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  1. #41
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Randy Moss" #1091982
    Quote Originally Posted by "HEY" #1091971
    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1091968
    If Gabbert is there at 12 ... I don't care who else is ... he should be the pick.

    He is accurate, has a huge arm, reportedly has a great football IQ and has the build. Not much else you could ask for.
    Quote Originally Posted by "Randy Moss" #1091969
    He took every snap in the shotgun in the spread offense and simply wasn't that great at it. He is bad at throwing downfield (I read that his completion % on 15+ yard passes was about 30%) and isn't exceptionally accurate. I still can't figure out why he is considered one of the top QB's in the draft.
    This is what I'm talking about! People seem to have so very different opinion of Blaine Gabbert.
    Personally, I think he looks great on paper, but I've never seen him play.
    Watch his highlights in the bowl game against Illinois and you'll see what I'm talking about. Half of his passes are bubble screens which really inflates his completion percentage. I'm not sure he's much more accurate than Locker. Also, I'd challenge you to find a spread QB who didn't look good on paper. How many of those panned out in the NFL despite many of them putting much better numbers than Gabbert?
    Even if he isn't the most efficient spread QB coming out of college that doesn't mean he isn't the most pro ready. He's got the size, work ethic, leadership, arm strength and fluid release NFL teams look for.

    Tom Brady was Brian Greise's backup at Michigan. Matt Cassell didn't even start a game in the NCAA. Now look at Vince Young and Pat White, super successful running the spread in the NCAA, not viable options in the NFL.

    Level of success for a QB imo doesn't play as big of a factor as all those other things, many of them intangibles. Gabbert won't make it to 13.

  2. #42
    Randy Moss's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1091987
    Quote Originally Posted by "Randy Moss" #1091982
    Quote Originally Posted by "HEY" #1091971
    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1091968
    If Gabbert is there at 12 ... I don't care who else is ... he should be the pick.

    He is accurate, has a huge arm, reportedly has a great football IQ and has the build. Not much else you could ask for.
    Quote Originally Posted by "Randy Moss" #1091969
    He took every snap in the shotgun in the spread offense and simply wasn't that great at it. He is bad at throwing downfield (I read that his completion % on 15+ yard passes was about 30%) and isn't exceptionally accurate. I still can't figure out why he is considered one of the top QB's in the draft.
    This is what I'm talking about! People seem to have so very different opinion of Blaine Gabbert.
    Personally, I think he looks great on paper, but I've never seen him play.
    Watch his highlights in the bowl game against Illinois and you'll see what I'm talking about. Half of his passes are bubble screens which really inflates his completion percentage. I'm not sure he's much more accurate than Locker. Also, I'd challenge you to find a spread QB who didn't look good on paper. How many of those panned out in the NFL despite many of them putting much better numbers than Gabbert?
    Even if he isn't the most efficient spread QB coming out of college that doesn't mean he isn't the most pro ready. He's got the size, work ethic, leadership, arm strength and fluid release NFL teams look for.

    Tom Brady was Brian Greise's backup at Michigan. Matt Cassell didn't even start a game in the NCAA. Now look at Vince Young and Pat White, super successful running the spread in the NCAA, not viable options in the NFL.

    Level of success for a QB imo doesn't play as big of a factor as all those other things, many of them intangibles. Gabbert won't make it to 13.
    Brady and Cassel came from real offenses. Are there any spread QB's who've panned out in the NFL? You basically just reiterated my point. I'm just wary about mortgaging the future on someone who hasn't shown much of anything in games, especially when he comes from a system where virtually nobody has been able to successfully transition to the NFL from.

  3. #43
    Dibbzz is offline Starter
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    I apologize in advance if I sound like I'm repeating what I'm about to say here in this thread as I've posted I think at least three times in other threads (okay, I actually am repeating myself, sue me B) ). The truth is, to win in the NFL you need a franchise quarterback. Obtaining a stopgap QB like McNabb/Hasselbeck/Orton et. al. is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look at the past few teams to win the Super Bowl: the Green Bay Packers won Super Bowl XLV with Aaron Rodgers, The Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII with Ben Roethlisberger, the Colts won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning, and of course the Patriots won Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII and XXXIX with Tom Brady. All of these quarterbacks were drafted to fit the system of the team they were drafted to and groomed to fit said system. I believe that the Vikings can't afford to keep finding stopgap quarterbacks to fill the void any longer and it's time to draft one to fit the system that Leslie Frasier and Bill Musgrave want to implement.

