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  1. #31
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "marshallvike" #1094479
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094455
    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094451
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094447
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094444
    Quote Originally Posted by "jargomcfargo" #1094441
    Quote Originally Posted by "midgensa" #1094434
    With the No. 12 pick in the draft the Minnesota Vikings select ...

    Jake Locker, QB-Washington

    I think he is our target and we will reach to get him. The one thing we are hoping for is that Julio Jones falls to this spot, or even Nick Fairley ... if they do we will have solid trade offers to move back and still likely be able to get Locker/Mallet which I think is who we are targeting.
    You would pass up Jones for Locker?

    I don't believe I would pass up Fairley either.

    What is it about Locker that makes you think he is a sure thing?
    With Quarterbacks especially, there's no such thing as a sure thing. Even gusy like Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford had alot of doubters. But, at this point, I want to take a risk. I want to shoot for a top prospect. Pro scouts and analysts obviously believe this guy has the tools to be a good QB, otherwise they wouldn't rate him so high. Whether he'll actually live up to his potential, who knows. But I'm tired of settling for crappy 2nd-4th round QB's, and drafting positions we don't need.

    Since 1961, we've drafted TWO(2) first round quarterbacks, Tommy Kramer and Daunte Culpepper.

    We have rarely really grown our own QB's. We either reach for late rounders, or sign old free agents to fill in for a few years. Some of our best QB's in Vikings history have been stop-gap players.

    In fact, looking at QB's who made an NFCC or better:

    Joe Kapp (Old FA, 1970 NFL Champ winner)
    Fran Tarkenton (2nd rounder, 1973, 1974, 1976 NFCC)
    Tommy Kramer(First Rounder, 1987 NFCC)
    Randall Cunningham(Old Vet FA, 1998 NFCC)
    Daunte Culpepper(First rounder, 2000 NFCC)
    Brett Favre(Old FA, 2009 NFCC)

    Looking at our performance, of players who have made an NFCC or better, 2/6 of them were first rounders, 3/6 were drafted in the first 32 picks
    Other than Tark, we have NEVER had a franchise QB. Culpepper was looking like the guy to maybe take us to the next level, but he just imploded.

    Back to my point, I want a QB. I want us to try. If we miss, then we miss. It sucks, but I'd rather risk it than go for a 'sure thing injured player' who gets 16 sacks a year and finish 9-7 and miss the playoffs every year.


    Great WR's are useless without a QB. Look at Fitzgerald. Arguably the best WR in the game right now. Why aren't the Cards winning? Because a great WR doesn't win championships. A great QB can win championships though.
    The truth is we haven't drafted a franchise QB any more than we have because we just don't finish with a bad enough record to be in a position to draft the real blue chipper sand the FO for decades has seemed content to rely on experience over youth.Since the mid 80's when we went 3-13 under Steckel, we have never finished worse than 5-11 and that was twice. Other than that we seem to be a 6-10 to 10-6 club for the most part with a few flyers thrown in there every half decade. That doesn't put us in a place to draft too many franchise QB's on the board as the BPA when we draft.In the times when we were in position we either had a QB already or there was a higher rated player at another position on the board.

    One little thing though. We have drafted and developed several QB's that have been very good payers.

    Wade Wilson
    Brad Johnson
    Tommy Kramer
    Rich Gannon.

    Those guys were all drafted by the Vikings and every one of them made the pro bowl and two of them were SB participants with Brad winning one.

    If you really want us to go after a top notch QB then you might want to look at tanking the franchise for 4-5 years to get the top pick in the draft and then building from there.

    Trading up doesn't exist in your world?
    Oh yeah, you could always trade all of your picks to move up I suppose. I believe the Saints did that to get Ricky Williams and that one really worked out well for them. Heck, we could even trade for one just like we did to get Herschel Walker ans that one put us over the top too.

    How many picks are you willing to give up in order to move up to the top spot in the draft?
    So you are of the belief the only way to trade into one of the top spots is to trade away all of your picks?
    Hell, I don't think that is exactly what I said but maybe start out by answering this one:
    How many picks are you willing to give up in order to move up to the top spot in the draft?

