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  1. #1
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Regardless of how you feel about the draft - good, bad, or indifferent – you should feel pretty good going into the 2010 season.

    Offense

    QB-Quarterback

    Let’s all hope that Favre’s ankle is good enough to bring him into camp “Early” this year.

    I won’t even get into who will start if Favre retires. However, it will be interesting to see how well Archer or Perrilloux comes along in training camp to see if the team would be willing to trade Sage. While unlikely as that may sound, it’s probably the only way either makes the roster. Their will be one heck of a battle for even practice squad spots this year, and the Vikings have a lot more invested in other players and uncertainty at other positions to forsee a QB taking a PS roster spot if Favre makes the team.

    I really hope Perrilloux comes on strong enough in training camp to encourage the Vikings to trade Sage and beef-up one of their weaker positions.

    RB - Running Back


    By drafting Gerhart, the Vikings now have a RB tandem that could easily dominate the NFL for the next 5 years and will help solidify this offense even after Favre retires.
    With Gerhart on the roster the Vikings will likely play more 2 RB sets reminiscent of the SF 49ers WCO of old. Both RBs are threats to run the ball up the middle or catch the ball out of the backfield. Combine this with Gerhart projecting as a capable blocking FB and the added ability to line-up Harvin in the backfield and send him in motion and we have the potential for another significant step forward for the Vikings offense. This was a major hole in the WCO that has been run by the Vikings in the past, but, now with the right personnel to run the WCO it should really get interesting.

    3RD Running Back Spot

    With AP and Gerhart commanding the top 2 RB positions the competition for the 3rd running back spot will be intense.

    Reynaud – As a Punt Returner/3rd down only RB/Trash Time RB
    Reynaud is a better option than Young or the Johnsons. RB/SLOT Receiver is probably a better position for Reynaud, while he has great hands and play making ability he doesn’t have the route running ability to ever be a major contributor at WR. Note that Reynaud gets a bump as the KR behind Harvin as well, with teams kicking away from Harvin more often late in the year Reynauds value to the team gets a bump.

    Ian Johnson – Ideal RB for a practice squad, versatile player with great physical tools to simulate many RBs and is good pass catcher…I would keep trying to develop Johnson with his superior skills over V Young. With his slight frame and running skills not likely to help him carve out a starting RB role in the NFL (especially behind AD/Gerhart), I think they will keep Ian around to push Reynaud for the 3rd down RB role.

    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and

    Reynaud could take care of “mop-up” duties just as easily.

    With the FO having invested a draft pick in Reynaud, combined with his big play ability and his ability to return punts I have to think this position is his to lose.

    Depending on the coaching staffs confidence in Reynaud there may be no need to go after a FA RB, especially with AD’s improvement in the passing game and Gerhart’s ability to confront blitzing LBs.

    Conclusion, if Gerhart is as good as advertised and Reynaud adapts well to a 3rd down role the Vikings should have the playmaking ability and bone crunching impact that defensive teams fear.

    FB- Fullback

    This will be a very interesting position this offseason, while Gerhart looks to be a perfect compliment for AP, Gerhart makes more since as a feature back running behind a lead blocker. And make no mistake, when AP is getting his breather on the bench Gerhart will the feature back. The FB position will not disappear. However, the Vikings may fill this need much more creatively than anyone may think. We could very easily be saying goodbye to FB as a fulltime position and thus Tahi from the team and welcome in a FB by committee.

    Look at all of the part time FBs on the roster, if Kleinsausser, Dugan, and Mills were not enough we drafted Triplett and Diempero with rumors that they are being looked at to play FB as well.

    This will be the most entertaining position during the preseason for me. If there are still any teams that would value Tahi’s services it’s time to make a trade. I don’t know what we would get for him, but, if it could help us upgrade at any other position they should take it, even, if it meant we had to eat a substantial salary for a veteran player so be it if Tahi would be enough to get them to turn him loose.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs. Just like FB, this will be an interesting position this offseason. Who will be able to keep a roster spot? Shiancoe, Kleinsausser, Dugan, Mills and Shuler…that’s a long list of players trying to make the roster. It’s made even more cloudy by the two LB/FBs that the team drafted as well.