    The million dollar question is how they actually go about doing that starting with the 2011 NFL Draft. Do we trade down to get more picks, take BPA at number 12 then take a quarterback in Round 2, draft the best quarterback available at pick Number 12? I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer until several years proceeding this draft to for sure find out what the best move could have been but nevertheless I think it's finally time to actually draft our guy. I've been saying this for months but Christian Ponder out of Florida State would be the ideal choice for us and his stock only continues to climb after having an outstanding Combine session and just recently a highly-reviewed Pro Day. I would be ecstatic if the Vikings took him with the 12th overall pick, despite the fact that it would be a "reach" to get him there. He proved at his Pro Day that the injuries sustained during the 2010-2011 season are healed and he has great poise and a degree of intelligence about him that he displays during interviews. I really, truly believe he could be the next great quarterback in the NFL and I hope that Spielman and the Vikings take a SERIOUS look at drafting him as our quarterback, even if it means taking him with the 12th overall pick. Plus, with the amount of negativity surrounding Chris Cook and Everson Griffen in the offseason it'd be a breath of fresh air to take a guy with zero character concerns and a natural leader. I'll probably be bummed out and the Vikings will draft Mallet or Locker and this whole post will be a pipe dream but long story short I think this kid has what it takes to be a leader for our team for the next decade and I highly implore the Vikings staff to give him a serious look before throwing the pick away and letting another team draft him and ride into the sunset with the next great NFL quarterback.

    In case you all couldn't tell I really like Ponder, lol. Feel free to rip my post apart now, haha...

  4. #44
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "HEY" #1091967
    It seems like everyone is very reluctant of drafting Blaine Gabbert around here. Please, tell me cause I know very little of this guy! What is it the big knock on him? He could fall out of the top ten come draft day so I think we should consider him.
    If Gabbert isn't taken number 1, he won't last much longer than that.

    In the end, I'm not worried about taking Gabbert, I just don't think he is gonna be there.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #45
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1092014
    ......snip..... The truth is, to win in the NFL you need a franchise quarterback.
    That is about the easiest thing in the world to say, but yet, the hardest thing in the world to solve.

    Truth of the matter is, if you go back and look at who the Vikings could have actually drafted, they just haven't had the chance to draft a "Franchise QB".

    Obtaining a stopgap QB like McNabb/Hasselbeck/Orton et. al. is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look at the past few teams to win the Super Bowl: the Green Bay Packers won Super Bowl XLV with Aaron Rodgers, The Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII with Ben Roethlisberger, the Colts won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning, and of course the Patriots won Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII and XXXIX with Tom Brady. All of these quarterbacks were drafted to fit the system of the team they were drafted to and groomed to fit said system. I believe that the Vikings can't afford to keep finding stopgap quarterbacks to fill the void any longer and it's time to draft one to fit the system that Leslie Frasier and Bill Musgrave want to implement.
    That right there is an excellent point. Problem is, this team doesn't have the support to groome a QB even if we had the chance to draft one. Fans aren't patient enough, they start squacking about not buying tickets and you wind up with new coaching, new schemes etc and you still have the same problem, no talent to groome.

    Again, for no fault of the HC that just got fired.

    The million dollar question is how they actually go about doing that starting with the 2011 NFL Draft.
    You don't. There are no "Franchise QB's" in this draft unless of course you consider Newton or Gabbert of that ilk. Again, neither of those will be around at 12 to pick, if they are considered "Franchise QB's".

    Do we trade down to get more picks, take BPA at number 12 then take a quarterback in Round 2, draft the best quarterback available at pick Number 12? I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer until several years proceeding this draft to for sure find out what the best move could have been but nevertheless I think it's finally time to actually draft our guy.
    First, you have to have a partner to trade down, second, you need to have someone sitting there at 12 that the partner wants.

    When I look at how the draft is probably gonna evolve, there are 4 or 5 guys worth taking at 12, but none of them are the kindof guy that a team is going to move up to get.

