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  1. #1
    VikesfaninWis's Avatar
    VikesfaninWis is offline Jersey Retired
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    Players That Fit

    Players That Fit
    Date: Feb 23, 2006


    From quarterback to running back to linebacker, the new systems in Minnesota could call for some changes, and there are a few players who could be available that intrigue former Viking Bob Lurtsema, a 12-year veteran of the NFL.

    VU: The Miami Herald was reporting that the Dolphins are in trade talks with the Vikings for Daunte Culpepper and the Baltimore Sun was reporting that the Ravens might be interested in him. With all of the trade talks, do you think there is really any turning back or do you think Culpepper is as good as gone?

    BL: I would suspect that Daunte is probably gone for many reasons. Sometimes the coaches like a certain system and the coach won’t change his system. Don Shula was once asked if he was a running coach or a passing coach. He said, ‘I am what my players make me.’ I think if you look at that and what Brad Childress is coming in with, with his system, I think he wants players that will fit his system, rather than adjust the way Shula would. He obviously hasn’t been around as long as Don was, and you’re comparing a Hall of Fame head coach to a first-year coach.

    VU: Do think if Daunte would have been satisfied with what his contract called for now and tried to prove himself whenever he can come back from his injury, there would be any talk of a trade?

    BL: It would lessen the opportunity, but then I haven’t been in a conversation with (head coach Brad) Childress yet. What (Culpepper) did was he gave them an opportunity to revisit his worth to Childress, and I think upon revisiting his worth, that opened up the doors for a possible trade. If he would have just kept his attitude that he’s had ever since he’s got here, I don’t think they would have addressed it. There are just too many variables. Too many things have changed. The change in philosophy to a new head coach to the entire coaching staff, everything has changed. That’s the sad part when you have switched coaches, you sometimes start over like an expansion team. I just hope that the defense is playing solid. I’m not worried about Brad Johnson—even at his age he’ll have a great year next year. I just hope they don’t (get rid of) a lot of the defensive players that improved the last nine games.

    VU: Michael Bennett has been told he will not come back, so now my question is: What do you think the highest position of need is, whether that’s through free agency or the draft?

    BL: I think it’s got to be on the offensive line. Matt Birk has got to come back. They need him for his blocking, and Michael Bennett definitely doesn’t go with a patient blocking-scheme offense—he’s more a quick hitter. If you have a fullback, and now the Vikings signed Joey Goodspeed, Bennett is going to have to sit and wait, kind of plot your way along. Mewelde Moore is more that style that would work better with a fullback.

    VU: One of the scenarios thrown out there is that the Ravens were thinking of franchising Jamal Lewis and then trying to trade him for Culpepper. Now Lewis is expected to be a free agent. Do you see Lewis as being a running back that could fit into Childress’ West Coast system?

    BL: Boy, that’s a good question. The way he pounds it hard, actually I could. He’s a pounder, he’s a hard runner. I think Michael, he isn’t a hard runner. Michael you can grab with one hand and throw him down, grab him by his britches. You couldn’t do that with Jamal. I see they might let Drew Brees go (via free agency in San Diego), and I was all excited about that. That would be a great fit to play behind Brad Johnson for a year, but with that shoulder you’re getting another injured quarterback. You’ve got to bring another quarterback in if you let Daunte go. You’ve got to have somebody that’s going to learn from Brad because Brad is a very, very bright quarterback. I just think Drew Brees fits Brad Childress’ offense better (than Daunte).

    VU: Under that scenario, in your mind would it be an open competition between Brees and Johnson?

    BL: You could have the competition, but you’d have Drew learning from Brad to start with. Brad just knows the game so well, every system so well. He’s like the professor. That’s the big difference. They could fight for it, but Drew Bress, I’ve always said he’s better than Michael Vick and I’ll probably go to my grave on that one. Watching him at Purdue and how he handled that offense and the things he did, I think he’d be an excellent student for the professor.

    VU: Defensively, what do you think is the priority. Is it linebacker or is it safety, or do they still need to find a real strong pass-rushing defensive end. What’s the highest priority?

