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  1. #21
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1098301
    Webb has to overcome "project" stigma to beat out Ponder

    Somewhere in Florida, Joe Webb and Christian Ponder are working out together, each vying for the same goal: to become the starting quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings.

    Awkward.

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/122740774.html
    Thought this about Webb working out with Ponder was kinda funny

    Working out with him in Florida is the anti-Tarvaris Jackson.

    Ponder is known as an accurate passer from a big-time college, who played in big time games. He has the experience and an arm to make all of the NFL throws. Plus, the offense he ran in college was similar to the one Bill Musgrave will be installing this season. For what it’s worth, Jackson scored a 19 on the Wonderlic test and Ponder scored a 35 — Ponder’s a smart guy who will be able to step in a read NFL defenses.

    Ponder is not a “project” — he’s a safe pick
    Ponder the anit-Jackson B)

    Would like to see him on the field against an NFL defense first but like the sound of it but he has to still prove it.

  2. #22
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098264
    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1098262
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098259
    Wait a minute, wait a minute. Webb I can understand having problems with the verbiage, but the Noodle?

    Comeon guys, at somepoint almost all of you were telling me he was smarter than the coaches and was running the offense all by himself.

    Now your pissing and moaning about how hard it was for him.

    Truth of the matter is, the WCO offense is a very complicated offense to call in the huddle as well as make adjustments at the line so I am glad to hear Musgrove is going to simplyfy things. Only makes sense considering he is going to have a rookie as his starter, a 2nd year man as his backup and a mid tier vet there as the third stringer only to help the two youngsters prep for games.

    On a side note, all of you who wanted Chucky as the HC would have been even more pissed when you heard/hear how hard his offense is to call for QB's. Judging by Chucky himself, and the cats on NFLN, his WCO variant is the toughest to get down of all of them.
    Farve was smarter than the coaches.
    Shoot, Terry Bradshaw was probably smarter than our coaches and he was not considered bright by anyones standards when he was playing.
    OK, so if that is a fact, why is everyone now saying that he struggled with the verbiage? :unsure:
    No one said Favre struggled with the verbiage...it has been reported that Favre stated that the Offense was too complicated.

    The more elements you introduce into a plan, the more elements that can potentially go wrong.

    We saw this Defensively when Cottrell was the DC...he had a ton of plays that were minor deviations from each other. It gummed up the Defense so much that they were falling apart...until Winfield blew up and Tice cut Teddy's play book into 1/3 of it's original size.

    Same thing here, only different side of the ball. Saying the Offense was too complicated isn't a knock on Favre - even though you're trying to spin it that way - it's a knock on Chiller.

    Caine

  3. #23
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098275
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098265
    The noodle thought all the player personnel packages were too complicated for the young guys to be able to execute proficiently and that made him spend too much time in the huddle telling guys what to do.

    Yep. But he shouldn't have had to also teach the players what to do and where to be.
    I can almost live with that, however, why did it click in 2009 and not in 2010?

    Could it be because the guys that were on the field in 2009 know it and the backups that were on the field in 2010 didn't?

    If thats the case then one could almost say that the coaches (and not the Noodle) had the team ready to go in 2009. One could almost then say that the Noodle didn't carry the team in 2009. If he did, then one would have to "Ponder" why he couldn't carry the team in 2010.

    Just saying......:unsure:


    It's as complicated as the staff makes it. There was plenty of room for Childress to do the same things Musgrave is doing but he chose not to.
    How so? Again, it worked in 2009 didn't it?

    Which is a big reason he is now on TV and not the sidelines.
    They had a very interesting discussion on Sirius about Chucky and his ability to develop a QB. He never has.

    They attribute it to the complicated offense he runs which makes me wonder how many on here, that wanted him to be the HC, would now change their minds.

    Again, just saying.
    And who's to say that in '09 Chiller didn't run a streamlined version because it was Favre's 1st season with him....then Chiller threw in all the useless crap in '10 and screw2ed everyone else up?

    Just sayin...

    Caine

  4. #24
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1098273
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098266
    Where did it say specifically that Brett struggled with the verbiage?
    It didn't. It didn't have to eitehr. Marty likes to take things and run with it when he thinks he has some little seam to 'prove' us wrong (I know, I know... he's not here to 'prove' anything :dry: )
    First, you need to go back and find were "I" started down that track.

    Again, seems like you are missunderstanding what I am typing.

    Second, it isn't about right and wrong. Its about keeping a discussion going. So yes, color me purple, I do, at times, go out of my way to keep on that I find interesting going. :P
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  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1098278
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098275
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098265
    The noodle thought all the player personnel packages were too complicated for the young guys to be able to execute proficiently and that made him spend too much time in the huddle telling guys what to do.