    I've been saying this for months but Christian Ponder out of Florida State would be the ideal choice for us and his stock only continues to climb after having an outstanding Combine session and just recently a highly-reviewed Pro Day. I would be ecstatic if the Vikings took him with the 12th overall pick, despite the fact that it would be a "reach" to get him there. He proved at his Pro Day that the injuries sustained during the 2010-2011 season are healed and he has great poise and a degree of intelligence about him that he displays during interviews. I really, truly believe he could be the next great quarterback in the NFL and I hope that Spielman and the Vikings take a SERIOUS look at drafting him as our quarterback, even if it means taking him with the 12th overall pick. Plus, with the amount of negativity surrounding Chris Cook and Everson Griffen in the offseason it'd be a breath of fresh air to take a guy with zero character concerns and a natural leader. I'll probably be bummed out and the Vikings will draft Mallet or Locker and this whole post will be a pipe dream but long story short I think this kid has what it takes to be a leader for our team for the next decade and I highly implore the Vikings staff to give him a serious look before throwing the pick away and letting another team draft him and ride into the sunset with the next great NFL quarterback.

    In case you all couldn't tell I really like Ponder, lol. Feel free to rip my post apart now, haha...
    There-in lies the rub. Sure he has talent, but talent alone doesn't get you taken high in this league.

    No way in heck they take a kid like Ponder at 12. First, even though you like him, his injury issue alone knock him back into the second round.

    You wanna go out and sign him to a long term, big gauranteed contract only to have him get hurt in the first OTA and then be assed out, both in money, but in a player as well?

    No team works that way. None. I bet he is still there in the third round if teams still worry about his health.

    Look, I like the kid. He was the first one I studied and at first I really thought he would be a good fit. Truth of the matter is, he is a good fit, until you start looking at his injury issues.

    Back to your first point. We might solve our QB woes in this years draft but IMHO, we won't. Mostly because all of these QB's have issues and none of the issues will be overcome in a year or two.

    Anything longer than that and we will have a new coach, again, cause the fans will start whinning and crying, the owner will get nervous and Leslie's 3 year contract will be voided and a new guy will come in.

    and......WE WILL START OVER. Again, because we don't have a patient fan base my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #46
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092025
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1092014
    ......snip..... The truth is, to win in the NFL you need a franchise quarterback.
    That is about the easiest thing in the world to say, but yet, the hardest thing in the world to solve.

    Truth of the matter is, if you go back and look at who the Vikings could have actually drafted, they just haven't had the chance to draft a "Franchise QB".

    Obtaining a stopgap QB like McNabb/Hasselbeck/Orton et. al. is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look at the past few teams to win the Super Bowl: the Green Bay Packers won Super Bowl XLV with Aaron Rodgers, The Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII with Ben Roethlisberger, the Colts won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning, and of course the Patriots won Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII and XXXIX with Tom Brady. All of these quarterbacks were drafted to fit the system of the team they were drafted to and groomed to fit said system. I believe that the Vikings can't afford to keep finding stopgap quarterbacks to fill the void any longer and it's time to draft one to fit the system that Leslie Frasier and Bill Musgrave want to implement.
    That right there is an excellent point. Problem is, this team doesn't have the support to groome a QB even if we had the chance to draft one. Fans aren't patient enough, they start squacking about not buying tickets and you wind up with new coaching, new schemes etc and you still have the same problem, no talent to groome.

    Again, for no fault of the HC that just got fired.

    The million dollar question is how they actually go about doing that starting with the 2011 NFL Draft.
    You don't. There are no "Franchise QB's" in this draft unless of course you consider Newton or Gabbert of that ilk. Again, neither of those will be around at 12 to pick, if they are considered "Franchise QB's".

    Do we trade down to get more picks, take BPA at number 12 then take a quarterback in Round 2, draft the best quarterback available at pick Number 12? I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer until several years proceeding this draft to for sure find out what the best move could have been but nevertheless I think it's finally time to actually draft our guy.
    First, you have to have a partner to trade down, second, you need to have someone sitting there at 12 that the partner wants.

    When I look at how the draft is probably gonna evolve, there are 4 or 5 guys worth taking at 12, but none of them are the kindof guy that a team is going to move up to get.

