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  1. #21
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "V4L" #1089556
    The thing about NTs is you can find one mid to late round.. Alot of great NTs have gone later and I don't think addressing it at 12 would help us at all

    I feel the Williams are good for one more year.. Mix in Letroy and Jimmy and it's just fine for the year.. Draft a young NT 3rd-6th and groom him..

    When Pat walks we have Kevin Letroy Jimmy and the young kid to rotate

    It's not all that hard to find a solid NT to tie up 2 blockers.. It's much harder to find other positions
    I tend to disagree with that point; I think it is a difficult spot to fill. There just aren't that many athletic guys who are large enough to play the position at a high level. These guys have to eat up 2 NFL sized OL men trying to drive them out of a running lane. You won't find any good run defense with a good NT, and these guys don't grow on trees.

  2. #22
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "seaniemck7" #1089563
    Quote Originally Posted by "V4L" #1089556
    The thing about NTs is you can find one mid to late round.. Alot of great NTs have gone later and I don't think addressing it at 12 would help us at all

    I feel the Williams are good for one more year.. Mix in Letroy and Jimmy and it's just fine for the year.. Draft a young NT 3rd-6th and groom him..

    When Pat walks we have Kevin Letroy Jimmy and the young kid to rotate

    It's not all that hard to find a solid NT to tie up 2 blockers.. It's much harder to find other positions
    I tend to disagree with that point; I think it is a difficult spot to fill. There just aren't that many athletic guys who are large enough to play the position at a high level. These guys have to eat up 2 NFL sized OL men trying to drive them out of a running lane. You won't find any good run defense with a good NT, and these guys don't grow on trees.
    Thanks Sean for adding some help here.

    For some reason, it appears there is a bit of confusion when it comes to the difference in DL play that we employ with our scheme vs what other teams do. Not every scheme requires a 0/3 technique.

    I can remember the first time I watched a DT play the nose in that manner. Jerry Ball.....

    Wasn't with the Vikes long, but the way he lined up sure made you scratch your head. Phat Pat, is better at it though, but Jerry was still fun to watch.

    Long story short, V4L is right, you can find a 3/5 technique DT deep into most drafts and we have several on the roster. Problem is, as I said in a previous post, when Phat Pat wasn't in there, K-dubb was the one that went over to that spot, not JK or Fred.

    I was surprised with the improvement Guion made this year though but his height is a concern when it comes to filling in for Pat this year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089546
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1089533
    Marr,
    I completely disagree. I don't believe that DT is an issue for us at all. Yes we don't have a run stuffing DT like PHAT Pat on our roster but the tandem of Kenndey, Evans and Guion was good enough to rank us 8th overall in D. I like to point out that out offense was abysmal last season so our true defensive rank is even lower. DT is the on position that is not an issue for us. I don't understand why you are unwilling to ahve the Vikes give a kid like Guion a shot to prove what they saw in him. You seem to only like drafting and then discarding.
    You do realize that when Phat Pat wasn't on the field we moved K-dubb over to the 0 tech right. When you did that, you basically took your DT playmaker out of the mix.

    In short, JK, Evans and Guion were not good enough or they wouldn't have had to rotate K-dubb over there.

    I'm suprised that you, of all posters on here, missed that this year.

    In short, 0 tech guys that can play that role in a 4-3 are real hard to find and are usually gone early on. If your sitting there at 12 and all the good QB's are gone, you have a deep draft at OT and WR, why not grab that DT?


    Look at our real issues.
    WR QB TE OL (Depth), Saftey
    @ WR we have no drpth. Percy has been proven to be MIA for a few games a season and Rice may never be the same. These are starters.

    QB - We have two on roster ( a converted WR and some other guy)


    TE - If Shank goes down god help us.
    OL - See Shank but replace his name with any of the starters. Have I mentioned that your boy Sully is not the answer and I will like to point out that running lanes seem to be lacking since Birk left.

    Saftey, Just bad. Really, really bad. Terrible angles, no plays on the ball, few if any passes broken up.

    How exactly is our poor DB play the lines fault. We don't make plays on the ball when pressure is there. We simply suck in the secondary.
    I hear ya and agree with your concerns at all area, however, as I said above, its has to do with who is available and how deep the draft is in each class.

    WR. This class has starting caliber/impact players into the 4th round this year. Why take one with 12 if you can get one in a lower round? You still get your WR and he won't cost you and arm and a leg when you are resigning after his rookie contract.

