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Thread: Mckinnie tidbit

  1. #21
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    I always question statistics because when interpretated improperly, they can be skewed to say gol 'darnit near anything.
    So I thought I would take a look at his data myself.

    I took the links he had, and found 69 OL who either started more than 8 games in 2007, or were the starter and got sidelined for more than half the season due to injury.
    Slightly different than his 75, but he may have been more lenient in who made the selection.
    I only looked at sacks allowed because of time constraints (Hey, I do have a job...)

    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game.
    I ran a couple of statistical tests, and McKinnie's career sack rate was significantly greater than the average.
    Even if you take the last two years of his career (the ones with Hutch), he still had a sack rate of .4375.
    Not as significant, but still greater than the mean and median.

    The poster from scount.com was correct.
    McKinnie is a serviceable LT when it comes to pass protection, but that is it.
    He is not worthless, but definately overpaid.

    The part that we cannot compute statistically is his contribution to the run game.
    That is something else to keep in mind.
    But at this point I am no longer sold in any way on McKinnie.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #22
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I always question statistics because when interpretated improperly, they can be skewed to say gol 'darnit near anything.
    So I thought I would take a look at his data myself.
    Lies, damn lies and statistics, eh, NP?

    I took the links he had, and found 69 OL who either started more than 8 games in 2007, or were the starter and got sidelined for more than half the season due to injury.
    Slightly different than his 75, but he may have been more lenient in who made the selection.
    I only looked at sacks allowed because of time constraints (Hey, I do have a job...)

    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game.
    I ran a couple of statistical tests, and McKinnie's career sack rate was significantly greater than the average.
    Even if you take the last two years of his career (the ones with Hutch), he still had a sack rate of .4375.
    Not as significant, but still greater than the mean and median.

    The poster from scount.com was correct.
    McKinnie is a serviceable LT when it comes to pass protection, but that is it.
    He is not worthless, but definately overpaid.

    The part that we cannot compute statistically is his contribution to the run game.
    That is something else to keep in mind.
    But at this point I am no longer sold in any way on McKinnie.
    I haven't been sold on him for years.
    He's always seemed to give up the big sacks.
    Move him to RT and draft the future at LT!

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  3. #23
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I always question statistics because when interpretated improperly, they can be skewed to say gol 'darnit near anything.
    So I thought I would take a look at his data myself.

    I took the links he had, and found 69 OL who either started more than 8 games in 2007, or were the starter and got sidelined for more than half the season due to injury.
    Slightly different than his 75, but he may have been more lenient in who made the selection.
    I only looked at sacks allowed because of time constraints (Hey, I do have a job...)

    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game.
    I ran a couple of statistical tests, and McKinnie's career sack rate was significantly greater than the average.
    Even if you take the last two years of his career (the ones with Hutch), he still had a sack rate of .4375.
    Not as significant, but still greater than the mean and median.

    The poster from scount.com was correct.
    McKinnie is a serviceable LT when it comes to pass protection, but that is it.
    He is not worthless, but definately overpaid.

    The part that we cannot compute statistically is his contribution to the run game.
    That is something else to keep in mind.
    But at this point I am no longer sold in any way on McKinnie.
    Me too im no longer sold on him and actually i really want to get a LT in the draft now

  4. #24
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I always question statistics because when interpretated improperly, they can be skewed to say gol 'darnit near anything.
    So I thought I would take a look at his data myself.

    I took the links he had, and found 69 OL who either started more than 8 games in 2007, or were the starter and got sidelined for more than half the season due to injury.
    Slightly different than his 75, but he may have been more lenient in who made the selection.
    I only looked at sacks allowed because of time constraints (Hey, I do have a job...)

    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game.
    I ran a couple of statistical tests, and McKinnie's career sack rate was significantly greater than the average.
    Even if you take the last two years of his career (the ones with Hutch), he still had a sack rate of .4375.
    Not as significant, but still greater than the mean and median.