    I've been saying this for months but Christian Ponder out of Florida State would be the ideal choice for us and his stock only continues to climb after having an outstanding Combine session and just recently a highly-reviewed Pro Day. I would be ecstatic if the Vikings took him with the 12th overall pick, despite the fact that it would be a "reach" to get him there. He proved at his Pro Day that the injuries sustained during the 2010-2011 season are healed and he has great poise and a degree of intelligence about him that he displays during interviews. I really, truly believe he could be the next great quarterback in the NFL and I hope that Spielman and the Vikings take a SERIOUS look at drafting him as our quarterback, even if it means taking him with the 12th overall pick. Plus, with the amount of negativity surrounding Chris Cook and Everson Griffen in the offseason it'd be a breath of fresh air to take a guy with zero character concerns and a natural leader. I'll probably be bummed out and the Vikings will draft Mallet or Locker and this whole post will be a pipe dream but long story short I think this kid has what it takes to be a leader for our team for the next decade and I highly implore the Vikings staff to give him a serious look before throwing the pick away and letting another team draft him and ride into the sunset with the next great NFL quarterback.

    In case you all couldn't tell I really like Ponder, lol. Feel free to rip my post apart now, haha...
    There-in lies the rub. Sure he has talent, but talent alone doesn't get you taken high in this league.

    No way in heck they take a kid like Ponder at 12. First, even though you like him, his injury issue alone knock him back into the second round.

    You wanna go out and sign him to a long term, big gauranteed contract only to have him get hurt in the first OTA and then be assed out, both in money, but in a player as well?

    No team works that way. None. I bet he is still there in the third round if teams still worry about his health.

    Look, I like the kid. He was the first one I studied and at first I really thought he would be a good fit. Truth of the matter is, he is a good fit, until you start looking at his injury issues.

    Back to your first point. We might solve our QB woes in this years draft but IMHO, we won't. Mostly because all of these QB's have issues and none of the issues will be overcome in a year or two.

    Anything longer than that and we will have a new coach, again, cause the fans will start whinning and crying, the owner will get nervous and Leslie's 3 year contract will be voided and a new guy will come in.

    and......WE WILL START OVER. Again, because we don't have a patient fan base my friend.
    When you put a player on the FIELD, and THEN expect a "patient fan base"....no, you're not going to get it. No one is.

    But to say we couldn't have developed a QB is flat out BS.

    In '08 preseason, I was one of the very few saying, "Start Holcomb, let Jackson develop". I got shouted down by the QB experts here who claimed Jackson could only develop on the field...

    ..well. We see how well THAT worked out. Now, those SAME experts are saying Jackson had no support, no team, no (fill in missing component here).

    Bottom line, had the Vikings NOT rushed to start Jackson - had the idiot HC NOT been so full of himself - the "Project" would have had time to develop.

    But when you put a product on the field, and year after year claim, "It's ready", the fans expect that product to be ready.

    And when that product is woefully inadequate, that goes DIRECTLY on to the HC.

    There were no "yutz fans" here trying to tear Jackson down out of spite or ignorance. There was 1 moron, egotistical HC who pushed a player out too soon, claimed he was ready (repeatedly), then KEPT DOING THE SAME THING.

    Chiller ruined Jackson...the fans simply didn't take his BS any longer.

    Caine

  7. #47
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092029
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092025
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1092014
    ......snip..... The truth is, to win in the NFL you need a franchise quarterback.
    That is about the easiest thing in the world to say, but yet, the hardest thing in the world to solve.

    Truth of the matter is, if you go back and look at who the Vikings could have actually drafted, they just haven't had the chance to draft a "Franchise QB".

    Obtaining a stopgap QB like McNabb/Hasselbeck/Orton et. al. is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look at the past few teams to win the Super Bowl: the Green Bay Packers won Super Bowl XLV with Aaron Rodgers, The Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII with Ben Roethlisberger, the Colts won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning, and of course the Patriots won Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII and XXXIX with Tom Brady. All of these quarterbacks were drafted to fit the system of the team they were drafted to and groomed to fit said system. I believe that the Vikings can't afford to keep finding stopgap quarterbacks to fill the void any longer and it's time to draft one to fit the system that Leslie Frasier and Bill Musgrave want to implement.
    That right there is an excellent point. Problem is, this team doesn't have the support to groome a QB even if we had the chance to draft one. Fans aren't patient enough, they start squacking about not buying tickets and you wind up with new coaching, new schemes etc and you still have the same problem, no talent to groome.

