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  1. #31
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    I can understand being disappointed in a top 10 pick.
    But as far as top 10 pick disappointments go, I’d say Bryant McKinnie would be pretty low on that list.
    I’ll bet there are very few that live up to the “elite” hopes people come up with.


    I for one, believe this is the same for all positions not just OL in top 10 and really the whole draft.
    We as fans put so much on a 22 year old, just because he did well in college.
    So we think that automatically translates.
    There are very few Adrian Petersons out there.
    There a ton of guys like Carnell Williams, Eli Manning, Reggie Bush type players.
    These are all good, but not what we as fans made them out to be.


    We throw the word “elite” around a lot.
    Really if you look at it there a very few “elite” players all throughout the history of the sport.
    To me elite translates as completely dominant.
    And that is just crazy to expect out of a 18-22 year olds college resume.
    That’s why its funny to me when people talk about the surprises in drafts years down the road.
    To me, those happen a lot more than the expected “elite” living up to the bill.

  2. #32
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    1,206

    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Mr" wrote:
    So you’re saying if you were the coach.
    Then you would put a better pass blocking LT in that position, even if it meant giving up a better Run-blocker.
    Or would you just put him on LT for run plays and someone else at LT for pass plays, would a smart coach do that?
    Maybe I’m just more old-school thinking.
    But give me a run-blocker all day.
    Especially with the type of RB’s we have.

    I mean, believe me if there was a guy that blocked the run better than McKinnie and had better pass-protection skills I’d be all for it.
    I don’t think we have that on our team right now.

    Oh, I'd definitely go with the better pass protector.


    The problem is that there aren't enough guys that are better that you can go out and pick one up.
    Of the guys that actually are better, most/all of them are nearly as good or as good blocking in the run game as McKinnie.
    Again, it's not like Walter Jones, Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace, Jamaal Brown, Matt Light, Chad Clifton, and Flozell Adams aren't good run blockers.
    You just don't find guys that are great pass protectors but bad run blockers.


    Even if you did though, I would prefer to have a great pass protector.
    The difference between a good run blocker and a poor one might be one block a game that he misses.
    Maybe that's 100 yards in a season that it costs you.
    The advantages of keeping your QB off his back - more time to make throws, the ability to let longer routes develop, keeping the QB healthy - are much greater as a whole.

    As for expectations being too high, you're right.
    It is ridiculous to watch every year as about the top 75 players taken are labeled by the media as being instant fixes and future Pro Bowlers.
    Not going to happen for most of them.
    Nonetheless, those are the expectations that many people have for them.
    That McKinnie can be a top 15 left tackle (hard position) for five years and still be considered a disappointment by so many fans is proof of that.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  3. #33
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Mr" wrote:
    I can understand being disappointed in a top 10 pick.
    But as far as top 10 pick disappointments go, I’d say Bryant McKinnie would be pretty low on that list.
    I’ll bet there are very few that live up to the “elite” hopes people come up with.


    I for one, believe this is the same for all positions not just OL in top 10 and really the whole draft.
    We as fans put so much on a 22 year old, just because he did well in college.
    So we think that automatically translates.
    There are very few Adrian Petersons out there.
    There a ton of guys like Carnell Williams, Eli Manning, Reggie Bush type players.
    These are all good, but not what we as fans made them out to be.


    We throw the word “elite” around a lot.
    Really if you look at it there a very few “elite” players all throughout the history of the sport.
    To me elite translates as completely dominant.
    And that is just crazy to expect out of a 18-22 year olds college resume.
    That’s why its funny to me when people talk about the surprises in drafts years down the road.
    To me, those happen a lot more than the expected “elite” living up to the bill.
    I think with McKinnie its the fact that he has struggled with pass rushers when thats what we thought we drafted. I think there was pressure as it was said he gave up no sacks in college then gets to the Pro's and has 6 sack games.

    I don't believe the off the feild issues have helped McKinnie and his overal prospective of many fans. Although this would only be his first supension he's showed consistent patterns in terms of getting in trouble. His Work Ethic and Passion have also been questioned but at age 28 McKinnie finds himself in a good situation and a possible oportunity to "Grow Up". This is his first incident with Childress so it will be intristing to see the end results. I would hope that McKinnie realizes he has a real good opportunity to win alot of games here in the future and to improve by battling with Jared Allen for the next 4 to 5 years.

    In the end I think McKinnies future is based from what he's done since his incident to where we are now. Has McKinnie commited and shown the Passion to succeed to his abilities without the Mental mistakes on and off the field? Childress told Doctor Z he felt McKinnie was on the verge of a carear year, I'm hoping that Childress's evaluations are true and possible reason we didn't panack to get a LT in the Draft.

