couple of ST Doh!s. Shank is rising star and Jimmy is often needed to help the OL. It would seem that Mills would be the odd man out if Shuler impresses.

    All in all, not many roster changes expected! Looks like we'll be crossing our fingers on more than a couple of these guys making it through a year on PS, but really, thats a good problem to have!! :cheer: :woohoo:
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Some added feedback:

    1. The PS rules are kind of funny. I believe as long as you have kept your 53 man roster full for 2 years you can slide players back and forth as you please to the PS dependent upon an individual players contract conditions. I really don't think Young has much potential to benefit the team on this crowded roster after the addition of Gerhart. In a close game he will only see the field if AD and Gerhart are injured, and in a blowout Reynaud can handle the Junk-time carries. Don't forget that AY never saw the ball last year unless we were up by 17 points. There will be no room on the roster for that kind of production this year. We should let AY go to a team where he has a chance to play.

    2. Gerhart will not be a dedicated Fullback, but, he will probably lead block (do some "fullbacking") about 10 times a game for AD out of a two back set. Gerharts real value is as the second HB in the classic SF 49ers WCO of the 80s and to give AD a blow when needed.

    3. No way Webb lasts a day on the Practice Squad if he shows any promise in the pre-season. This guy is a dream come true as a 4th or 5th WR who could develop into a quality starting WR in a couple years plus the daydreaming about his wildcat ability. (this guy is a "Football player")

    4. Just curious, what is the deal with Heath Farwell? I evidentley missed something last year. Is he projected to be not healthy for 2010?

    5. You are indeed correct...Longwell deserves the moniker of "Shortwell", he does not have a strong leg. I wonder if they will try Lloyd for FGs over 45 yards?

    6. Of course the DL is better...everyone returns, the coaching staff gets to work Griffen (a first round talent, gotta see if he is consistent) into the mix as well...I don't think Fat Pat is that worn down, and he should be in good form when it counts. Definitely better... And I know Marrdro will disagree here When Pat leaves, then they definitely take a step backwards.

    7. The linebackers still scare me, Shockey and Witten is too small a cross section to claim victory over TEs for 2010. With the general lack of speed at LB I will continue to be worried here.


    I really don't understand the focus on Fat Pat. I don't think this d-line is backpedaling every day Fat Pat gets out of bed again. I have big hopes for what Griffen potentially brings to the team/DLine, his versatility should add a nice wrinkle.
    1. I will defer to your knowledge of the PS and how it works. As to his playing time. Our 3rd down back doesn't see that much anyways, but we do carry 3 for a reason.

    Judging by size alone, DR seems to be in the right physical makeup to get a few reps even though he is on the small side a bit.

    7 Toby Gerhart RB 23 6-0 231 R Stanford
    -- Ian Johnson RB 23 5-11 212 1 Boise State
    -- James Johnson RB 25 5-11 205 1 Kansas State
    28 Adrian Peterson RB 25 6-1 217 4 Oklahoma
    34 Albert Young RB 25 5-10 209 2 Iowa
    82 Darius Reynaud WR 25 5-9 201 3 West Virginia

    My guess, they still go with 4 RBs this year.....

    AD
    TG
    AY
    DR

    2. I disagree. I don't think he will be used as a FB. If he is, it will be 1 maybe 2 plays a game, if that.

    3. Again, I agree with his talent level, I just don't see any team putting him on thier 53 man roster this year as that is what they would have to do if they took him from us. As I said, if he was that coveted, teams would have drafted him.

    4. I like to find a button and push it whenever I can. Heath is one of those buttons. On a side note, I do believe he is expendable though, mostly because his knee injury really slowed him down last year. We have young cats chomping to get on the roster, who can also contribute as starters/rotation guys. Having a cat like Heath on the roster, who can only contribute (and just barely now) on ST's is a wasted roster spot that we can't afford to burn.

    5. No comment.

    6. Phat Pat doesn't have to leave for the line to degrade. As with last year, it degraded everytime he took a rep off without a true NT in there to stuff the run, eat up blockers and collapse the pocket.

    I hear ya on Griff. Loved the pick, but only with respect to how we can use him in our base 4-3 as a LDE. In no way does he beef up our middle. DE's, by nature, play on the outside in our base, not on the inside.

    In case you haven't noticed, my concern for this position is mostly focused on the players and thier reps and hasn't included any discussion of the looming suspension.

    If that happens, we are completely screwed and everyone will quickly realize how crappy our backups really are when they are asked to start.
    1. We will see about young as a fourth RB...I thinbk they would likely carry a FB instead (even Tahi!). This roster will be tight.