    Again, for no fault of the HC that just got fired.

    The million dollar question is how they actually go about doing that starting with the 2011 NFL Draft.
    You don't. There are no "Franchise QB's" in this draft unless of course you consider Newton or Gabbert of that ilk. Again, neither of those will be around at 12 to pick, if they are considered "Franchise QB's".

    Do we trade down to get more picks, take BPA at number 12 then take a quarterback in Round 2, draft the best quarterback available at pick Number 12? I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer until several years proceeding this draft to for sure find out what the best move could have been but nevertheless I think it's finally time to actually draft our guy.
    First, you have to have a partner to trade down, second, you need to have someone sitting there at 12 that the partner wants.

    When I look at how the draft is probably gonna evolve, there are 4 or 5 guys worth taking at 12, but none of them are the kindof guy that a team is going to move up to get.

    I've been saying this for months but Christian Ponder out of Florida State would be the ideal choice for us and his stock only continues to climb after having an outstanding Combine session and just recently a highly-reviewed Pro Day. I would be ecstatic if the Vikings took him with the 12th overall pick, despite the fact that it would be a "reach" to get him there. He proved at his Pro Day that the injuries sustained during the 2010-2011 season are healed and he has great poise and a degree of intelligence about him that he displays during interviews. I really, truly believe he could be the next great quarterback in the NFL and I hope that Spielman and the Vikings take a SERIOUS look at drafting him as our quarterback, even if it means taking him with the 12th overall pick. Plus, with the amount of negativity surrounding Chris Cook and Everson Griffen in the offseason it'd be a breath of fresh air to take a guy with zero character concerns and a natural leader. I'll probably be bummed out and the Vikings will draft Mallet or Locker and this whole post will be a pipe dream but long story short I think this kid has what it takes to be a leader for our team for the next decade and I highly implore the Vikings staff to give him a serious look before throwing the pick away and letting another team draft him and ride into the sunset with the next great NFL quarterback.

    In case you all couldn't tell I really like Ponder, lol. Feel free to rip my post apart now, haha...
    There-in lies the rub. Sure he has talent, but talent alone doesn't get you taken high in this league.

    No way in heck they take a kid like Ponder at 12. First, even though you like him, his injury issue alone knock him back into the second round.

    You wanna go out and sign him to a long term, big gauranteed contract only to have him get hurt in the first OTA and then be assed out, both in money, but in a player as well?

    No team works that way. None. I bet he is still there in the third round if teams still worry about his health.

    Look, I like the kid. He was the first one I studied and at first I really thought he would be a good fit. Truth of the matter is, he is a good fit, until you start looking at his injury issues.

    Back to your first point. We might solve our QB woes in this years draft but IMHO, we won't. Mostly because all of these QB's have issues and none of the issues will be overcome in a year or two.

    Anything longer than that and we will have a new coach, again, cause the fans will start whinning and crying, the owner will get nervous and Leslie's 3 year contract will be voided and a new guy will come in.

    and......WE WILL START OVER. Again, because we don't have a patient fan base my friend.
    When you put a player on the FIELD, and THEN expect a "patient fan base"....no, you're not going to get it. No one is.

    But to say we couldn't have developed a QB is flat out BS.

    In '08 preseason, I was one of the very few saying, "Start Holcomb, let Jackson develop". I got shouted down by the QB experts here who claimed Jackson could only develop on the field...

    ..well. We see how well THAT worked out. Now, those SAME experts are saying Jackson had no support, no team, no (fill in missing component here).

    Bottom line, had the Vikings NOT rushed to start Jackson - had the idiot HC NOT been so full of himself - the "Project" would have had time to develop.

    But when you put a product on the field, and year after year claim, "It's ready", the fans expect that product to be ready.

    And when that product is woefully inadequate, that goes DIRECTLY on to the HC.

    There were no "yutz fans" here trying to tear Jackson down out of spite or ignorance. There was 1 moron, egotistical HC who pushed a player out too soon, claimed he was ready (repeatedly), then KEPT DOING THE SAME THING.