    The poster from scount.com was correct.
    McKinnie is a serviceable LT when it comes to pass protection, but that is it.
    He is not worthless, but definately overpaid.

    The part that we cannot compute statistically is his contribution to the run game.
    That is something else to keep in mind.
    But at this point I am no longer sold in any way on McKinnie.
    Me too im no longer sold on him and actually i really want to get a LT in the draft now
    How does Jordan Gross of the Panthers compare?
    (Remember that proposed trade of CTay and McKinney for Gross and Peppers??)
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  5. #25
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    What's his batting average with bouncers heads compared to the league average ???







    ;D

  6. #26
    dcboardr41 is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "vikinggreg" wrote:
    What's his batting average with bouncers heads compared to the league average ???







    ;D
    ita below the mendoza line
    :-

    Pissing on the Pack since 08'

  7. #27
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I always question statistics because when interpretated improperly, they can be skewed to say gol 'darnit near anything.
    So I thought I would take a look at his data myself.

    I took the links he had, and found 69 OL who either started more than 8 games in 2007, or were the starter and got sidelined for more than half the season due to injury.
    Slightly different than his 75, but he may have been more lenient in who made the selection.
    I only looked at sacks allowed because of time constraints (Hey, I do have a job...)

    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game.
    I ran a couple of statistical tests, and McKinnie's career sack rate was significantly greater than the average.
    Even if you take the last two years of his career (the ones with Hutch), he still had a sack rate of .4375.
    Not as significant, but still greater than the mean and median.

    The poster from scount.com was correct.
    McKinnie is a serviceable LT when it comes to pass protection, but that is it.
    He is not worthless, but definately overpaid.

    The part that we cannot compute statistically is his contribution to the run game.
    That is something else to keep in mind.
    But at this point I am no longer sold in any way on McKinnie.
    Me too im no longer sold on him and actually i really want to get a LT in the draft now
    How does Jordan Gross of the Panthers compare?
    (Remember that proposed trade of CTay and McKinney for Gross and Peppers??)
    .2969 sacks per start.
    Not significantly better than the mean (statistically speaking), but definately an improvement over McKinnie in this particular stat.

    Granted there are other variables that have an impact - this is not a truly valid analysis because we are taking stats earned in similar but different circumstances, and they are most likely not statistically equal circumstances.
    But non-statistically speaking, Gross would be an upgrade.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #28
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    Thanks for the post, these stats were really interesting.
    Why does the Washington Post keep all the best obscure stats, while no one else does?

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    How does Jordan Gross of the Panthers compare?
    (Remember that proposed trade of CTay and McKinney for Gross and Peppers??)
    Gross has started 80 games since he came into the league.
    In that time he has given up 23.75 sacks, or just under 0.30 sacks/game.
    His worst season was his second, when he gave up 7 sacks in 2004.
    Last year he gave up 3 sacks.

    Back to McKinnie - I think it's an interesting coincidence that the first three years of his career were pretty poor.
    In those three years he gave up just under 0.60 sacks/game.
    Then, in 2005, he managed to allow only 4.75 sacks, or about 0.30 sacks/game (and at the same time cut his penalties in half).


    At the beginnning of the 2006 season, he signed his contract extension.
    He's been significantly worse than that year since then, although he is still significantly better than those first three years.

    Now, there are a lot of things that could affect the sack statistic.
    QB play is a big one.
    Consider that Tarvaris got sacked about 6.1% of the times he dropped back this year according to this link, while Bollinger and Holcomb each got sacked upwards of 12% of the times they dropped back.
    Another factor is obviously the competition you're facing, which changes every year.

    Nonetheless, I thought it was interesting seeing how the numbers changed over the years.

    By the way, Cook also allowed 7 sacks last year, which is about 0.44 sacks/game link.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  9. #29
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "DustinDupont" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    I always question statistics because when interpretated improperly, they can be skewed to say gol 'darnit near anything.
    So I thought I would take a look at his data myself.