  2. #32
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094481
    Hell, I don't think that is exactly what I said but maybe start out by answering this one:
    How many picks are you willing to give up in order to move up to the top spot in the draft?
    The thing is, we don't need the top pick.

    If Carolina doesn't pick QB with #1, and one of Newton or Gabbert is around near 5, trading up is doable.

    Following the Draft pick value chart, we've got #12(1200) and #43(470), Those picks alone, by following the chart give us 1670 points, good enough for 6th pick, (5th pick is 1700, and probably not completely out of the question) If it cost us only two picks to get a guy like Gabbert, I'd say that's a no brainer.

  3. #33
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094485
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094481
    Hell, I don't think that is exactly what I said but maybe start out by answering this one:
    How many picks are you willing to give up in order to move up to the top spot in the draft?
    The thing is, we don't need the top pick.

    If Carolina doesn't pick QB with #1, and one of Newton or Gabbert is around near 5, trading up is doable.

    Following the Draft pick value chart, we've got #12(1200) and #43(470), Those picks alone, by following the chart give us 1670 points, good enough for 6th pick, (5th pick is 1700, and probably not completely out of the question) If it cost us only two picks to get a guy like Gabbert, I'd say that's a no brainer.
    So basically what you are saying is that getting Gabbert is worth not having a single pick until the 4th?

    Yeah, that is really going to take us places.

    So from the 4th round forward we will be able to address the OL, Dl, Secondary, OLB etc with guys who will be on the roster and productive over the next few years? Good luck with that one.

  4. #34
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094494
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094485
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094481
    Hell, I don't think that is exactly what I said but maybe start out by answering this one:
    How many picks are you willing to give up in order to move up to the top spot in the draft?
    The thing is, we don't need the top pick.

    If Carolina doesn't pick QB with #1, and one of Newton or Gabbert is around near 5, trading up is doable.

    Following the Draft pick value chart, we've got #12(1200) and #43(470), Those picks alone, by following the chart give us 1670 points, good enough for 6th pick, (5th pick is 1700, and probably not completely out of the question) If it cost us only two picks to get a guy like Gabbert, I'd say that's a no brainer.
    So basically what you are saying is that getting Gabbert is worth not having a single pick until the 4th?

    Yeah, that is really going to take us places.

    So from the 4th round forward we will be able to address the OL, Dl, Secondary, OLB etc with guys who will be on the roster and productive over the next few years? Good luck with that one.
    There are some of us that believe that we don't need to address many of these areas with high draft picks. Is it worth trading up to get a Franchise QB? Hell yes. Say what you want but teams that get it right....are way better off. Last season we spent a 2nd and a 3rd to draft a back up running back....but you are against spending a 2nd for a Franchise QB?

  5. #35
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094494
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094485
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1094481
    Hell, I don't think that is exactly what I said but maybe start out by answering this one:
    How many picks are you willing to give up in order to move up to the top spot in the draft?
    The thing is, we don't need the top pick.

    If Carolina doesn't pick QB with #1, and one of Newton or Gabbert is around near 5, trading up is doable.

    Following the Draft pick value chart, we've got #12(1200) and #43(470), Those picks alone, by following the chart give us 1670 points, good enough for 6th pick, (5th pick is 1700, and probably not completely out of the question) If it cost us only two picks to get a guy like Gabbert, I'd say that's a no brainer.
    So basically what you are saying is that getting Gabbert is worth not having a single pick until the 4th?

    Yeah, that is really going to take us places.

    So from the 4th round forward we will be able to address the OL, Dl, Secondary, OLB etc with guys who will be on the roster and productive over the next few years? Good luck with that one.
    You make it sound much worse than it is. Before, we have two picks, after we'll have one high pick, which we can use on a QB who has a good shot at being a franchise-type player. Worth the risk IMO.

    Besides, we have a whole bunch of 4-7th rounders, we can probably still trade back up into the third if we feel necessary.

    If we come away from the draft with 3 or 4 players that we really wanted who will contribute for years, that's better than most drafts any team has.