    Chiller ruined Jackson...the fans simply didn't take his BS any longer.

    Caine
    Again I will ask the most obvious of questions.....

    Who was the idiot coach supposed to start?

    Look, I'm not saying that I think the Chiller was right. You know that at first I wasn't even that excited about TJ, even as a project.

    What I am trying to say is that at times I can see why they would put him out there and let him get reps, mostly cause there just wasnt' anything better out there.

    As I've said repeatedly, I think that the reps he got over time, along with watching Gus and then the Noodle, is a sum total of the growing process he went through and is why I think, for the very first time, he was ready in 09 and is even more ready in 10.

    Because you believed the smoke that the Chiller said when he ran him out there, doesn't mean he was ready. It just means the Chiller wasn't going to say...

    "Hell no he isn't ready." Seriously, what would you say?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #48
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092040
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1092029
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092025
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1092014
    ......snip..... The truth is, to win in the NFL you need a franchise quarterback.
    That is about the easiest thing in the world to say, but yet, the hardest thing in the world to solve.

    Truth of the matter is, if you go back and look at who the Vikings could have actually drafted, they just haven't had the chance to draft a "Franchise QB".

    Obtaining a stopgap QB like McNabb/Hasselbeck/Orton et. al. is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look at the past few teams to win the Super Bowl: the Green Bay Packers won Super Bowl XLV with Aaron Rodgers, The Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII with Ben Roethlisberger, the Colts won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning, and of course the Patriots won Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII and XXXIX with Tom Brady. All of these quarterbacks were drafted to fit the system of the team they were drafted to and groomed to fit said system. I believe that the Vikings can't afford to keep finding stopgap quarterbacks to fill the void any longer and it's time to draft one to fit the system that Leslie Frasier and Bill Musgrave want to implement.
    That right there is an excellent point. Problem is, this team doesn't have the support to groome a QB even if we had the chance to draft one. Fans aren't patient enough, they start squacking about not buying tickets and you wind up with new coaching, new schemes etc and you still have the same problem, no talent to groome.

    Again, for no fault of the HC that just got fired.

    The million dollar question is how they actually go about doing that starting with the 2011 NFL Draft.
    You don't. There are no "Franchise QB's" in this draft unless of course you consider Newton or Gabbert of that ilk. Again, neither of those will be around at 12 to pick, if they are considered "Franchise QB's".

    Do we trade down to get more picks, take BPA at number 12 then take a quarterback in Round 2, draft the best quarterback available at pick Number 12? I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer until several years proceeding this draft to for sure find out what the best move could have been but nevertheless I think it's finally time to actually draft our guy.
    First, you have to have a partner to trade down, second, you need to have someone sitting there at 12 that the partner wants.

    When I look at how the draft is probably gonna evolve, there are 4 or 5 guys worth taking at 12, but none of them are the kindof guy that a team is going to move up to get.

    I've been saying this for months but Christian Ponder out of Florida State would be the ideal choice for us and his stock only continues to climb after having an outstanding Combine session and just recently a highly-reviewed Pro Day. I would be ecstatic if the Vikings took him with the 12th overall pick, despite the fact that it would be a "reach" to get him there. He proved at his Pro Day that the injuries sustained during the 2010-2011 season are healed and he has great poise and a degree of intelligence about him that he displays during interviews. I really, truly believe he could be the next great quarterback in the NFL and I hope that Spielman and the Vikings take a SERIOUS look at drafting him as our quarterback, even if it means taking him with the 12th overall pick. Plus, with the amount of negativity surrounding Chris Cook and Everson Griffen in the offseason it'd be a breath of fresh air to take a guy with zero character concerns and a natural leader. I'll probably be bummed out and the Vikings will draft Mallet or Locker and this whole post will be a pipe dream but long story short I think this kid has what it takes to be a leader for our team for the next decade and I highly implore the Vikings staff to give him a serious look before throwing the pick away and letting another team draft him and ride into the sunset with the next great NFL quarterback.

    In case you all couldn't tell I really like Ponder, lol. Feel free to rip my post apart now, haha...
    There-in lies the rub. Sure he has talent, but talent alone doesn't get you taken high in this league.