    I think that only Shank has a guaranteed roster spot. Kleinsausser is hanging around as a superior blocker (almost an O-lineman himself) with everyone else
    Shuler is supposed to be a quality red zone target, and with Favre’s predisposition to TEs in the red zone that may be enough for him to make the team.

    Dugan and Mills should be getting pointers on how to be a fullback if they want to make the roster.
    Again, it will be interesting to see how this plays out in conjunction with the FB position.

    WR – Wide receiver

    There is no question that Rice, Harvin, and Berrian will make this team. But with Percy’s migraines and Bernard’s hamstrings it wouldn’t hurt to have another impact WR waiting in the wings.

    After the top 3 it may be more up in the air than we think as to who that potential impact WR may be.

    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    Webb has the ability to be a major contributor on special teams and will probably surprise people as a 4th receiver on the field. He is a superior athlete who should be able to pick-up the limited responsibilities of a 3rd or 4th WR on the field much more quickly than most people think. Remember, we won’t ask him to step into a starting WR slot, and if he can catch the ball reliably and develops good route running habits he could be a very effective WR as 4th or 5th on our depth chart.

    The big question is who will win out between Jaymar and Lewis? Jaymar, was never known as a good route runner and his real contribution is on special teams as a Punt Returner. Greg Lewis is a veteran player recognized for his route running skills. If the team keeps Reynaud as a RB and is confident that they have a back-up quality PR on the team then Jaymar could be the odd man out.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.

    OL - Offensive Line

    Instead of complaining about how much better of we would be if we drafted differently or complaining about how some players are on the decline and others were never any good, I have only one opinion of our OLine as it stands now…More Depth!!! More Depth!!! More Depth!!!

    I never expected any player we could afford in the draft to make a real difference, especially in his first year, however, having Cook and Degeare as primary back-ups doesn’t make me feel comfortable after losing Hicks.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Degeare can be a monster interior lineman down the road. He was moved from OG to OT for his senior season and I think some scouts were down on him for his 2008 redshirt year and Academic concerns. If you look at this guy he is a monster and will definitely push for playing time as the season goes on.

    A FA signing (Faneca) or a bold trade bringing us a savvy Veteran would make me feel a lot better about the offensive line.

    Offensive Unit as a whole

    As a whole I think Gerhart’s addition combined with Favre’s return can put this team over the top as the best offensive unit in the NFL. The only area of great concern is Offensive line depth, with an added injection of talent/depth on the o-line this unit could easily challenge for one of best all time offensive teams.

    Special Teams

    Well, the team has made great strides over the last few years and by signing Rhys they should continue to get better, while there is room for improvement it is unlikely the team focuses any more effort in this area as it would be difficult to improve in this area.

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league and should be a staple until his performance tails-off and Lloyd should put up some ridiculous numbers in domes.

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter. Kluwe was one of the worst punters in the league at downing the ball inside the 20 and average in other aspects. The team should at least invite a quality punter or two into camp for a competition to keep Kluwe on top of his game.

    Harvin is a beast on KO returns, so much so that teams started kicking away from him.

    This is an amazingly talented team, with the addition of
    Lloyd every roster position is even more crucial and more difficult to keep. Loeffler could be in a bad spot if another position player can cover his LS responsibilities. If
    Sullivan, Cook, Cooper and Herrera can all play Center, can one of them cover the LS duties as well? I still wouldn’t be surprised to see Loeffler make the team as LS is truly a specialists job.

    Griffen, Webb, Shepard, Diempero, Triplett and Cook mark a substantial increase in team speed that should be available for special teams (coverage/return) as well. This type of improvement is difficult to forecast, but, I have to think that the special teams coach is chomping at the bit to find out if these guys have what it takes to play on special teams.

    If they replaced Kluwe with a better Punter then I think the Vikings would have a leg-up for best Special Teams unit in the league.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line

    While many wanted us to draft a defensive tackle in the draft, it was mostly looking forward to the future. This team is loaded on the defensive line and especially at Defensive End. With Edwards playing for a contract and the addition of Griffen the only thing that can slow this group down would be a “Starcaps” suspension.