    2. 1 to tWo plays as a HB/FB? or a true FB? I gotta think that Gerhart and AP are on the field together about 20 plays a game. With 40 percent being pass/runs by AD, 40% being pass plays and 20% being PASS/RUN with Gerhart using AP as a Decoy. Thats probably 7 plays right there where he probably blocks for AD if you buy into the 2 HB SF 49ers WCO style play calling.

    3. Webb was rated as a mid 5th round player and got drafted by us in the 6th round of a deep draft. Most reports say several other teams were hot to pick him up as well. I can think of several teams that would love to stash a guy like this on the roster (Bal, Cle, Was, Det, St L, Atl, Sea,etc etc etc...). Webb will command a 53 man roster slot if he shows any promise. I sound like a broken record

    4.agreed...wouldn't mind seeing a new punter or at least a competition to boot.

    5. Hate to drop a Farwell type player coming off of a pro bowl appearance. Is his knee serious?

    6. Agreed, without Pat on the line we take a step back. But, that's the same situation as last year. We are not any worse off for it. Don't be surprised if the coaching staff plays some real tricks with Griffen in the nickel package having him drop into coverage...or increasing the number of stunts they run with him in the game. Trust me, the defense got better if the coaching staff can keep Griffen focused.

    Let's agree not to talk "starcaps"...too depressing.
    2. If he has that many reps with AD on the field, how fresh will he be if he is rotating with AD. I think your banking a bit high on how many times we will see 2 RB sets. Even with CT in there we didn't see that many.

    Will we see it, yes, but just not to the numbers you are thinking.

    5. The Probowl is a farce. Anyone that thinks Farwell was deserving of that knod didn't really watch who was making all the ST's tackles last year as well as who was always late getting there.

    If he is such a leader on ST's, retire his ass and bring him back as a coach and put another fast, sure tackler on the ST's roster.
    2. With about 62 offensive plays a game (excluding punts) I think Gerhart can handle 20 plays with AD and 15 to 20 without. I would project AP for about 45 to 50 of those 62 plays a game. If we run about 60% a split backfield (2HBs ala 49ers WCO) these numbers should be just about right. Gerharts numbers would go down if we keep Tahi on the team.

    You want to maximize the talent on the field and this would accomplish that nicely. Until we see a 4th WR emerge, I think we see the Split backfield more often with Gerhart.

    Again, offensive coordinators dream about creating matchup problems and spreading the defense. Gerhart just became our new tool to do just that. He will see the field more often than you think this year. Increasing as he develops a relationship with Favre.

    Don't project Gerhart's participation based on Taylor's past performance. Gerhart is a better player and will demand more playing time.

    5. I will defer to you on Farwell, I really didn't pay much attention to our coverage teams last year. And if he has lost a step he will probably be cut with his marginal contributions on defense.
    2. I'm not disagreeing with you on TG's skillset. I'm just saying that I don't think you will see the 2 RB set you think the staff is gonna use.

    5. I can't believe the Farwell crotch sniffers (CSA'rs) haven't chimed in on me bashing thier boy.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    On a side note, this sure has turned into a damn fine thread.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    mountainviking's Avatar
    mountainviking is offline Team Alumni
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    OK, Marrdro, I'll be your huckleberry!

    Actually, 19 tackles for a STer recovering from major knee surgery really ain't all bad! The ST leading tackler on a team usually comes in around 25, I'd guess...thats only 6 less.

    There are a crapload of knee injuries out here in ski country, and I can't tell you how many dozens of times I've heard the old adage about taking at least a full year to recover from ACL etc surgery. I think Farwell has a pretty good chance of playing better this upcoming season just by being that 15 or 20% healthier!

    How's that!?

    :P
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    mountainviking wrote:
    OK, Marrdro, I'll be your huckleberry!
    Of all the versions of that show, that one, is the one I liked the best.

    Actually, 19 tackles for a STer recovering from major knee surgery really ain't all bad! The ST leading tackler on a team usually comes in around 25, I'd guess...thats only 6 less.

    There are a crapload of knee injuries out here in ski country, and I can't tell you how many dozens of times I've heard the old adage about taking at least a full year to recover from ACL etc surgery. I think Farwell has a pretty good chance of playing better this upcoming season just by being that 15 or 20% healthier!

    How's that!?

    :P
    Don't let the 19 tackles mislead you. He did get some while he was on the field for mop up duties.

    Better go back and do a bit more research my friend if your gonna try to pull the wool over my little beady eyes. :woohoo:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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