  6. #36
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094471
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1094458
    BPA Regardless of position, if they pick at 12.

    I'd hate for them to reach for a QB at 12 who's slated to go late first or second round. If their hearts set at taking a QB in the first, trade up or down to make it happen where the player is worth the pick.

    With FA not beginning until after the draft, we are in a bad situation. We certainly can't bank on getting a damn good QB out of this years QB FA pool and they certainly shouldn't be banking on getting McNabb or Kolb when they aren't even FA's.
    Our FO rarely drafts BPA... We draft for need. Sometimes that goes together but.... it's never purely BPA.
    Adrian Peterson comes to mind.

    With as many voids or holes that the Vikings have needed to fill come draft day, BPA (which is arguable) has filled a lot of those needs. K-Will & Greenway etc..

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  7. #37
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "kevoncox" #1094498

    There are some of us that believe that we don't need to address many of these areas with high draft picks.
    So you consider 2nd and 3rd round picks as high picks?

    You think we will find the players we need in rounds 4-7 even though we have rarely done that very thing in the past 5 years?


    Is it worth trading up to get a Franchise QB? Hell yes. Say what you want but teams that get it right....are way better off.
    What teams specifically are you referring to who used their top picks to move up in the draft and ended up better off because of the move?




    Last season we spent a 2nd and a 3rd to draft a back up running back....but you are against spending a 2nd for a Franchise QB?
    Hell yes and I was against moving up to get him too. If you are going to use the Toby trade to justify this position IMHO you just lost.

  8. #38
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1094499
    You make it sound much worse than it is. Before, we have two picks, after we'll have one high pick, which we can use on a QB who has a good shot at being a franchise-type player. Worth the risk IMO.
    There is no good information that Gabbert will be anything other than the next Tim Couch, Alex Smith etc. Except for the fact that the pro sports media machine had to select someone as the next NFL marketing product there is nothing that separates him from the guys who will still be on the board at 12. If you feel like burning picks to get a player of the same caliber as those we can get without it is a good move I guess we will agree to disagree.It is rare for a team to move up and take a player as lowly regarded as either Newton or Gabbert and end up better off for it. If you disagree then feel free to give me some examples of teams who moved up to take a player with the same credentials who benefited from the deal.

    Besides, we have a whole bunch of 4-7th rounders, we can probably still trade back up into the third if we feel necessary.
    Yeah, that is going to be a great idea. Take your first and second to get one player and a few later round players to get one in the third. Sort of a 4 or 5 for 2 deal.

    If we come away from the draft with 3 or 4 players that we really wanted who will contribute for years, that's better than most drafts any team has.
    We don't even come away with that many players when we have all of our picks and now you think we can trade picks so we have fewer draft picks and still get more contributing players?

    I don't believe it for a minute.

  9. #39
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    What is it about Gabbert that makes him so much better than Locker? Or, for that matter, Mallet or Ponder or Kaepernick? ALL of the QBs coming out this year have question marks. ALL of them are considered developmental guys. And most of them played in non-NFL style systems.

    So, I'm not saying, "absolutely don't trade up," just that we do have other needs, and I'm far from convinced that moving up 6 slots will help us more than moving back and gaining a pick instead when the players seem to me to be pretty durn close in ability anyway.

    Besides, most mockers think the top two guys are going to be gone before the fifth pick. I think Cam goes No.1 cuz he's the athlete with the most potential who has the history of winning and will sell the most jerseys/give fans hope again. Clausen seems like a career backup to me. Then, even the Broncos have been checking QBs and all of the teams picking 3-5 need one badly. If Gabbert is there at 5, he will most likely be a Cardinal, and I don't see either making it to 6.

    Sorry to rain on your parade, but it just doesn't look like trading up is going to have much chance of helping us in this situation.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

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  10. #40
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    Re: The Minnesota Vikings Select....

    I would like to see us take Jones with the number 12 pick mainly because we dont know what is going to happen with Rice. Either way we win with this pick.

    In the second round I want to see us pull the trigger and Draft Mallet, I really like the idea of a 6'7" QB with our O-Line.

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