    DEs Allen, Edwards, Robison, and Griffen are locks to make the team. The question is, do we keep Mitchell or Montgomery? or both? By drafting Griffen, one of these guys has got to go.

    The Williams Wall is the Williams Wall. Kennedy has something to prove as well so he should make the interior of the line solid. The question is, who is active on game day and who is relegated to the 53 man roster? Evans should make the 45 man roster and I think Guion has a chance to make the 53 man roster ,but, maybe not if the Coaching staff would rather have a DE heavy line.

    I would not be surprised to see the Vikings take advantage of Everson Griffens unique athletic ability and utilize him as a DE/OLB in passing situations. His speed is better than his combine results. He ran as low as a 4.46 in high school and coaches refer to his sub 4.6 speed (4.59 at pro-day), that would make him the fastest LB on the team! (Much less DE). Great teams adapt to the talent they have available, if Griffen can handle the NFL we may see some interesting changes on the defensive side of the ball.

    LB-Linebackers

    While we didn’t add any Top Level talent to the Linebacker corps we may not need it. EJ Henderson’s health status will be key to the Vikings success this year.
    Look for Greenway, Leber, Henderson and Brinkley to form a solid LB core for this team. Farwell is also a Pro-Bowl Special Teams player so pencil him in as well. After those five it should be a real battle between Onatolu, Leman,Triplett, and Diempero to make the team, especially if we take advantage of Everson Griffen’s athletic ability and work him out at LB as well.

    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.

    I have read many conflicting reports on Triplett as a LB but have noted he is a beast on Special Teams and will just assume he is a good match for the Vikings D , Diempero actually projects as a practice squad FB and neither Onatolu or Leman have the speed you would look for to handle TEs in the NFL or to succeed in the Tampa 2 base defense so don’t be surprised if Triplett and/or Diempero make the squad based on their speed and flexibility.

    If a top-end coverage LB became available, he would also be a great addition to the team.

    DB- Defensive Backs

    Injuries were not good to the Vikings last year, but, if Griffin comes back healthy this should be a very deep group. Add to that depth the potential of Chris Cook , the experience of Lito Shepard and an extra year of experience for the young safeties and this group may be a pleasant surprise this year.

    This team is now loaded at CB with Winfield, Griffin, Cook, Shepard, Allen and Sapp. Unless Cook or Shepard step up and take over a starting CB spot I would expect to see all 6 CBs on the roster all year.

    Griffin may start the year on the PUP list, but, when he comes back I think Abdullah or Frampton will have to be let go unless there is an injured player.

    The safeties will be anchored by Williams and Johnson with support from Sanford. Abdullah or more likely Frampton will make the 53 man roster but not the 45 man gameday roster.

    Without a shut-down corner this unit will never be elite, but, they will be a more solid group this year if they don’t have the injuries that plagued them last year. If a quality veteran safety becomes available it would be a good addition to the team.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.

    I try to keep in mind that the Vikings gave up a lot of easy yards and points last year as a result of being ahead in games so often and playing “prevent” defenses to slow down the offense and not necessarily trying to stop the other team.

    I would not be surprised to see the Vikings take advantage of Everson Griffens unique athletic ability and utilize him as a DE/OLB in passing situations. His speed is touted as being better than his combine results. He ran as low as a 4.46 in high school and coaches refer to his sub 4.6 speed, that would make him the fastest LB on the team! (Much less DE).

    Team as a whole…

    The overall team grades out very well, with Gerhart’s addition the Vikings should be able to sustain long drives even more consistently this year, combine that with a more effective defensive secondary and a defensive line that’s been made even more deadly and you have a team ready to make big things happen in 2010.

    The Vikings had the 33rd ranked offense of all time last year with a 1st year QB in Favre, a feature back with fumblitis in AD, a rookie WR in Harvin, an often injured WR2 in Berrian, a lackluster year by Chester Taylor, two new offensive lineman and three other offensive linemen that all suffered some type of physical setbacks last year. If these dudes can just get their act together they may be pretty good. Or maybe the 33rd ranked offense all time is pretty good already.

