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  1. #41
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1093949
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093884
    Quote Originally Posted by "jessejames09" #1093847
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093770
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1093764
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093697
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1093696
    One thing I like about your analysis of Ray, it's not a popularity contest. Ray wont be noted as a fan favorite. But he can play.
    He may not hold up but he's done a fine job so far.
    Agree. I, like you, look at other things, especially when you talk LDE's, other than sacks to base my opinion of how well a cat plays.

    Ray, IMHO, has played his ass off over there and hasn't beyyyatched a bit about that role (i.e Haynesworth).

    Only knock I have on Ray is that he was roiding up. Again, I relate/attribute that to his frame really better being suited to the RDE role.

    Others see his lack of sacks and say he sucks or doesn't play to their expectations.

    Preaching to the choir here bro.. I've been looking for a pocket collapsing/penetrating DT for the last couple years.
    I hear ya, got you on that spreadsheet. By the way, that spreadsheet isn't as full as the one were everyone keeps asking to upgrade CB's to fix things instead of fixing that which is really wrong.
    I guess i am on the other spreadsheet then because even when we were getting pressure up the middle the WRs we faced were catching passes uncontested.
    Lets not forget the premise behind what a CB is asked to do in the Cover 2......

    Let the reciever catch the ball in front of him, close for the tackle, limit YAC.

    They are not asked to go out and get INT's. Not part of the scheme.

    BTW Quick Question:

    How many INT's have we gotten out of the secondary in the past 5 years and is that number trending up or down?(Don't include any INT's from Sharper because we know he sucked )
    Sharp was a prime example of what DB's are asked to do in the cover 2 scheme. He got very few and then, when he left he racked up a bunch.

    Long story short, you want to see INT's by our DB's, you have to change the scheme.
    Not true, at all. Tampa in 2002-2003, John Gruden challenged that Defence to score and they did. All the way to a Superbowl win.

    Or how about the bears I'd say between 04 and 07 that was probably the most vaunted defence in the league at that point. And they forced turnovers, a lot of them.

    Both played the cover 2. Our issues in the backfield are lack of depth at cb and talent at safety. Not scheme.
    What was the front 4 doing on those teams. Take alook, they all have a heck of alot more production with respect to pressure from the front 4 that our defenses do...
    Appreciate all the effort and the lengthiness of that post. But around here is where I would cut you off, if we were speaking face to face, to say:

    Exactly! With player that can run the scheme it's a great defence for forcing interceptions, imo one of the best.

    Who cares if we don't get to see a Darelle Revis type guy shutting down a side of the field. Or that we don't have a Darren, Cant Tackle, Sharper running amok at FS. Turnovers are turnovers.

    Problem for us right now is we don't have the players to run the scheme properly, or any scheme imo.. Depth at CB, a starting safety and a solid DT are all priorities, and that's if we can coax Ray into coming back.
    And here is were I would remind you were we ranked last year in pass protection, all the while using backup DB's (depth) while our starting DB's were on the bench and our front 4 were basically non existant for most of the year.

    Again, if we elect to stick with the scheme as Leslie has contended so for, I think we are fine at CB when Cook and Griff get back.

    Griff can play a bit more press if asked and I think Asher was showing signs of that ability later on in the season when Pagac took over.

    S, I agree. Especially when you consider that Hussain, who the light finally seemed to come on for last year, is a FA. Sanford is still under contract and is an up and comer and I know most don't like M-will, but his lack of production in the INT world can be attributed to the scheme. Most of the "Poor angles" he seems to take I kindof blame the D-coord for.

    For some reason it seems we always have JA dialed up on rushing the QB when the play is set up to be a running play. Long story short, JA isn't the only one out of position when that happens and if you start the play out of position your always gonna be out of position and the angles you will have to take to componsate will look ugly.

    DT. The wild card in all of this is Guion. Will he be able to fill in for Phat Pat after he leaves. Again, my guess is no as he is more of a 3/5 tech guy and when he was asked to take a shaded 1 tech approach to the plays he didn't look good, but truth of the matter is, even Kdubb and guys like JK looked bad trying to shade the 1.