  4. #34
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
    jargomcfargo is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Overlord" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    So you’re saying if you were the coach.
    Then you would put a better pass blocking LT in that position, even if it meant giving up a better Run-blocker.
    Or would you just put him on LT for run plays and someone else at LT for pass plays, would a smart coach do that?
    Maybe I’m just more old-school thinking.
    But give me a run-blocker all day.
    Especially with the type of RB’s we have.

    I mean, believe me if there was a guy that blocked the run better than McKinnie and had better pass-protection skills I’d be all for it.
    I don’t think we have that on our team right now.

    Oh, I'd definitely go with the better pass protector.


    The problem is that there aren't enough guys that are better that you can go out and pick one up.
    Of the guys that actually are better, most/all of them are nearly as good or as good blocking in the run game as McKinnie.
    Again, it's not like Walter Jones, Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace, Jamaal Brown, Matt Light, Chad Clifton, and Flozell Adams aren't good run blockers.
    You just don't find guys that are great pass protectors but bad run blockers.


    Even if you did though, I would prefer to have a great pass protector.
    The difference between a good run blocker and a poor one might be one block a game that he misses.
    Maybe that's 100 yards in a season that it costs you.
    The advantages of keeping your QB off his back - more time to make throws, the ability to let longer routes develop, keeping the QB healthy - are much greater as a whole.

    As for expectations being too high, you're right.
    It is ridiculous to watch every year as about the top 75 players taken are labeled by the media as being instant fixes and future Pro Bowlers.
    Not going to happen for most of them.
    Nonetheless, those are the expectations that many people have for them.
    That McKinnie can be a top 15 left tackle (hard position) for five years and still be considered a disappointment by so many fans is proof of that.
    That's one heck of a fine post. After all, converting third downs is what seems to win football games from the offensive perspective.
    The Vikings led the league in rushing with an average of 5.2 yds / carry or something close to that.
    But their average on third down was less.
    So when it is third down and you need to convert to keep the ball,
    to have a chance to score, and at the same time giving your defense a rest, you need to be able to pass.

    Even when you have the best running back in the league, you need to be able to pass.
    So all that great run blocking equates to 8-8 as proven last year.

    So if a linemans weakness is pass blocking, that's a problem.

    Personally I feel McKinnie is only challenged by speed rushers. I think he pass protects adequately most of the time.

    One thing that bothered me the last two years was the failure of the coaching staff to recognize that he needed help at times and make that adjustment.

    Sorry , but that is the biggest problem I see with McKinnie.

    Every player has strengths and weaknesses.
    Great coaches find a way to adjust to compensate for the weakness and take advantage of the strengths. I think we are taking advantage of McKinnies strengths. Now we need to compensate for his weaknesses against speed rushers with tight end and back blocking help as well as quick passing schemes.

    I like the direction this team is heading. But I'm still waiting for great coaching!
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  5. #35
    AngloVike's Avatar
    AngloVike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: A learning experience as Allen and McKinnie go head-to-head

    "Mr" wrote:
    I can understand being disappointed in a top 10 pick.
    But as far as top 10 pick disappointments go, I’d say Bryant McKinnie would be pretty low on that list.
    I’ll bet there are very few that live up to the “elite” hopes people come up with.


    I for one, believe this is the same for all positions not just OL in top 10 and really the whole draft.
    We as fans put so much on a 22 year old, just because he did well in college.
    So we think that automatically translates.
    There are very few Adrian Petersons out there.
    There a ton of guys like Carnell Williams, Eli Manning, Reggie Bush type players.
    These are all good, but not what we as fans made them out to be.


    We throw the word “elite” around a lot.
    Really if you look at it there a very few “elite” players all throughout the history of the sport.
    To me elite translates as completely dominant.
    And that is just crazy to expect out of a 18-22 year olds college resume.
    That’s why its funny to me when people talk about the surprises in drafts years down the road.
    To me, those happen a lot more than the expected “elite” living up to the bill.
    Fair points indeed and you are correct in what yiu say. However many have put McKinnie up in the 'elite' group of LTs in the league - look at the people who got in such a tizzy when speculation started about him possibly copping a suspension from the league. Those that dared to suggest we should trade him or start looking for an alternative LT in the draft were told how he was an elite LT who is very very hard to replace. To me that suggests a certain level of play and expectation to have such a tag, unfortunately McKinnie only makes the good level and so is not worthy of that. His blocking skills may be good but being adequate at pass protecting is not sufficient - especially for the T that protects the QB's blind side and especially for a QB that is relatively inexperienced at the pro level.
    Time spent annoying a Packer fan is never time wasted...


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