    The special teams will be better with Lloyd for sure, but, they could use an upgrade at Punter as well.

    The defense should be even better this year as well, but, they have one heck of a schedule to go up against this year which may not show that improvement statistically as much as we hope for.

    Overall, the defensive unit will be the deciding factor in the Vikings improvement as a team next year and the overall success of the team. If they can bring the secondary and linebacking units up to the level of the defensive line this team will be the odds-on favorite to win it all.

    So, going forward, I can only see limited ability for the team to improve for the 2010 year:
    1. Offensive Line Depth
    2. Better Punter
    3. Veteran Coverage Linebacker
    4. Proven Veteran Safety
    5. Veteran 3rd down RB

    It will be interesting to see what moves the team makes before game 1. The off-season is not over yet!
    None

  2. #2
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #3
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Marrdro wrote:
    [quote]Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Jimmy Kennedy is poised to take Pat's spot and thrive. I love that guy.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  4. #4
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Zeus wrote:
    [quote]Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Jimmy Kennedy is poised to take Pat's spot and thrive. I love that guy.

    =Z=
    You might be correct. Problem is, even if he does, for how long?

    He is of the same draft class as Kevin and they have Guion being groomed for that spot already. Were is JK's replacement?

    Look, I like JK and was very happy to see him finally accept what he is, (a DT) , at the next level, but he is still more of a 3/4 Technique DT and not a NT and even if he was, who comes in for him?

    Robinson? Hes a RDE.
    Evans? Another DT that showed enough to get Guion drafted.

    Standby to standby if we continue to give up runs like we saw last year when Phat Pat wasn't in there. Won't matter how bad our secondary is cause they won't be challenged as teams will just run all over us.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #5
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Marrdro wrote:
    [quote]Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Jimmy Kennedy is poised to take Pat's spot and thrive. I love that guy.
    You might be correct. Problem is, even if he does, for how long?

    He is of the same draft class as Kevin and they have Guion being groomed for that spot already. Were is JK's replacement?

    Look, I like JK and was very happy to see him finally accept what he is, (a DT) , at the next level, but he is still more of a 3/4 Technique DT and not a NT and even if he was, who comes in for him?

    Robinson? Hes a RDE.
    Evans? Another DT that showed enough to get Guion drafted.

    Standby to standby if we continue to give up runs like we saw last year when Phat Pat wasn't in there. Won't matter how bad our secondary is cause they won't be challenged as teams will just run all over us.
    Who's Robinson? Ohhh - you mean Robison! (Sorry, can't get a "cat's" name right, that's disrespect, in my book).

    The long runs given up last year were around the ends, not up the middle. Specifically, on delays after letting Jared rush up field and then cutting behind him. That's an LB's job to stop those, not a DT.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  6. #6
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Some added feedback:

    1. The PS rules are kind of funny. I believe as long as you have kept your 53 man roster full for 2 years you can slide players back and forth as you please to the PS dependent upon an individual players contract conditions. I really don't think Young has much potential to benefit the team on this crowded roster after the addition of Gerhart. In a close game he will only see the field if AD and Gerhart are injured, and in a blowout Reynaud can handle the Junk-time carries. Don't forget that AY never saw the ball last year unless we were up by 17 points. There will be no room on the roster for that kind of production this year. We should let AY go to a team where he has a chance to play.

    2. Gerhart will not be a dedicated Fullback, but, he will probably lead block (do some "fullbacking") about 10 times a game for AD out of a two back set. Gerharts real value is as the second HB in the classic SF 49ers WCO of the 80s and to give AD a blow when needed.

    3. No way Webb lasts a day on the Practice Squad if he shows any promise in the pre-season. This guy is a dream come true as a 4th or 5th WR who could develop into a quality starting WR in a couple years plus the daydreaming about his wildcat ability. (this guy is a "Football player")

    4. Just curious, what is the deal with Heath Farwell? I evidentley missed something last year. Is he projected to be not healthy for 2010?

    5. You are indeed correct...Longwell deserves the moniker of "Shortwell", he does not have a strong leg. I wonder if they will try Lloyd for FGs over 45 yards?