    On a side note, even though you try to get me to stop, I won't. I will get you going again.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #42
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "delviking" #1093951
    Personally i think were gonna see a bit more in the turn over Diff but also see big plays happen a bit more in the Frazier/Pagac defense
    A good example was the eagles game we had great pressure and it effected vick right from the start.

    Overall the best Defense we played for the season
    Del, I agree 100%. I really think that coach Pagac was a godsend last year when he took over.

    Can't wait to see how he uses Griff (LDE) and Griff (CB) this year. Griff (LDE) when he was on the field with Guion was all over the place (RDE/LDE/3 tech) and Griff (CB) can play abit of press when asked.

    In short, defense is the least of my concerns, especially if they get a "War Pig" that can shade the C in the 1 tech and eat up two blockers (and beat them), resign Hussain and get Cook and Griff back healthy.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #43
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093976

    Can't wait to see how he uses Griff (LDE) and Griff (CB) this year.
    I'd be more concerned about IF Griff is usable anymore. The guy is coming off TWO (2, ii, II, 1<x<3) torn ACL's. At a position where they are required to be as quick, if not quicker than the guy they are trying to cover, that can really hurt him. I don't really know about this, but how many corners have successfully come back after two torn ACL's on opposite knees? I doubt that many. We were talking about moving Winfield to Safety before, perhaps Griffin might be a better option back there than at Corner.

  4. #44
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094005
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093976

    Can't wait to see how he uses Griff (LDE) and Griff (CB) this year.
    I'd be more concerned about IF Griff is usable anymore. The guy is coming off TWO (2, ii, II, 1<x<3) torn ACL's. At a position where they are required to be as quick, if not quicker than the guy they are trying to cover, that can really hurt him. I don't really know about this, but how many corners have successfully come back after two torn ACL's on opposite knees? I doubt that many. We were talking about moving Winfield to Safety before, perhaps Griffin might be a better option back there than at Corner.
    I need to go dig that thread I make a couple of years ago about moving Whinny and Griff to S's.

    Boy was that not well recieved. Maybe I won't be considered such a chucklehead now. :P

    As to Griffs knee. From what I read yesterday, the teams still have a responsibility to make sure hurt players are fixed/taken care of. To date we have heard nothing that leads me to believe that Griff isn't tracking for a return.

    Until then, I am going on the assumption that he will be there.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #45
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094033
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094005
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093976

    Can't wait to see how he uses Griff (LDE) and Griff (CB) this year.
    I'd be more concerned about IF Griff is usable anymore. The guy is coming off TWO (2, ii, II, 1<x<3) torn ACL's. At a position where they are required to be as quick, if not quicker than the guy they are trying to cover, that can really hurt him. I don't really know about this, but how many corners have successfully come back after two torn ACL's on opposite knees? I doubt that many. We were talking about moving Winfield to Safety before, perhaps Griffin might be a better option back there than at Corner.
    I need to go dig that thread I make a couple of years ago about moving Whinny and Griff to S's.

    Boy was that not well recieved. Maybe I won't be considered such a chucklehead now. :P



    As to Griffs knee. From what I read yesterday, the teams still have a responsibility to make sure hurt players are fixed/taken care of. To date we have heard nothing that leads me to believe that Griff isn't tracking for a return.

    Until then, I am going on the assumption that he will be there.
    Remember, Griffin is not allowed to talk with coaches or team doctors, so how do you expect to find out anything?

  6. #46
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094037
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094033
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094005
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1093976

    Can't wait to see how he uses Griff (LDE) and Griff (CB) this year.
    I'd be more concerned about IF Griff is usable anymore. The guy is coming off TWO (2, ii, II, 1<x<3) torn ACL's. At a position where they are required to be as quick, if not quicker than the guy they are trying to cover, that can really hurt him. I don't really know about this, but how many corners have successfully come back after two torn ACL's on opposite knees? I doubt that many. We were talking about moving Winfield to Safety before, perhaps Griffin might be a better option back there than at Corner.
    I need to go dig that thread I make a couple of years ago about moving Whinny and Griff to S's.