    BL: If they’re going to go with that Tampa-2, you’ve got to get some speed and go linebacker. Linebackers make that defense go. I think we’ve got the defensive line to do it as long as they get in shape from Day One and don’t get in shape in the fourth or fifth game of the season like some of the guys did last year. That’s almost embarrassing.

    VU: Do you think Keith Newman or Sam Cowart has a chance to re-sign with the team or do you think they’ll both be left to go to free agency?

    BL: I think Newman would be more apt to be kept than Sam. Newman brings enough of the packages. From defensive line to pass rushing, I just think he’s a stronger force in there. Even though I mentioned speed earlier, you can’t just be speed and be one-dimensional. I think you get more versatility from Keith and I think he’d be the one you’d be most likely to keep with the possibility of using him as a pass-rushing defensive end.

  2. #2
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    I would suspect that Daunte is probably gone for many reasons. Sometimes the coaches like a certain system and the coach won’t change his system. Don Shula was once asked if he was a running coach or a passing coach. He said, ‘I am what my players make me.’ I think if you look at that and what Brad Childress is coming in with, with his system, I think he wants players that will fit his system, rather than adjust the way Shula would.

    And that is why Shula was great and I have my doubts about Childress. I am optimistic he can make it work, but I think the greatest coaches in the world take the approach Shula did.

  3. #3
    snowinapril's Avatar
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    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    I would suspect that Daunte is probably gone for many reasons. Sometimes the coaches like a certain system and the coach won’t change his system. Don Shula was once asked if he was a running coach or a passing coach. He said, ‘I am what my players make me.’ I think if you look at that and what Brad Childress is coming in with, with his system, I think he wants players that will fit his system, rather than adjust the way Shula would.

    And that is why Shula was great and I have my doubts about Childress. I am optimistic he can make it work, but I think the greatest coaches in the world take the approach Shula did.
    Darwinian

    It is fine if he wants to install the WCO and that philosophy. But being able to adapt is key. If you come into it with Shula's attitude, you have the best chance of success.

  4. #4
    NordicNed is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    Shula for sure was and always will be one of the greatest coaches ever.

    But let us not forget others, some with the build it my way approach.

    Bill Parcels is one of those, he always took the "mold my team" with the type of players that fit what he wanted to do.

    Chidress is approaching his Coaching dabute more like Parcels train of thought..

    If you can find the right players who fit, or mold those players that don't into ones that can, you have a very good chance of some great things happening also.......

    I would say both ways work, but both demand good solid coaching, and players that play solid and dominate on all sides of the ball...


    I LOVE THE SMELL OF VICTORY IN THE MORNING AIR.

  5. #5
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    Yes indeed Ned.

    Some coaches demand that sort of pressence. Being a first year coach Childress will be earning respect. Much like Parcells did. If he doesn't have instant success with his forced systems the road could get rocky really fast.

    Because one of the biggest problems with a coach who has it set in stone what he will do, is when it doesn't work the players have a target. INstead of the players reflecting on themselves and asking themselves how they can get better they can point the finger at the system and question it.

    I'm not saying he won't succeed. I do however feel he will have a much harder time with this approach. Early success will be crucial to himself as well as the team under his iron fisted coaching strategy.

  6. #6
    VikesfaninWis's Avatar
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    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    Remember to that Andy Reid was a QB Coach for the Packers that had never called a game in his tenture as a coach, and look what he did with the Eagles. Childress is a mold of Reid, and that is not a bad thing. I will take Childress over any other first time HC that has gotten a job this season.

    Hell I will go on the record of saying that I will take Childress now over Tice who has had experience. Childress has that discipline, something that Tice lacked. He has a drive, something Tice lacked. I will also say that you will never hear Childress say " Well we are getting a little better, but we are no where near a good football team" Did Tice ever stop and think that he was putting this crap in the players heads?

    Brad Childress is exactly what the Vikings needed to turn this around. He has done a great job in hiring his staff. I see nothing but great things ahead for the Vikes and all I can say is " It's about dam time"

  7. #7
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    "VikesfaninWis" wrote:
    Remember to that Andy Reid was a QB Coach for the Packers that had never called a game in his tenture as a coach, and look what he did with the Eagles. Childress is a mold of Reid, and that is not a bad thing. I will take Childress over any other first time HC that has gotten a job this season.