    6. Of course the DL is better...everyone returns, the coaching staff gets to work Griffen (a first round talent, gotta see if he is consistent) into the mix as well...I don't think Fat Pat is that worn down, and he should be in good form when it counts. Definitely better... And I know Marrdro will disagree here When Pat leaves, then they definitely take a step backwards.

    7. The linebackers still scare me, Shockey and Witten is too small a cross section to claim victory over TEs for 2010. With the general lack of speed at LB I will continue to be worried here.


    I really don't understand the focus on Fat Pat. I don't think this d-line is backpedaling every day Fat Pat gets out of bed again. I have big hopes for what Griffen potentially brings to the team/DLine, his versatility should add a nice wrinkle.
    None

  7. #7
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Some added feedback:

    1. The PS rules are kind of funny. I believe as long as you have kept your 53 man roster full for 2 years you can slide players back and forth as you please to the PS dependent upon an individual players contract conditions. I really don't think Young has much potential to benefit the team on this crowded roster after the addition of Gerhart. In a close game he will only see the field if AD and Gerhart are injured, and in a blowout Reynaud can handle the Junk-time carries. Don't forget that AY never saw the ball last year unless we were up by 17 points. There will be no room on the roster for that kind of production this year. We should let AY go to a team where he has a chance to play.

    2. Gerhart will not be a dedicated Fullback, but, he will probably lead block (do some "fullbacking") about 10 times a game for AD out of a two back set. Gerharts real value is as the second HB in the classic SF 49ers WCO of the 80s and to give AD a blow when needed.

    3. No way Webb lasts a day on the Practice Squad if he shows any promise in the pre-season. This guy is a dream come true as a 4th or 5th WR who could develop into a quality starting WR in a couple years plus the daydreaming about his wildcat ability. (this guy is a "Football player")

    4. Just curious, what is the deal with Heath Farwell? I evidentley missed something last year. Is he projected to be not healthy for 2010?

    5. You are indeed correct...Longwell deserves the moniker of "Shortwell", he does not have a strong leg. I wonder if they will try Lloyd for FGs over 45 yards?

    6. Of course the DL is better...everyone returns, the coaching staff gets to work Griffen (a first round talent, gotta see if he is consistent) into the mix as well...I don't think Fat Pat is that worn down, and he should be in good form when it counts. Definitely better... And I know Marrdro will disagree here When Pat leaves, then they definitely take a step backwards.

    7. The linebackers still scare me, Shockey and Witten is too small a cross section to claim victory over TEs for 2010. With the general lack of speed at LB I will continue to be worried here.


    I really don't understand the focus on Fat Pat. I don't think this d-line is backpedaling every day Fat Pat gets out of bed again. I have big hopes for what Griffen potentially brings to the team/DLine, his versatility should add a nice wrinkle.
    1. I will defer to your knowledge of the PS and how it works. As to his playing time. Our 3rd down back doesn't see that much anyways, but we do carry 3 for a reason.

    Judging by size alone, DR seems to be in the right physical makeup to get a few reps even though he is on the small side a bit.

    7 Toby Gerhart RB 23 6-0 231 R Stanford
    -- Ian Johnson RB 23 5-11 212 1 Boise State
    -- James Johnson RB 25 5-11 205 1 Kansas State
    28 Adrian Peterson RB 25 6-1 217 4 Oklahoma
    34 Albert Young RB 25 5-10 209 2 Iowa
    82 Darius Reynaud WR 25 5-9 201 3 West Virginia

    My guess, they still go with 4 RBs this year.....

    AD
    TG
    AY
    DR

    2. I disagree. I don't think he will be used as a FB. If he is, it will be 1 maybe 2 plays a game, if that.

    3. Again, I agree with his talent level, I just don't see any team putting him on thier 53 man roster this year as that is what they would have to do if they took him from us. As I said, if he was that coveted, teams would have drafted him.

    4. I like to find a button and push it whenever I can. Heath is one of those buttons. On a side note, I do believe he is expendable though, mostly because his knee injury really slowed him down last year. We have young cats chomping to get on the roster, who can also contribute as starters/rotation guys. Having a cat like Heath on the roster, who can only contribute (and just barely now) on ST's is a wasted roster spot that we can't afford to burn.