    I took the links he had, and found 69 OL who either started more than 8 games in 2007, or were the starter and got sidelined for more than half the season due to injury.
    Slightly different than his 75, but he may have been more lenient in who made the selection.
    I only looked at sacks allowed because of time constraints (Hey, I do have a job...)

    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game.
    I ran a couple of statistical tests, and McKinnie's career sack rate was significantly greater than the average.
    Even if you take the last two years of his career (the ones with Hutch), he still had a sack rate of .4375.
    Not as significant, but still greater than the mean and median.

    The poster from scount.com was correct.
    McKinnie is a serviceable LT when it comes to pass protection, but that is it.
    He is not worthless, but definately overpaid.

    The part that we cannot compute statistically is his contribution to the run game.
    That is something else to keep in mind.
    But at this point I am no longer sold in any way on McKinnie.
    Me too im no longer sold on him and actually i really want to get a LT in the draft now
    How does Jordan Gross of the Panthers compare?
    (Remember that proposed trade of CTay and McKinney for Gross and Peppers??)
    .2969 sacks per start.
    Not significantly better than the mean (statistically speaking), but definately an improvement over McKinnie in this particular stat.

    Granted there are other variables that have an impact - this is not a truly valid analysis because we are taking stats earned in similar but different circumstances, and they are most likely not statistically equal circumstances.
    But non-statistically speaking, Gross would be an upgrade.
    The Mean Sacks given up per start was .3858.
    The Median was .3926.
    Standard Deviation was 0.131727204.

    McKinnie gave up
    .5287 sacks per game
    .
    Nice work Paul...one more number to put this in perspective. McKinnie has allowed 37% more sacks per game than this mean. I've never been a big fan of his...especially in recent times with his other distractions.
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. - H.L. Mencken

    Come from the land of the ice and snow...

  10. #30
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    Re: Mckinnie tidbit

    "Overlord" wrote:
    Thanks for the post, these stats were really interesting.
    Why does the Washington Post keep all the best obscure stats, while no one else does?

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    How does Jordan Gross of the Panthers compare?
    (Remember that proposed trade of CTay and McKinney for Gross and Peppers??)
    Gross has started 80 games since he came into the league.
    In that time he has given up 23.75 sacks, or just under 0.30 sacks/game.
    His worst season was his second, when he gave up 7 sacks in 2004.
    Last year he gave up 3 sacks.

    Back to McKinnie - I think it's an interesting coincidence that the first three years of his career were pretty poor.
    In those three years he gave up just under 0.60 sacks/game.
    Then, in 2005, he managed to allow only 4.75 sacks, or about 0.30 sacks/game (and at the same time cut his penalties in half).


    At the beginnning of the 2006 season, he signed his contract extension.
    He's been significantly worse than that year since then, although he is still significantly better than those first three years.

    Now, there are a lot of things that could affect the sack statistic.
    QB play is a big one.
    Consider that Tarvaris got sacked about 6.1% of the times he dropped back this year according to this link, while Bollinger and Holcomb each got sacked upwards of 12% of the times they dropped back.
    Another factor is obviously the competition you're facing, which changes every year.

    Nonetheless, I thought it was interesting seeing how the numbers changed over the years.

    By the way, Cook also allowed 7 sacks last year, which is about 0.44 sacks/game link.
    Since Birk is questionable, according to some, this is becoming a comedy that isn't real funny!

    I would add that Cook had 7 allowed sacks despite a commitment by Kliensasser and sometimes Schiancoe to help him block on that side.
    My favorite 'Cook' play of the year was the final play where Tarvaris was sacked when one rusher came inside Cook and one rusher came outside Cook. He just stood there and didn't touch either one!

    Like my friend Singer, I also feel the O-line has been neglected in the draft and free agency since we got Hutch.
    They aren't a bad unit, but there is no depth.
    But what the hell, we still have the turnstile Hiks to take over for McKinnie!
    ???
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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