    Hell I will go on the record of saying that I will take Childress now over Tice who has had experience. Childress has that discipline, something that Tice lacked. He has a drive, something Tice lacked. I will also say that you will never hear Childress say " Well we are getting a little better, but we are no where near a good football team" Did Tice ever stop and think that he was putting this crap in the players heads?

    Brad Childress is exactly what the Vikings needed to turn this around. He has done a great job in hiring his staff. I see nothing but great things ahead for the Vikes and all I can say is " It's about dam time"
    While extreemly optimistic I'd say he hasn't done anything to back that opinion up yet.

    I will hold my judgement on him until after he has a few years and has coached a few games. He is given a handfull of years. Especially since he seems to have a "plan" That in itself is the problem though. This is the NFL and if you are a coach who has it set in your mind how you want things to go and you want to build your team the way you want you better win and you better win fast.

    Parcells and Cower are alotted that luxury, no one else is. So what ends up happening is a coach comes in makes a lot of changes and gets new players on board. The team struggles, but we all realize to fully achieve his plan he needs time, well with free agency and with salary caps he never really quite gets the personel he needs.

    Then a new coach comes in and takes over a team in dissaray that is a half ass version of what the previous coach had in mind.

    There comes a time when you just have to evaluate what you have accept it and coach the team to their strengths, close the doors keep your men on your team and improve them. That is why those coaches seem to succeed more.

    He has proven absolutely nothing to me. He is no better then Tice no worse then Tice at this very moment. He is raw and his future is his to sculpt. The fact that he has come in with the WCO and possibly the Cover 2 suggests to me he will coach towards a system and not a player.

    So his timeline for success just shortened to probably 3 years.

    Not saying he can't do it, he may be magnificant. Again I hold my judgement until he actually does something. Keeping in mind I hold no buffer for him to get his "system" in place because I feel if he struggles out of the gates he will never truley get the chance to see his plans to fruition.

  8. #8
    COJOMAY is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    I'd say the Vikes may not have a "steller" season next year. Remember all the talk about getting players on the same page. But I think by year two we could go deep into the playoffs.
    I hope that the fans don't get too far down on Childress and the rest of the new staff while they goe through the first year of "trial by fire."
    Kentucky Vikes Fan

    When you require nothing, you get nothing; when you expect nothing, you will find nothing; when you embrace nothing, all you will have is nothing.

  9. #9
    VikesfaninWis's Avatar
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    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    "Del Rio" wrote:
    "VikesfaninWis" wrote:
    Remember to that Andy Reid was a QB Coach for the Packers that had never called a game in his tenture as a coach, and look what he did with the Eagles. Childress is a mold of Reid, and that is not a bad thing. I will take Childress over any other first time HC that has gotten a job this season.

    Hell I will go on the record of saying that I will take Childress now over Tice who has had experience. Childress has that discipline, something that Tice lacked. He has a drive, something Tice lacked. I will also say that you will never hear Childress say " Well we are getting a little better, but we are no where near a good football team" Did Tice ever stop and think that he was putting this crap in the players heads?

    Brad Childress is exactly what the Vikings needed to turn this around. He has done a great job in hiring his staff. I see nothing but great things ahead for the Vikes and all I can say is " It's about dam time"
    While extreemly optimistic I'd say he hasn't done anything to back that opinion up yet.

    I will hold my judgement on him until after he has a few years and has coached a few games. He is given a handfull of years. Especially since he seems to have a "plan" That in itself is the problem though. This is the NFL and if you are a coach who has it set in your mind how you want things to go and you want to build your team the way you want you better win and you better win fast.

    Parcells and Cower are alotted that luxury, no one else is. So what ends up happening is a coach comes in makes a lot of changes and gets new players on board. The team struggles, but we all realize to fully achieve his plan he needs time, well with free agency and with salary caps he never really quite gets the personel he needs.