    No way in heck they take a kid like Ponder at 12. First, even though you like him, his injury issue alone knock him back into the second round.

    You wanna go out and sign him to a long term, big gauranteed contract only to have him get hurt in the first OTA and then be assed out, both in money, but in a player as well?

    No team works that way. None. I bet he is still there in the third round if teams still worry about his health.

    Look, I like the kid. He was the first one I studied and at first I really thought he would be a good fit. Truth of the matter is, he is a good fit, until you start looking at his injury issues.

    Back to your first point. We might solve our QB woes in this years draft but IMHO, we won't. Mostly because all of these QB's have issues and none of the issues will be overcome in a year or two.

    Anything longer than that and we will have a new coach, again, cause the fans will start whinning and crying, the owner will get nervous and Leslie's 3 year contract will be voided and a new guy will come in.

    and......WE WILL START OVER. Again, because we don't have a patient fan base my friend.
    When you put a player on the FIELD, and THEN expect a "patient fan base"....no, you're not going to get it. No one is.

    But to say we couldn't have developed a QB is flat out BS.

    In '08 preseason, I was one of the very few saying, "Start Holcomb, let Jackson develop". I got shouted down by the QB experts here who claimed Jackson could only develop on the field...

    ..well. We see how well THAT worked out. Now, those SAME experts are saying Jackson had no support, no team, no (fill in missing component here).

    Bottom line, had the Vikings NOT rushed to start Jackson - had the idiot HC NOT been so full of himself - the "Project" would have had time to develop.

    But when you put a product on the field, and year after year claim, "It's ready", the fans expect that product to be ready.

    And when that product is woefully inadequate, that goes DIRECTLY on to the HC.

    There were no "yutz fans" here trying to tear Jackson down out of spite or ignorance. There was 1 moron, egotistical HC who pushed a player out too soon, claimed he was ready (repeatedly), then KEPT DOING THE SAME THING.

    Chiller ruined Jackson...the fans simply didn't take his BS any longer.

    Caine
    Again I will ask the most obvious of questions.....

    Who was the idiot coach supposed to start?
    Who did he have? No one.

    Why? Because he didn't go AFTER anyone.

    Why? Because he was a moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092040
    Look, I'm not saying that I think the Chiller was right. You know that at first I wasn't even that excited about TJ, even as a project.
    Then why are you continuing to SUPPORT Chiller? You don't get to sit on the fence at this point. You chose to fight FOR Chiller...fine. But don't try and reverse it now, it just doesn't fly.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092040
    What I am trying to say is that at times I can see why they would put him out there and let him get reps, mostly cause there just wasnt' anything better out there.
    Again, because they had no one else.

    Why? Because Chiller didn't GET anyone else.

    Why? Because Chiller was an egotistical jackass.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092040
    As I've said repeatedly, I think that the reps he got over time, along with watching Gus and then the Noodle, is a sum total of the growing process he went through and is why I think, for the very first time, he was ready in 09 and is even more ready in 10.
    Which explains why he sucked ass in '10. And in '09 preseason.

    Look, Jackson NEVER turned the corner. As Warren Sapp likes to say, "Potential is the most wasted thing in the NFL". He talks about guys who have the "potential" but never get it done ON THE FIELD.

    that was Jackson. He never got it done when it mattered.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092040
    Because you believed the smoke that the Chiller said when he ran him out there, doesn't mean he was ready. It just means the Chiller wasn't going to say...

    "Hell no he isn't ready." Seriously, what would you say?
    Wait a minute...above you said Jackson WAS ready...now you're back to he wasn't? Which was it?

    And, again, if he WAS ready, why couldn't he show it ON THE FIELD?

    And if he wasn't ready, whose fault is it that there was no other option?

    I'll give you a hint...it rhymes with "Filler".

    Pick a side of the fence and stay on it.

    Caine

  9. #49
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Dear Leslie Fraizer,

    Please don't draft the pot smoking coke head from Arkansas that ran slower than most of the offensive linemen at the combine.

    Thank you,

    A Fan.
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  10. #50
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    Re: NFL Network: Should The Vikings Draft A QB?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1092025
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dibbzz" #1092014
    ......snip..... The truth is, to win in the NFL you need a franchise quarterback.
    That is about the easiest thing in the world to say, but yet, the hardest thing in the world to solve.