    5. No comment.

    6. Phat Pat doesn't have to leave for the line to degrade. As with last year, it degraded everytime he took a rep off without a true NT in there to stuff the run, eat up blockers and collapse the pocket.

    I hear ya on Griff. Loved the pick, but only with respect to how we can use him in our base 4-3 as a LDE. In no way does he beef up our middle. DE's, by nature, play on the outside in our base, not on the inside.

    In case you haven't noticed, my concern for this position is mostly focused on the players and thier reps and hasn't included any discussion of the looming suspension.

    If that happens, we are completely screwed and everyone will quickly realize how crappy our backups really are when they are asked to start.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #8
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Marrdro wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    RB - Running Back


    Young – Doesn’t bring a lot of value as a 3rd running back, Practice Squad is the most he can hope for, lack of speed and proven pass catching ability don’t bode well for Young. Young would be very unlikely to play when it counted, and
    And yet he made the 53 man roster last year. My guess, he isn't eligable for the PS and will make the 53 man roster again this year.

    FB- Fullback
    Gerhart wasn't drafted to play FB my friend and very little teams even use/carry a true FB anymore so Tahi has almost no value on the market.

    TE – Tightend

    Wow, how many roster spots can be tied-up with TEs.
    A buttload if you are run first team.

    WR – Wide receiver
    Webb throws a real Monkey-wrench into the works here. If he shows that he has reliable hands and is coachable in training camp he is a lock for the 53 man roster. There is no way he survives on our practice squad with his physical abilities and proven competitive drive. Now, if he is not coachable and/or his hands are not up to snuff then he could easily be let go.

    There is a possibility that we carry 6 men on the 53 man roster, in that case, expect Webb to claim the 6th spot and emerge mid-way through the season to grab a spot on the 45 man roster.
    I think some fans are now a bit over sensitised to loosing players off the PS after Thigpen.

    Truth of the matter is, if a team wanted him that bad, they would have drafted him. My guess, he will be safe on the PS for one year.

    As to carrying 6 Wr's, yes, it happened last year, but my guess is that it won't this year. With questions surrounding DT and CB, along with our Koff specialist that was added cause shortwell can't Koff, they will take that back down to thier traditional 5 WR package.


    Special Teams

    Kicking should be more than solid. Longwell is one of the best kickers in the league

    If anything happened on Special Teams it would likely be a new Punter.
    First, you should ahve said that Shortwell is of the best FG kickers. He absolutely sucks on Koffs.

    Second, there are gonna be alot of changes, first and foremost with Heath Farwell, when it comes to our coverage crew. Alot of exciting young players coming in to help that mess out, even though it did get a bit better last year under the new ST's coaching staff.

    Defense

    DL- Defensive Line
    We are not stacked at DL. We only have 1 Phat Pat. All the rest are backups to K-will (3/4 Technique cats).

    Only reason I think they passed on the NT's that could have helped this year is that I believe the Haynesworth rumors have a bit of fire under that smoke.

    Truth of the matter is, all of our defensive issues that you list below, can be directly attributed to one thing.....Phat Pats decline.

    With JK in there taking up a lions share of those reps, we did OK, but OK isn't good enough for me. I want to see the other side of the line chunking doubles on our 0/1 technique NT allowing JA, Kevin and Ray/Everson facing single coverage.

    Until that happens, our defense will continue to decline in run stopping as well as pass coverage.

    LB-Linebackers
    TEs really had a field day aginst the Vikings last year and any improvement in TE coverage ability would have to be a focus for the LB corps.
    How did Witten and Shocky do against us in the playoffs?

    I think our LB'rs are fine as long as we don't have to use them to get pressure on the QB. (See my DT comments). If you do, however, have to do that, you will see TE's and RB's eating us up as they are now free to exploit the underneath zones left vacant as the LB blitzed.