    Yep. But he shouldn't have had to also teach the players what to do and where to be.
    I can almost live with that, however, why did it click in 2009 and not in 2010?
    Injuries to Favre
    Injuries to the OL
    Injuries to Favre
    Injuries to the WR's
    Injuries to Favre
    Injuries to Peterson
    Injuries to Favre
    Injuries to TJ
    Injuries to Favre

    Get the idea? Last season I don't think there was a single offensive starter who didn't deal with some type of injury. Maybe Loadholt. in 2009, we started shaky (kinda blows your 'coaches had our guys ready to play' scenario out of the water), then when Favre + the receivers got in sync, it took off.
    Could it be because the guys that were on the field in 2009 know it and the backups that were on the field in 2010 didn't?
    Could be because we couldn't get our QB time to pass
    Could be because we couldn't get our RB holes to run
    Could be because we couldn't get the ball to our WR's when the QB had time to pass
    Could be because Childress is a colossal moron (likely scenario)

    If thats the case then one could almost say that the coaches (and not the Noodle) had the team ready to go in 2009. One could almost then say that the Noodle didn't carry the team in 2009. If he did, then one would have to "Ponder" why he couldn't carry the team in 2010.
    If one believes the coaches had ANYTHING ready in 2009 one needs to take a step back and slap themselves in the face and return to the real world.

    In 2009, the coaches didn't have a fucking quarterback until august. Just goes to show how ready they were.
    in 2009, Harvin was clearly not ready in September. Had to be eased in and brought up to speed by Favre (yes, Harvin says Favre was huge in his development... funny, thought that was the coaches job?)

    Just saying......:unsure:

    It's as complicated as the staff makes it. There was plenty of room for Childress to do the same things Musgrave is doing but he chose not to.
    How so? Again, it worked in 2009 didn't it?
    Yep, we had a guy who understood it all. now we don't
    Which is a big reason he is now on TV and not the sidelines.
    They had a very interesting discussion on Sirius about Chucky and his ability to develop a QB. He never has.

    They attribute it to the complicated offense he runs which makes me wonder how many on here, that wanted him to be the HC, would now change their minds.
    I'm betting there were so many here who wanted him because a sloppy brown asshole would be an improvement over what we had.

    I never wanted Chucky, because quite frankly I didn't think he was a good coach.

    Again, just saying.
    You might be, but as always (well not always), your not making sense.

    Simple question....If the Noodle carried the team in 09 why didn't he carry them in 10?

    Don't blame Rice, you yourself said he made Rice.

    Don't blame the OL, to many on here said it was his quick release that made them better.

    Face it, as the Noodle said himself, the team in 09 made it easy for him, nothing more nothing less. Without the starters from 09 on the field and a bunch of backups out there in 10, he couldn't carry them, again, because the 09 team carried him.
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  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098283
    Marrdro wrote:
    I can almost live with that, however, why did it click in 2009 and not in 2010?
    Several factors I guess.

    First and foremost being that in the beginning Brett had a chip on his shoulder and had something to prove so he did everything he could to make things work including spending extra time with the new guys and ,when necessary, changing plays or terms in order to get the job done. Of course we all know how that went over with Childress.

    The next year Brett was still beat to hell from the previous year and IMHO he didn't want to be there and IMHO he shouldn't have been there. His play was terrible and his mobility was nearly no existent. The bitch is there was nobody else on the team capable of taking up the slack for him or even to replace him on the roster and run the team like Brett did in 2009. And much of the rest of the talent on the team was also playing at a lower level.
    All that being said, a simpler offense could have helped jackson be a better QB and it could have helped Webb to be better when he was called upon.
    What extra time are you talking about....OTA's or in training Camp?

    Again, anybody who isn't a Noodle Knob slobbererreerereer can look back and see that the 2009 Vikings carried the Noodle and made him look good. Even the Noodle himself admitted it. He himself said he couldn't carry a team anymore.

    2010 was proof of that.

    On a side note. I wonder how many QB's played hurt last year and still had winning records. That excuse is getting old (almost as old as the Noodle).
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  7. #27
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098478
    Face it, as the Noodle said himself, the team in 09 made it easy for him, nothing more nothing less. Without the starters from 09 on the field and a bunch of backups out there in 10, he couldn't carry them, again, because the 09 team carried him.
    Of course he said that, but all of the players said that Favre helped them immensely and it's obvious to anyone that without Favre, we would have sucked that year. We just had a complete team that year. Amazing QB play, great WR and RBs, awesome defense, decent o-line, awful coach. Well, almost a complete team.