    TE. I don't think you base your number 12 draft pick based on a "He might get injured" concept. Second, most of the TE's in this class are either hybrid route runners with very few having any sort of "Inline" skills. The ones that do would be one hell of a reach at 12 IMHO. Again, why use a pick there on a TE?

    OL. I guess you missed my opinion on Pouncey. As I said to Mullett......Maybe you need to pay a bit more attention to what I'm typing/saying my friend. :P

    S. I wouldn't be apposed to taking a S. My only problem in that area is I haven't looked at any of them yet. Hell, I haven't really looked at many positions yet. If one drops there then I wouldn't slash my throat if one were taken.

    On a side note, our S play might not look so bad if the bigs up front were doing their job first.
    I think you missunderstood my listing of the positions. I wasn't saying we needed to address these with the 12 overall pick, but instead I was ranking them as a priority over a DL.

    With the 12th Pick
    I would like in this order

    1) One of the top 3 Qbs (might have to wait on combine to see these guys) ( Mallet, Gibson, Cam)

    2) A rare freak who has fallen thanks to God (AJ Green, Peterson, Fairley)

    3) One of the Top 3 OTs in the Draft.

    4) Replacement LB for Leber

    5) DL

    6) Trade back to the end of the 1st and acquire an extra 2nd round pick.

    I also believe that you should draft on what if a guy gets injuried. I believe that teams do not are caught with their pants down come when an injury does happen. We couldn't survive the loss of Griffen, but the pack was able to survive the lost of several key defenders this season.

  4. #24
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089564
    Quote Originally Posted by "seaniemck7" #1089563
    Quote Originally Posted by "V4L" #1089556
    The thing about NTs is you can find one mid to late round.. Alot of great NTs have gone later and I don't think addressing it at 12 would help us at all

    I feel the Williams are good for one more year.. Mix in Letroy and Jimmy and it's just fine for the year.. Draft a young NT 3rd-6th and groom him..

    When Pat walks we have Kevin Letroy Jimmy and the young kid to rotate

    It's not all that hard to find a solid NT to tie up 2 blockers.. It's much harder to find other positions
    I tend to disagree with that point; I think it is a difficult spot to fill. There just aren't that many athletic guys who are large enough to play the position at a high level. These guys have to eat up 2 NFL sized OL men trying to drive them out of a running lane. You won't find any good run defense with a good NT, and these guys don't grow on trees.
    Thanks Sean for adding some help here.

    For some reason, it appears there is a bit of confusion when it comes to the difference in DL play that we employ with our scheme vs what other teams do. Not every scheme requires a 0/3 technique.

    I can remember the first time I watched a DT play the nose in that manner. Jerry Ball.....

    Wasn't with the Vikes long, but the way he lined up sure made you scratch your head. Phat Pat, is better at it though, but Jerry was still fun to watch.

    Long story short, V4L is right, you can find a 3/5 technique DT deep into most drafts and we have several on the roster. Problem is, as I said in a previous post, when Phat Pat wasn't in there, K-dubb was the one that went over to that spot, not JK or Fred.

    I was surprised with the improvement Guion made this year though but his height is a concern when it comes to filling in for Pat this year.
    I think our scheme is primed and ready for a change to a 2 gap scheme. The fact that Kevin Williams had knee surgery this season is to no surprise. He looked slow and less explosive off the ball this season than in the past. I believe Fraiser saw this and realized that Evans and Kennedy are a bit more explosive off the ball than Williams this season.

    A bigger DL issue is the fact that Allen refuses to move around. because of this teams always know where to send help.

  5. #25
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    This is a little off-topic, actually a lot off topic, but is meant for those that are interested in the draft speculation, etc.

    There is a guy that has "reverse engineered" the compensatory draft pick system, and has been doing it for years. He usually comes out with his "picks" at least a month before they are announced, and is uncannily good at it, imo-

    This is one of those things you kind of put away for "future reference"

    Here is the link to his blog.

    http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/2010/03/comparing-2010-projection-to-actual.html

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1089596
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089546
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1089533
    Marr,
    I completely disagree. I don't believe that DT is an issue for us at all. Yes we don't have a run stuffing DT like PHAT Pat on our roster but the tandem of Kenndey, Evans and Guion was good enough to rank us 8th overall in D. I like to point out that out offense was abysmal last season so our true defensive rank is even lower. DT is the on position that is not an issue for us. I don't understand why you are unwilling to ahve the Vikes give a kid like Guion a shot to prove what they saw in him. You seem to only like drafting and then discarding.
    You do realize that when Phat Pat wasn't on the field we moved K-dubb over to the 0 tech right. When you did that, you basically took your DT playmaker out of the mix.