    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Some added feedback:

    1. The PS rules are kind of funny. I believe as long as you have kept your 53 man roster full for 2 years you can slide players back and forth as you please to the PS dependent upon an individual players contract conditions. I really don't think Young has much potential to benefit the team on this crowded roster after the addition of Gerhart. In a close game he will only see the field if AD and Gerhart are injured, and in a blowout Reynaud can handle the Junk-time carries. Don't forget that AY never saw the ball last year unless we were up by 17 points. There will be no room on the roster for that kind of production this year. We should let AY go to a team where he has a chance to play.

    2. Gerhart will not be a dedicated Fullback, but, he will probably lead block (do some "fullbacking") about 10 times a game for AD out of a two back set. Gerharts real value is as the second HB in the classic SF 49ers WCO of the 80s and to give AD a blow when needed.

    3. No way Webb lasts a day on the Practice Squad if he shows any promise in the pre-season. This guy is a dream come true as a 4th or 5th WR who could develop into a quality starting WR in a couple years plus the daydreaming about his wildcat ability. (this guy is a "Football player")

    4. Just curious, what is the deal with Heath Farwell? I evidentley missed something last year. Is he projected to be not healthy for 2010?

    5. You are indeed correct...Longwell deserves the moniker of "Shortwell", he does not have a strong leg. I wonder if they will try Lloyd for FGs over 45 yards?

    6. Of course the DL is better...everyone returns, the coaching staff gets to work Griffen (a first round talent, gotta see if he is consistent) into the mix as well...I don't think Fat Pat is that worn down, and he should be in good form when it counts. Definitely better... And I know Marrdro will disagree here When Pat leaves, then they definitely take a step backwards.

    7. The linebackers still scare me, Shockey and Witten is too small a cross section to claim victory over TEs for 2010. With the general lack of speed at LB I will continue to be worried here.


    I really don't understand the focus on Fat Pat. I don't think this d-line is backpedaling every day Fat Pat gets out of bed again. I have big hopes for what Griffen potentially brings to the team/DLine, his versatility should add a nice wrinkle.
    1. I will defer to your knowledge of the PS and how it works. As to his playing time. Our 3rd down back doesn't see that much anyways, but we do carry 3 for a reason.

    Judging by size alone, DR seems to be in the right physical makeup to get a few reps even though he is on the small side a bit.

    7 Toby Gerhart RB 23 6-0 231 R Stanford
    -- Ian Johnson RB 23 5-11 212 1 Boise State
    -- James Johnson RB 25 5-11 205 1 Kansas State
    28 Adrian Peterson RB 25 6-1 217 4 Oklahoma
    34 Albert Young RB 25 5-10 209 2 Iowa
    82 Darius Reynaud WR 25 5-9 201 3 West Virginia

    My guess, they still go with 4 RBs this year.....

    AD
    TG
    AY
    DR

    2. I disagree. I don't think he will be used as a FB. If he is, it will be 1 maybe 2 plays a game, if that.

    3. Again, I agree with his talent level, I just don't see any team putting him on thier 53 man roster this year as that is what they would have to do if they took him from us. As I said, if he was that coveted, teams would have drafted him.

    4. I like to find a button and push it whenever I can. Heath is one of those buttons. On a side note, I do believe he is expendable though, mostly because his knee injury really slowed him down last year. We have young cats chomping to get on the roster, who can also contribute as starters/rotation guys. Having a cat like Heath on the roster, who can only contribute (and just barely now) on ST's is a wasted roster spot that we can't afford to burn.

    5. No comment.

    6. Phat Pat doesn't have to leave for the line to degrade. As with last year, it degraded everytime he took a rep off without a true NT in there to stuff the run, eat up blockers and collapse the pocket.

    I hear ya on Griff. Loved the pick, but only with respect to how we can use him in our base 4-3 as a LDE. In no way does he beef up our middle. DE's, by nature, play on the outside in our base, not on the inside.

    In case you haven't noticed, my concern for this position is mostly focused on the players and thier reps and hasn't included any discussion of the looming suspension.

    If that happens, we are completely screwed and everyone will quickly realize how crappy our backups really are when they are asked to start.
    1. We will see about young as a fourth RB...I thinbk they would likely carry a FB instead (even Tahi!). This roster will be tight.