    Boy was that not well recieved. Maybe I won't be considered such a chucklehead now. :P



    As to Griffs knee. From what I read yesterday, the teams still have a responsibility to make sure hurt players are fixed/taken care of. To date we have heard nothing that leads me to believe that Griff isn't tracking for a return.Until then, I am going on the assumption that he will be there.
    Remember, Griffin is not allowed to talk with coaches or team doctors, so how do you expect to find out anything?
    Posted the article on here yesterday.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #47
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Ok, so how many players do you hear of who get hurt and say 'well, its rough, I don't think ill play again..' You don't. They're always saying they want to grt back asap and play. However, even if they claim there 100%, often they are not. Some guys come back and just aren't the same. A corner with two blown acls has a good shot at not being the same player he used to be, regardless of what her may claim

  8. #48
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094042
    Ok, so how many players do you hear of who get hurt and say 'well, its rough, I don't think ill play again..' You don't. They're always saying they want to grt back asap and play. However, even if they claim there 100%, often they are not. Some guys come back and just aren't the same. A corner with two blown acls has a good shot at not being the same player he used to be, regardless of what her may claim
    I can buy into that thought, however, until I hear something from either the player or the staff to the contrary, I am still tracking him as on the roster and a viable starter.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #49
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094045
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094042
    Ok, so how many players do you hear of who get hurt and say 'well, its rough, I don't think ill play again..' You don't. They're always saying they want to grt back asap and play. However, even if they claim there 100%, often they are not. Some guys come back and just aren't the same. A corner with two blown acls has a good shot at not being the same player he used to be, regardless of what her may claim
    I can buy into that thought, however, until I hear something from either the player or the staff to the contrary, I am still tracking him as on the roster and a viable starter.
    He'll be on the roster, but be realistic. Recovering from an ACL takes a long time. What Griffen managed last season recovery-wise was a rarity, not the norm. (look how much good that early comeback did him).

    Further on that point, I bet his injury had alot to do with rushing back to the game. With a torn ACL, he can't run, he can't train. Most of his offseason was spent recovering, not getting into game shape. I bet that had an awful lot to do with his injury. Just not being in game shape. Alot of it was just unlucky, being hit the wrong way, but I bet a bit of it was lack of training.

    If he rushes back again, he'll have two weak knees. He'll be training on his own, not with the team. He won't be evaluated by team doctors, he won't be told when to take it easy. Sure, he'l lhave his own doctor say he should relax, but if he's dead set on a comeback, do you think he'll listen and stop training? I have my doubts. At least while working with the team, a coach or trainer can physically stop him from working if he's overdoing it.

  10. #50
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    Re: Music to Marrdro's Ears (Twist in McShay's draft)

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094049
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1094045
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094042
    Ok, so how many players do you hear of who get hurt and say 'well, its rough, I don't think ill play again..' You don't. They're always saying they want to grt back asap and play. However, even if they claim there 100%, often they are not. Some guys come back and just aren't the same. A corner with two blown acls has a good shot at not being the same player he used to be, regardless of what her may claim
    I can buy into that thought, however, until I hear something from either the player or the staff to the contrary, I am still tracking him as on the roster and a viable starter.
    He'll be on the roster, but be realistic. Recovering from an ACL takes a long time. What Griffen managed last season recovery-wise was a rarity, not the norm. (look how much good that early comeback did him).

    Further on that point, I bet his injury had alot to do with rushing back to the game. With a torn ACL, he can't run, he can't train. Most of his offseason was spent recovering, not getting into game shape. I bet that had an awful lot to do with his injury. Just not being in game shape. Alot of it was just unlucky, being hit the wrong way, but I bet a bit of it was lack of training.

    If he rushes back again, he'll have two weak knees. He'll be training on his own, not with the team. He won't be evaluated by team doctors, he won't be told when to take it easy. Sure, he'l lhave his own doctor say he should relax, but if he's dead set on a comeback, do you think he'll listen and stop training? I have my doubts. At least while working with the team, a coach or trainer can physically stop him from working if he's overdoing it.
    First, you need to read the article I posted. Our team doctors and staff that works strength and conditioning are allowed to work with players that are hurt.

    Second, he came back early last year (8 months if I remember right) because he is a fast healer. Because this happened early in the year, instead of at the end like the first knee, he will have almost a yar to recover. Assumption on my part is he should be ready to go.

    Third, he hurt the other knee (right one I think) so the one he injured the year before shouldn't be an issue.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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