    In short, JK, Evans and Guion were not good enough or they wouldn't have had to rotate K-dubb over there.

    I'm suprised that you, of all posters on here, missed that this year.

    In short, 0 tech guys that can play that role in a 4-3 are real hard to find and are usually gone early on. If your sitting there at 12 and all the good QB's are gone, you have a deep draft at OT and WR, why not grab that DT?


    Look at our real issues.
    WR QB TE OL (Depth), Saftey
    @ WR we have no drpth. Percy has been proven to be MIA for a few games a season and Rice may never be the same. These are starters.

    QB - We have two on roster ( a converted WR and some other guy)


    TE - If Shank goes down god help us.
    OL - See Shank but replace his name with any of the starters. Have I mentioned that your boy Sully is not the answer and I will like to point out that running lanes seem to be lacking since Birk left.

    Saftey, Just bad. Really, really bad. Terrible angles, no plays on the ball, few if any passes broken up.

    How exactly is our poor DB play the lines fault. We don't make plays on the ball when pressure is there. We simply suck in the secondary.
    I hear ya and agree with your concerns at all area, however, as I said above, its has to do with who is available and how deep the draft is in each class.

    WR. This class has starting caliber/impact players into the 4th round this year. Why take one with 12 if you can get one in a lower round? You still get your WR and he won't cost you and arm and a leg when you are resigning after his rookie contract.

    TE. I don't think you base your number 12 draft pick based on a "He might get injured" concept. Second, most of the TE's in this class are either hybrid route runners with very few having any sort of "Inline" skills. The ones that do would be one hell of a reach at 12 IMHO. Again, why use a pick there on a TE?

    OL. I guess you missed my opinion on Pouncey. As I said to Mullett......Maybe you need to pay a bit more attention to what I'm typing/saying my friend. :P

    S. I wouldn't be apposed to taking a S. My only problem in that area is I haven't looked at any of them yet. Hell, I haven't really looked at many positions yet. If one drops there then I wouldn't slash my throat if one were taken.

    On a side note, our S play might not look so bad if the bigs up front were doing their job first.
    I think you missunderstood my listing of the positions. I wasn't saying we needed to address these with the 12 overall pick, but instead I was ranking them as a priority over a DL.

    With the 12th Pick
    I would like in this order

    1) One of the top 3 Qbs (might have to wait on combine to see these guys) ( Mallet, Gibson, Cam)

    2) A rare freak who has fallen thanks to God (AJ Green, Peterson, Fairley)

    3) One of the Top 3 OTs in the Draft.

    4) Replacement LB for Leber

    5) DL

    6) Trade back to the end of the 1st and acquire an extra 2nd round pick.
    I don't think you lost me and I tend to agree with your ranking, however, I just took it one step further and adjusted those rankings based on what it looks like will be available.

    Again, using the OT vs NT discussion point......If there are only 2 in the draft that are viable options and both are first rounders, they won't be available in the later rounds. Result, you don't fix your NT issue.

    As I said, you opt to take the NT at 12 and get a OT in a later round that is of the same caliber as the OT you would have taken with 12.


    I also believe that you should draft on what if a guy gets injuried. I believe that teams do not are caught with their pants down come when an injury does happen. We couldn't survive the loss of Griffen, but the pack was able to survive the lost of several key defenders this season.
    Again, I will agree with you here, but only if you are set with your starters and are only looking at depth. I fear that we will be looking for alot of kids to take the role as starer (before they are ready) next year from this class.

    If that is the case, then you don't waste a pick on a kid if you have a viable starter, just cause he might get hurt. Rationale is you have roster positions were you don't have a starter already and no one got hurt.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089501
    12. Minnesota Vikings - Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska Cornhuskers: 3 The Vikings drafted a cornerback in the 2nd round last year by the name of Chris Cook. Cook could be a starter this year and have a long, successful career. They could get Amukamara to learn behind the talented, but aging Antoine Winfield on the other side and slowly groom him to replace Winfield. Minnesota could also look for their quarterback of the future here as well.