    Truth of the matter is, if you go back and look at who the Vikings could have actually drafted, they just haven't had the chance to draft a "Franchise QB".

    Obtaining a stopgap QB like McNabb/Hasselbeck/Orton et. al. is a short term solution to a long term problem. Look at the past few teams to win the Super Bowl: the Green Bay Packers won Super Bowl XLV with Aaron Rodgers, The Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII with Ben Roethlisberger, the Colts won Super Bowl XLI with Peyton Manning, and of course the Patriots won Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII and XXXIX with Tom Brady. All of these quarterbacks were drafted to fit the system of the team they were drafted to and groomed to fit said system. I believe that the Vikings can't afford to keep finding stopgap quarterbacks to fill the void any longer and it's time to draft one to fit the system that Leslie Frasier and Bill Musgrave want to implement.
    That right there is an excellent point. Problem is, this team doesn't have the support to groome a QB even if we had the chance to draft one. Fans aren't patient enough, they start squacking about not buying tickets and you wind up with new coaching, new schemes etc and you still have the same problem, no talent to groome.

    Again, for no fault of the HC that just got fired.

    The million dollar question is how they actually go about doing that starting with the 2011 NFL Draft.
    You don't. There are no "Franchise QB's" in this draft unless of course you consider Newton or Gabbert of that ilk. Again, neither of those will be around at 12 to pick, if they are considered "Franchise QB's".

    Do we trade down to get more picks, take BPA at number 12 then take a quarterback in Round 2, draft the best quarterback available at pick Number 12? I really don't think there's a right or wrong answer until several years proceeding this draft to for sure find out what the best move could have been but nevertheless I think it's finally time to actually draft our guy.
    First, you have to have a partner to trade down, second, you need to have someone sitting there at 12 that the partner wants.

    When I look at how the draft is probably gonna evolve, there are 4 or 5 guys worth taking at 12, but none of them are the kindof guy that a team is going to move up to get.

    I've been saying this for months but Christian Ponder out of Florida State would be the ideal choice for us and his stock only continues to climb after having an outstanding Combine session and just recently a highly-reviewed Pro Day. I would be ecstatic if the Vikings took him with the 12th overall pick, despite the fact that it would be a "reach" to get him there. He proved at his Pro Day that the injuries sustained during the 2010-2011 season are healed and he has great poise and a degree of intelligence about him that he displays during interviews. I really, truly believe he could be the next great quarterback in the NFL and I hope that Spielman and the Vikings take a SERIOUS look at drafting him as our quarterback, even if it means taking him with the 12th overall pick. Plus, with the amount of negativity surrounding Chris Cook and Everson Griffen in the offseason it'd be a breath of fresh air to take a guy with zero character concerns and a natural leader. I'll probably be bummed out and the Vikings will draft Mallet or Locker and this whole post will be a pipe dream but long story short I think this kid has what it takes to be a leader for our team for the next decade and I highly implore the Vikings staff to give him a serious look before throwing the pick away and letting another team draft him and ride into the sunset with the next great NFL quarterback.

    In case you all couldn't tell I really like Ponder, lol. Feel free to rip my post apart now, haha...
    There-in lies the rub. Sure he has talent, but talent alone doesn't get you taken high in this league.

    No way in heck they take a kid like Ponder at 12. First, even though you like him, his injury issue alone knock him back into the second round.

    You wanna go out and sign him to a long term, big gauranteed contract only to have him get hurt in the first OTA and then be assed out, both in money, but in a player as well?

    No team works that way. None. I bet he is still there in the third round if teams still worry about his health.

    Look, I like the kid. He was the first one I studied and at first I really thought he would be a good fit. Truth of the matter is, he is a good fit, until you start looking at his injury issues.

    Back to your first point. We might solve our QB woes in this years draft but IMHO, we won't. Mostly because all of these QB's have issues and none of the issues will be overcome in a year or two.

    Anything longer than that and we will have a new coach, again, cause the fans will start whinning and crying, the owner will get nervous and Leslie's 3 year contract will be voided and a new guy will come in.

    and......WE WILL START OVER. Again, because we don't have a patient fan base my friend.
    Now stop that.

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