    Then a new coach comes in and takes over a team in dissaray that is a half jiggly butt version of what the previous coach had in mind.

    There comes a time when you just have to evaluate what you have accept it and coach the team to their strengths, close the doors keep your men on your team and improve them. That is why those coaches seem to succeed more.

    He has proven absolutely nothing to me. He is no better then Tice no worse then Tice at this very moment. He is raw and his future is his to sculpt. The fact that he has come in with the WCO and possibly the Cover 2 suggests to me he will coach towards a system and not a player.

    So his timeline for success just shortened to probably 3 years.

    Not saying he can't do it, he may be magnificant. Again I hold my judgement until he actually does something. Keeping in mind I hold no buffer for him to get his "system" in place because I feel if he struggles out of the gates he will never truley get the chance to see his plans to fruition.
    I will go along with that Del. I am just saying I am glad to see Tice gone. I would prefer to take my chances with a coach like Childress. The way I look at it, the team will be no worse off than they were with Tice.

    The only difference now is that we have an owner that is willing to spend to get good quality FA's. If Tice was given that option, who knows maybe he would have been a good coach, but he wasn't and his time ran up. We will see what happens, but I guess I am excited to see a change.

  10. #10
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Lurtsema's Reaction: Players That Fit

    "VikesfaninWis" wrote:
    "Del Rio" wrote:
    "VikesfaninWis" wrote:
    Remember to that Andy Reid was a QB Coach for the Packers that had never called a game in his tenture as a coach, and look what he did with the Eagles. Childress is a mold of Reid, and that is not a bad thing. I will take Childress over any other first time HC that has gotten a job this season.

    Hell I will go on the record of saying that I will take Childress now over Tice who has had experience. Childress has that discipline, something that Tice lacked. He has a drive, something Tice lacked. I will also say that you will never hear Childress say " Well we are getting a little better, but we are no where near a good football team" Did Tice ever stop and think that he was putting this crap in the players heads?

    Brad Childress is exactly what the Vikings needed to turn this around. He has done a great job in hiring his staff. I see nothing but great things ahead for the Vikes and all I can say is " It's about dam time"
    While extreemly optimistic I'd say he hasn't done anything to back that opinion up yet.

    I will hold my judgement on him until after he has a few years and has coached a few games. He is given a handfull of years. Especially since he seems to have a "plan" That in itself is the problem though. This is the NFL and if you are a coach who has it set in your mind how you want things to go and you want to build your team the way you want you better win and you better win fast.

    Parcells and Cower are alotted that luxury, no one else is. So what ends up happening is a coach comes in makes a lot of changes and gets new players on board. The team struggles, but we all realize to fully achieve his plan he needs time, well with free agency and with salary caps he never really quite gets the personel he needs.

    Then a new coach comes in and takes over a team in dissaray that is a half jiggly butt version of what the previous coach had in mind.

    There comes a time when you just have to evaluate what you have accept it and coach the team to their strengths, close the doors keep your men on your team and improve them. That is why those coaches seem to succeed more.

    He has proven absolutely nothing to me. He is no better then Tice no worse then Tice at this very moment. He is raw and his future is his to sculpt. The fact that he has come in with the WCO and possibly the Cover 2 suggests to me he will coach towards a system and not a player.

    So his timeline for success just shortened to probably 3 years.

    Not saying he can't do it, he may be magnificant. Again I hold my judgement until he actually does something. Keeping in mind I hold no buffer for him to get his "system" in place because I feel if he struggles out of the gates he will never truley get the chance to see his plans to fruition.
    I will go along with that Del. I am just saying I am glad to see Tice gone. I would prefer to take my chances with a coach like Childress. The way I look at it, the team will be no worse off than they were with Tice.

    The only difference now is that we have an owner that is willing to spend to get good quality FA's. If Tice was given that option, who knows maybe he would have been a good coach, but he wasn't and his time ran up. We will see what happens, but I guess I am excited to see a change.
    I am excited to have Childress too. I hope he is the future. I hope he stays our coach for the next ten years even if it takes him 4-5 to get where he wants. The team needs some stability.

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