    2. 1 to tWo plays as a HB/FB? or a true FB? I gotta think that Gerhart and AP are on the field together about 20 plays a game. With 40 percent being pass/runs by AD, 40% being pass plays and 20% being PASS/RUN with Gerhart using AP as a Decoy. Thats probably 7 plays right there where he probably blocks for AD if you buy into the 2 HB SF 49ers WCO style play calling.

    3. Webb was rated as a mid 5th round player and got drafted by us in the 6th round of a deep draft. Most reports say several other teams were hot to pick him up as well. I can think of several teams that would love to stash a guy like this on the roster (Bal, Cle, Was, Det, St L, Atl, Sea,etc etc etc...). Webb will command a 53 man roster slot if he shows any promise. I sound like a broken record

    4.agreed...wouldn't mind seeing a new punter or at least a competition to boot.

    5. Hate to drop a Farwell type player coming off of a pro bowl appearance. Is his knee serious?

    6. Agreed, without Pat on the line we take a step back. But, that's the same situation as last year. We are not any worse off for it. Don't be surprised if the coaching staff plays some real tricks with Griffen in the nickel package having him drop into coverage...or increasing the number of stunts they run with him in the game. Trust me, the defense got better if the coaching staff can keep Griffen focused.

    Let's agree not to talk "starcaps"...too depressing.
    None

  9. #9
    gagarr's Avatar
    gagarr is offline Team Alumni
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    2,411

    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Trust me, the defense got better if the coaching staff can keep Griffen focused. [/quote]

    I think Jared, Kevin, and Pat will have a much better time keeping Griffen focused on the field. If Griffen takes a play off, he'll hear about it before he gets to the sideline.
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  10. #10
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Post Draft Pondering....hmmmm

    Zeus wrote:
    [quote]Marrdro wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Just a few comments. Otherwise it was a great post my friend.

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Defensive Unit as a Whole

    The strength of this defense is its Defensive line and they will be even stronger this year. With all of the DE talent they may even warrant a new nickname. Couple the defensive line with the growing talent in the secondary and you have the perfect situation to manufacture Sacks and more Turnovers. The only real weakness is LB coverage (speed) over the middle which is compounded by the Tampa 2 defensive scheme that we run.
    I beg to differ. Our DL is not stronger this year. Infact, its probably gonna be weaker as Phat Pat will take even more reps off.

    Again, one has to look close at the difference between a 3/4 technique DT and a 0/1 technique NT to understand that.
    Jimmy Kennedy is poised to take Pat's spot and thrive. I love that guy.
    You might be correct. Problem is, even if he does, for how long?

    He is of the same draft class as Kevin and they have Guion being groomed for that spot already. Were is JK's replacement?

    Look, I like JK and was very happy to see him finally accept what he is, (a DT) , at the next level, but he is still more of a 3/4 Technique DT and not a NT and even if he was, who comes in for him?

    Robinson? Hes a RDE.
    Evans? Another DT that showed enough to get Guion drafted.

    Standby to standby if we continue to give up runs like we saw last year when Phat Pat wasn't in there. Won't matter how bad our secondary is cause they won't be challenged as teams will just run all over us.
    Who's Robinson? Ohhh - you mean Robison! (Sorry, can't get a "cat's" name right, that's disrespect, in my book).

    The long runs given up last year were around the ends, not up the middle. Specifically, on delays after letting Jared rush up field and then cutting behind him. That's an LB's job to stop those, not a DT.

    =Z=
    OK Zues.....Two things...

    a. Are you trying to tell me that we only gave up huge yards on the ground around the ends? I think you need to go back and revisit some of the games. Just watched Rice eat us up alive last night and he ran mostly of Center Left all the way out to Off LT right. That constitutes up the middle my friend.

    b. That is a fault of the LBrs and S's as well, however, when JA is being taken out of the play (as he pass rushes on a running play) by just the LT, that allows the other defenders to seal the edge, basically taking the LB out of the play which leaves our S's all alone to do thier S thing.

    My question, if I had a chance to ask Leslie would be, ...."Did you have the defense defending the pass or was your vaunted DL just handed thier lunch in a brown paper bag by the offense"?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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