    Previous Pick: Nick Solder, OT, Colorado
    Other possibilities: Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada; Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
    NFL Mock Draft 2.0
    Mystifies me why anyone would think we would go ahead and draft a CB. Our issues on defense aren't CB related, they are DL along with injuries at our CB position related..
    Our CB's didn't play very well last year. I know Ced was hurt, but Asher Allen, Lito, Walker, etc. should never see the field on a good team. Prince would bolster this lineup and allow Winfield to play the nickel more like Woodson does with GB. If he is there, I won't be surprised if we go after him.

  8. #28
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1089597
    I think our scheme is primed and ready for a change to a 2 gap scheme. The fact that Kevin Williams had knee surgery this season is to no surprise. He looked slow and less explosive off the ball this season than in the past. I believe Fraiser saw this and realized that Evans and Kennedy are a bit more explosive off the ball than Williams this season.

    A bigger DL issue is the fact that Allen refuses to move around. because of this teams always know where to send help.
    Two real good discussion points in there (Kdubb surgery/JA movement) aside from the comment about moving to a 2 gap scheme.

    Lets ask the question on the 2 gap first. Are you contending that we move to a 3-4 or are you just saying that we don't line a 0 technique up on the C (or shade a bit) in a 4-3?

    With respect to the JA point. I remember when he played at KC he played both ends. Heck, I even remember how excited I was when we got him and got flamed on here when I talked about him playing both ends. Most yutz's on here thought I was nuts when I started talking about putting a pass rushing RDE at the LDE side.

    Long story short, I'm not so sure he won't rotate, but rather, think Leslie wouldn't rotate him.

    Rationale behind that is we saw alot of the DE's rotating when Pagac took over. Everson went off a couple of times when he was on the RDE side with Ray or Rob at the LDE spot and I saw Rob get off a couple of times when Everson or Ray were on the LDE side.

    Wasn't aware that K-dubb had to have surgery. I wonder if K-dubbs knee injury was something he had all year? Might make more sense for his drop off than my juicing accusations.

    Question begs, if his knee was that sore, why was he even in there?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    You could probably pick up Justin Harrell for free.

    Don't laugh, free is a good number.

    Remember, he isn't a "bust" due to his play on the field, he's a bust due to the injuries, and the BIG problem (back) looks "cured". He left this time because of his knee. He was most definitely in our (3-4) rotation as a DE, and he could be a DT in your 4-3.

    Stop laughing, he'd be free! He cost us 8 million! and a 16th !

  10. #30
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    Re: "Mock Drafts I Like/Find Interesting" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "gamecocksbaseball31" #1089628
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1089501
    12. Minnesota Vikings - Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska Cornhuskers: 3 The Vikings drafted a cornerback in the 2nd round last year by the name of Chris Cook. Cook could be a starter this year and have a long, successful career. They could get Amukamara to learn behind the talented, but aging Antoine Winfield on the other side and slowly groom him to replace Winfield. Minnesota could also look for their quarterback of the future here as well.

    Previous Pick: Nick Solder, OT, Colorado
    Other possibilities: Colin Kaepernick, QB, Nevada; Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
    NFL Mock Draft 2.0
    Mystifies me why anyone would think we would go ahead and draft a CB. Our issues on defense aren't CB related, they are DL along with injuries at our CB position related..
    Our CB's didn't play very well last year. I know Ced was hurt, but Asher Allen, Lito, Walker, etc. should never see the field on a good team. Prince would bolster this lineup and allow Winfield to play the nickel more like Woodson does with GB. If he is there, I won't be surprised if we go after him.
    I have started to look at the CB's. I don't think Prince will be there at 12 my friend especially if Peterson goes in the top 5 as most think he will.

    As to the CB play. I think you really need to look hard at a couple of things when you say our CBs didn't play well.

    a. Who was out there. In most games, we had our backups starting.
    b. What did teams do with them out there? In most instances teams didn't throw the ball but elected to run against us when clearly the talking heads said they shouldn't be doing it.
    c. Were we ranked with respect to pass defense this year.

    Completions against - 13th
    Yards against - 9th (6.7 Yards)

    You would think that both of those catagories would be alot higher considering the scheme is to let them catch it then tackle if the CB's played so bad.

    Are we a shutdown team with our CB's? No. Do we see alot of INT's? No, but considering the scheme these kids are asked to play and how well they shut down all the big name receivers the faced, with very little pressure from the front 4, I wouldn't say they played bad this year.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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