    Show me a QB that is going to come out and say "Without me, my team would suck", and I will show you a free agent.
    I am NOT here to provide good football insight or rational observations. I am an emotional 19 year old Viking fan and I expect you to adjust your expectations from my posts.

  8. #28
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098479
    What extra time are you talking about....OTA's or in training Camp?
    Nope, just extra time in practice working with the players and even time spent on the sidelines and in the huddle.

    Again, anybody who isn't a Noodle Knob slobbererreerereer can look back and see that the 2009 Vikings carried the Noodle and made him look good. Even the Noodle himself admitted it. He himself said he couldn't carry a team anymore.
    You really, really need to get out of the closet more there my friend. What he did was to provide leadership, direction and the attitude they could win games. It came from his confidence and that is something the team didn't get from the QB before or after him.

    2010 was proof of that.
    Actually I see it as the opposite. The difference between the two years was that Brett was healthy until the end of 2009 and we all saw how he played when he had the hell beat out of him by the lack of pass protection. In 2010 he was still beat to hell and could not pull off the plays he did the year before and the result was obvious to all except those so blind with hate that the point is lost.

    On a side note. I wonder how many QB's played hurt last year and still had winning records. That excuse is getting old (almost as old as the Noodle).
    That was a dumb statement. If that is your basis then maybe we should say how many times did TJ play through pain and take the field when he could have just let the next guy play instead. Oh yeah, the majority of his short career.

  9. #29
    Traveling_Vike is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "12purplepride28" #1098483

    Show me a QB that is going to come out and say "Without me, my team would suck", and I will show you a free agent.
    Yeah, that's usually heard from WRs rather thn QBs.

    My Meeple is purple. What color is yours?

  10. #30
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Ponder and Webb learning from a vet...

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098479
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098283
    Marrdro wrote:
    I can almost live with that, however, why did it click in 2009 and not in 2010?
    Several factors I guess.

    First and foremost being that in the beginning Brett had a chip on his shoulder and had something to prove so he did everything he could to make things work including spending extra time with the new guys and ,when necessary, changing plays or terms in order to get the job done. Of course we all know how that went over with Childress.

    The next year Brett was still beat to hell from the previous year and IMHO he didn't want to be there and IMHO he shouldn't have been there. His play was terrible and his mobility was nearly no existent. The bitch is there was nobody else on the team capable of taking up the slack for him or even to replace him on the roster and run the team like Brett did in 2009. And much of the rest of the talent on the team was also playing at a lower level.
    All that being said, a simpler offense could have helped jackson be a better QB and it could have helped Webb to be better when he was called upon.
    What extra time are you talking about....OTA's or in training Camp?

    Again, anybody who isn't a Noodle Knob slobbererreerereer can look back and see that the 2009 Vikings carried the Noodle and made him look good. Even the Noodle himself admitted it. He himself said he couldn't carry a team anymore.

    2010 was proof of that.

    On a side note. I wonder how many QB's played hurt last year and still had winning records. That excuse is getting old (almost as old as the Noodle).
    You know, there were a lot of factors that played into the success of 2009 and the failure of 2010. One of them was Favre, but there were plenty of other elements which altered from '09 to '10.

    However, no matter how many times we point them out, you elect to ignore them, then claim that anyone who doesn't see things your way is on Favre's jock.

    Fact is, no one said Favre carried the team in '09. The ONLY person who has EVER made ANY reference to ANY portion of the team being carried is YOU when you claimed that the receiver corps could carry any QB to victory.

    Another fact is that despite your claims to the contrary, Rice blossomed under a healthy Favre, and didn't really do much special when Favre went down in '10. From where I sit, that appears to ME like it was indeed Favre who pulled Rice's game up...not the other way around.

    Finally, yes, the '09 team made it easy for Favre. The line was relatively healthy. Peterson was Peterson. Harvin was a rookie and no one knew what to really expect. Rice was healthy.

    All that changed in 2010..except for Peterson. Yet you want to continually place ALL the blame on Favre. Would Jackson have done better under those same conditions? Oh....wait....we SAW him, and the answer was NO.

    Fact is, I bitched about Chiller's lack of QB acquisition, and you've been poo-pooing that for years (especially with your alleged list of "no one was available"...despite being shown repeatedly that there WERE options). So, Chiller went and got Favre as a quick-fix...and all you've done for 2 1/2 years is bitch about it, and try and twist every bad thing to be Favre's fault, and every good thing to be to someone else's credit...despite a COMPLETE lack of anything remotely close to FACTS to support your assertions.

    And this is simply another of your bias-laden posts.

    We get it, you don't like Favre. He's gone now. Let it go.

    Caine

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